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Cohen pleads guilty to false statements to Congress about Trump Tower Moscow project

So real news outlets reporting of the terrible and corrupt things the Trump administration does is “activism”, but Rush is just good ole fashioned entertainment? Wow.
No, Rush is also activism. I'm including him in MSM in that they all present their agendas. Rush's perspective is obviously different than what you get from most of the others. I understand that NONE of them are telling the whole truth. Do you?
 
In the meantime let's discuss every possible facet of any possible charge, spread gossip and hearsay, the unimpeachable testimony of pornstars and Twitter tweeters, leak after leak, but ignore the single point that there has been almost no evidence presented which supports any of this speculation from an identifiable, reliable source.

Sope came closest to admitting this when he suggested we wait till the report comes out. So, Sope and I will wait. It seems hard for the rest of you.
I don't know which speculation you're complaining about, but you'll search in vain for posts from me predicting what Mueller's report will say. And I don't know what a liberal analog to Limbaugh might be, but if there were one I wouldn't read, watch, or listen to it, let alone admit that it informed the basis for my understanding of anything.

Having said so, there is abundant publicly available evidence that Trump is a corrupt unfit imbecile and that Team Trump colluded with the Russians. Predictably, this doesn't concern you. I mean, it's not like Trump is thought to have done anything egregiously wrong, like lie about a blow job or use a private email server.
 
No, Rush is also activism. I'm including him in MSM in that they all present their agendas. Rush's perspective is obviously different than what you get from most of the others. I understand that NONE of them are telling the whole truth. Do you?
You're equating Rush Limbaugh and the New York Times. That is deeply stupid.
 
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You're equating Rush Limbaugh and the New York Times. That is deeply stupid.

It’s maddening. The left has nothing as terrible as Fox News, Rush or Brietbart. So naturally the consumers of the propaganda and conspiracy theories of those mediums equate them with the NYT, WAPO and ABC News. They just have to be equivalent, right?
 
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Publishing or otherwise using stolen information is not a crime. (Pentagon papers case) This is to be distinguished from possession of stolen property.
Your assertion is too broad for today's world of computer data. The Pentagon papers case occurred in 1971 and involved paper photocopies, not computer data or emails. There are a bizillion new statutes in the 47 years since then that describe crimes dealing with hacking, stealing passwords or otherwise using or accessing data from a computer without authorization.
 
In the meantime let's discuss every possible facet of any possible charge, spread gossip and hearsay, the unimpeachable testimony of pornstars and Twitter tweeters, leak after leak, but ignore the single point that there has been almost no evidence presented which supports any of this speculation from an identifiable, reliable source.

Sope came closest to admitting this when he suggested we wait till the report comes out. So, Sope and I will wait. It seems hard for the rest of you.
Here's an example why you're drawing so much criticism.

In the same post, you say both "there has
been almost no evidence presented which supports any of this speculation from an identifiable, reliable source" and then say you will "wait till the report comes out."

Your present conclusion that there is "almost no evidence" does not sound like an openminded guy who will "wait till the report comes out."
 
Posters like Hillz and CO serve a purpose. There will be a percentage of the population that will refuse to see any wrongdoing no matter what is in Mueller's report. The question will be, What is that percentage? I expect the Republican leadership will only move against Trump if the percentage of Trump's support dips below 30%. So what will it take to get there? I expect we'll continue to learn more to prove a variety of crimes occurred including lying to Congress/federal government officials, money laundering, tax evasion, and fraud. I will be surprised if Trump is a candidate in 2020. My guess is he'll decide not to run and once out of office, will be consumed with fighting a variety of criminal prosecutions. The future doesn't look bright for our current President. Unfortunately, we'll be left with 20+% of voters who will believe that Trump is being unfairly pursued.

That all depends on the context of Mueller’s report and whether or not it’s well nuanced.
 
I don't know which speculation you're complaining about, but you'll search in vain for posts from me predicting what Mueller's report will say. And I don't know what a liberal analog to Limbaugh might be, but if there were one I wouldn't read, watch, or listen to it, let alone admit that it informed the basis for my understanding of anything.

Having said so, there is abundant publicly available evidence that Trump is a corrupt unfit imbecile and that Team Trump colluded with the Russians. Predictably, this doesn't concern you. I mean, it's not like Trump is thought to have done anything egregiously wrong, like lie about a blow job or use a private email server.
Unfit and imbecile I get. Corrupt? I wouldn't be shocked, but needs to be proven.
 
Here's an example why you're drawing so much criticism.

In the same post, you say both "there has
been almost no evidence presented which supports any of this speculation from an identifiable, reliable source" and then say you will "wait till the report comes out."

Your present conclusion that there is "almost no evidence" does not sound like an openminded guy who will "wait till the report comes out."
Let's do an open-mindedness head count in this thread shall we? C'mon, man.
 
Your assertion is too broad for today's world of computer data. The Pentagon papers case occurred in 1971 and involved paper photocopies, not computer data or emails. There are a bizillion new statutes in the 47 years since then that describe crimes dealing with hacking, stealing passwords or otherwise using or accessing data from a computer without authorization.

That's all correct. I assume, without actually doing the research, that selling computer identity information is a crime. However, I think the Pentagon Papers case is still good law as far as information in the public interest is concerned. If the law were otherwise, all the those who publish based on leaks and whistleblowers would be at risk.
 
So you respond with "What about all the other posters?" ?
I claim to be at least as open minded as anyone else here about the issue. I will declare that if he actually did what speculation suggests, we should, ahem, lock him up.
 
I never did that. You are a liar and a scoundrel. Good day, sir.


I said good day!
You equated Limbaugh with “real news sources” in the “MSM”. This is a category error. Even MSNBC is light years beyond Limbaugh.

The problem with the Conservamedia universe isn’t that it’s conservative. The problem is that it offers a Westworld infotainment cocoon where any nutty thing conservatives want to believe is true. It isn’t the sort of place anyone seeking objective reality would go. But it’s where way too many conservatives do in fact go.
 
Posters like Hillz and CO serve a purpose. There will be a percentage of the population that will refuse to see any wrongdoing no matter what is in Mueller's report. The question will be, What is that percentage? I expect the Republican leadership will only move against Trump if the percentage of Trump's support dips below 30%. So what will it take to get there? I expect we'll continue to learn more to prove a variety of crimes occurred including lying to Congress/federal government officials, money laundering, tax evasion, and fraud. I will be surprised if Trump is a candidate in 2020. My guess is he'll decide not to run and once out of office, will be consumed with fighting a variety of criminal prosecutions. The future doesn't look bright for our current President. Unfortunately, we'll be left with 20+% of voters who will believe that Trump is being unfairly pursued.

I said months ago, maybe a year ago, that I don't think Trump will run in 2020. I haven't backed off and stand by that. My reasons might be a little different from yours, but I think all the existing crap, plus more as the Dems promised will be a factor. However, I disagree with your view of a variety of criminal prosecutions upon leaving office. What would be the point of hounding a septuagenarian other than schadenfreude? Trump certainly is not in Madoff's class.

I don't know what you mean by your comment that I would refuse to see wrongdoing no matter what is in Mueller's report. I'd be surprised if there were any wrongdoing that would merit a Trump criminal prosecution. That said, wrongdoing in the impeachment context is relative to one's politics. So you and I may not agree about that.
 
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That's all correct. I assume, without actually doing the research, that selling computer identity information is a crime. However, I think the Pentagon Papers case is still good law as far as information in the public interest is concerned. If the law were otherwise, all the those who publish based on leaks and whistleblowers would be at risk.
Consideration of leaks seems irrelevant here, because Podesta's emails weren't leaked -- they were stolen through use of a phishing attack that he fell for, as I read the story some time ago.

Nor do whistleblower/qui tam statutes (which have been around since Abraham Lincoln) seem applicable here, because no one with legitimate access to the Democrats' information gave the information/ emails to a prosecutor or other authority for possible legal action by that authority.

Also, publication of the Pentagon Papers was by the New York Times as I recall, not by a political opponent or foreign government for personal benefit.

Keep an eye on what Mueller does to Trump Jr. and the others who were going to the Trump Tower meeting to get dirt on Hillary because I think these legal issues are more likely to arise in that context than the other situations that we know about,
 
You equated Limbaugh with “real news sources” in the “MSM”. This is a category error. Even MSNBC is light years beyond Limbaugh.

The problem with the Conservamedia universe isn’t that it’s conservative. The problem is that it offers a Westworld infotainment cocoon where any nutty thing conservatives want to believe is true. It isn’t the sort of place anyone seeking objective reality would go. But it’s where way too many conservatives do in fact go.

If more Democrats watched, listened to, and read Conservamedia they wouldn't believe this nonsense.
 
Consideration of leaks seems irrelevant here, because Podesta's emails weren't leaked -- they were stolen through use of a phishing attack that he fell for, as I read the story some time ago.

I assume any leak is stolen information. You raise an interesting question about whether Big Media Inc. has a privilege to publish stolen info that somebody like Julian Assange doesn't have. If Assange can be prosecuted, I think all media will sit up and take notice.
 
In the meantime let's discuss every possible facet of any possible charge, spread gossip and hearsay, the unimpeachable testimony of pornstars and Twitter tweeters, leak after leak, but ignore the single point that there has been almost no evidence presented which supports any of this speculation from an identifiable, reliable source.

Sope came closest to admitting this when he suggested we wait till the report comes out. So, Sope and I will wait. It seems hard for the rest of you.

Well, the obstruction of justice is in plain sight. Muller didn’t even need to question Trump on that- Trump did enough to implicate himself. And I’m sure McGann helped fill in any blanks. Nixon has nothing on Trump when it comes to the charge.

Only, Nixon didn’t tweet it to the entire world, or give TV interviews that admit that he fired Comey “because of the Russia thing”. Even if he had Twitter, I doubt he would’ve been that blantantly obvious about obstructing.

That’s just part of it.

Go read some “regular” news sources, and some left leaning stuff, and then tell me there hadn’t been any evidence.

It’s there- you just don’t want to see it. Do you really think Rush is going to tell you about it? He makes his living off defending the president, and making you angry. The truth doesn’t factor in.

I used to wonder how people voted for Trump- it was obvious that he was unfit, and was a complete crook. Then, I stared checking out the right wing media sites- and they either ignored the stories, or made excuses for them (minimized them).

Then it all made sense. Folks literally didn’t have a clue about anything of the things that were coming out.

I have a feeling about 30% of the country is going to be really pissed off once they realize they’ve been lied to the entire time. Because the report is going to be REALLY damning. Hell, what we already know is horrible.

I promise not to say “I told you so” when everything comes to light. And, I won’t even mind if someone here tells me that- I realize I’m speculating. But it’s based on a ton of reports- from journalists that actually have standards, and can lose their job for errors. A little bit different than the stuff from the right wing opinion sites.
 
You equated Limbaugh with “real news sources” in the “MSM”. This is a category error. Even MSNBC is light years beyond Limbaugh.

The problem with the Conservamedia universe isn’t that it’s conservative. The problem is that it offers a Westworld infotainment cocoon where any nutty thing conservatives want to believe is true. It isn’t the sort of place anyone seeking objective reality would go. But it’s where way too many conservatives do in fact go.

I think we have crossed the chasm of where 'facts' are now basically just 'opinions.'

I blame this on the flattening out of media and has been accelerated by this current (fake) POTUS with his constant delegitamising of science, credible MSM and even his own civil servants.

Good luck over there, going forward and Post-Trump.
 
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You sure you want to play this game? I wonder how many Republicans don’t believe in dinosaurs?

There is an irony here.

They don't believe in data driven conclusions/projections like climate change or Mueller's investigation -- but takes their religious beliefs and/or Trump's conversion like gospel and factual.
 
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Consideration of leaks seems irrelevant here, because Podesta's emails weren't leaked -- they were stolen through use of a phishing attack that he fell for, as I read the story some time ago.

Nor do whistleblower/qui tam statutes (which have been around since Abraham Lincoln) seem applicable here, because no one with legitimate access to the Democrats' information gave the information/ emails to a prosecutor or other authority for possible legal action by that authority.

Also, publication of the Pentagon Papers was by the New York Times as I recall, not by a political opponent or foreign government for personal benefit.

Keep an eye on what Mueller does to Trump Jr. and the others who were going to the Trump Tower meeting to get dirt on Hillary because I think these legal issues are more likely to arise in that context than the other situations that we know about,

Trump jr. is going to be charged with perjury- it’s becoming obvious he lied about a material fact or 20 when he testified to congress behind closed doors.

And then, he’ll also to worry about conspiracy changes- the term collusion is a red herring, because there’s no violation of law based on collusion. All revolving around the Trump tower meetings, and efforts to work with the Russians to undermine Clinton's Campaign. How many times did his story change about the meeting in the first 24 hours?

That’s another thing that’s been out in the open. We have a pub nominee/presumptive nominee’s campaign openly meeting with a hostile foreign power- to get dirt to undermine their opponent. If that’s not conspiracy, I don’t know what is. Remember, conspiracy doesn’t have to result in a successful outcome.

And who knows what else will follow for him and the rest of the folks.

This is what happens when you elect a guy that lives his life by lying, cheating and stealing- and got away with it for 70 years. He literally thinks he can do and say anything he wants- and he’ll be able to mitigate any bad things that happen on his own. His organization operates like a damn mafia family, and they’ve never really been held accountable.

Until the report comes out. Being president is very different than being the head of Trump inc.
 
I think we have crossed the chasm of where 'facts' are now basically just 'opinions.'

I blame this on the flattening out of media and has been accelerated by this current (fake) POTUS with his constant delegitamising of science, credible MSM and even his own civil servants.

Good luck over there, going forward and Post-Trump.

I can’t wait to see how these sites try to explain away the fallout once the report comes out. I assume they’ll Just try to claim it’s all fake- despite mountains of overwhelming evidence.

But, it ain’t going to work that time.

And then where will they be? I assume a certain portion of folks will just find a way to blame Hillary or Obama, but a good percentage will realize that they’ve been had. And then what happens?

I can’t wait.
 
You're equating Rush Limbaugh and the New York Times. That is deeply stupid.

If Rush lies, he just goes back to lying the next day. No consequences.

If the NYT makes an error, the journalist likely loses his/her job. And the paper’s reputation suffers- and the journalist has a helluva time finding work. Huge consequences.

The two aren’t even remotely similar. On any objective level.

I really don’t understand how you can equate the two.
 
Publishing or otherwise using stolen information is not a crime. (Pentagon papers case) This is to be distinguished from possession of stolen property.

Thinking about it, The Pentagon Papers were a Rand Study paid for by the US Government. Could the NY Times print documents detailing the engineer drawings of Ford's next car or the code behind Microsoft's next OS? What role did being a government paper played a role in the Pentagon Papers?
 
Knowing Lucy, I knew "F U" means something profound. So, I googled.
Says, in Chinese, , it means "fortune" or "good luck."
First of all, I am impressed that you know the Chinese language.
Secondly, it's very nice of you to tell "Good Luck" to SuperHoosierFan. Or, was it directed to the dinosaurs? ;)
 
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I can’t wait to see how these sites try to explain away the fallout once the report comes out. I assume they’ll Just try to claim it’s all fake- despite mountains of overwhelming evidence.

But, it ain’t going to work that time.

And then where will they be? I assume a certain portion of folks will just find a way to blame Hillary or Obama, but a good percentage will realize that they’ve been had. And then what happens?

I can’t wait.

Oh Weide, you are so optimistic on life.

Post-trump, thesethese would still blame it on MSM, Mueller and his army of Angry Dems/deep State. They all had it in for Trump to kick out their saviour since 22nd January 2017.
Rigged from the start.

Christ, I bet they still think Obama is a Muslim, Kenyan and therefore an illegitimate President.
 
There is an irony here.

They don't believe in data driven conclusions/projections like climate change or Mueller's investigation -- but takes their religious beliefs and/or Trump's conversion like gospel and factual.
There's another irony.

During the Kavanaugh hearing, Republicans refused to allow the FBI to perform a lengthier, more extensive investigation and then said they were unable to give credence to Christine Blasey Ford because there was no corroboration.

When Cohen pleaded guilty (this last time), the FBI had already conducted a lengthy, thorough investigation (which the Republicans claim has taken too long), obtained extensive documentary corroboration, but Trump still called Cohen a liar.

To Republicans, corroboration doesn't matter.
 
If Rush lies, he just goes back to lying the next day. No consequences.

If the NYT makes an error, the journalist likely loses his/her job. And the paper’s reputation suffers- and the journalist has a helluva time finding work. Huge consequences.

The two aren’t even remotely similar. On any objective level.

I really don’t understand how you can equate the two.

Exactly. Ask Dan Rather if there are consequences for practicing bad journalism. That guy was a staple on evening news and other news programs for almost my whole life. Everyone knew who the hell Dan was. That one story about Bush and BOOM! ...career down the toilet.
 
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Haha. Obstruction, collusion, money laundering, lying under oath in answers to Mueller.
If he ends up being charged with any of those things, I'll be surprised.
You can be surprised all you want. He admitted to obstruction, collusion in front of everyone’s face, every business in NYC has known he’s laundered money for decades.
 
Trump jr. is going to be charged with perjury- it’s becoming obvious he lied about a material fact or 20 when he testified to congress behind closed doors.

And then, he’ll also to worry about conspiracy changes- the term collusion is a red herring, because there’s no violation of law based on collusion. All revolving around the Trump tower meetings, and efforts to work with the Russians to undermine Clinton's Campaign. How many times did his story change about the meeting in the first 24 hours?

That’s another thing that’s been out in the open. We have a pub nominee/presumptive nominee’s campaign openly meeting with a hostile foreign power- to get dirt to undermine their opponent. If that’s not conspiracy, I don’t know what is. Remember, conspiracy doesn’t have to result in a successful outcome.

And who knows what else will follow for him and the rest of the folks.

This is what happens when you elect a guy that lives his life by lying, cheating and stealing- and got away with it for 70 years. He literally thinks he can do and say anything he wants- and he’ll be able to mitigate any bad things that happen on his own. His organization operates like a damn mafia family, and they’ve never really been held accountable.

Until the report comes out. Being president is very different than being the head of Trump inc.
The term, "collusion," is not used even once in Mueller's appointment order here:

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3726381/Robert-Mueller-Special-Counsel-Russia.pdf

Instead, Mueller is authorized to investigate "any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump."

A "link" between the Russian government and people "associated with" Trump's campaign is a broad authorization.

It occurred to me while reading about Cohen's latest guilty plea that Mueller could have completed his investigation much sooner had the Trump circle not lied to him. Instead, the Trump affiliates' lies required Mueller to spend more time sorting it out, and then they blamed him for taking too long. Hard to interpret this strategy as anything other than coordinated obstruction of Mueller's investigation.
 
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Exactly. Ask Dan Rather if there are consequences for practicing bad journalism. That guy was a staple on evening news and other news programs for almost my whole life. Everyone knew who the hell Dan was. That one story about Bush and BOOM! ...career down the toilet.
See Brian Williams re: what happens when you exaggerate stuff... you end up on the graveyard shift at the feeder network. Too bad it doesn't work that way in politics.

And yes, before all the "But Hillary!" responses show up, I know all about her "dodging bullets" in Bosnia or wherever it was... like I said, too bad the politicians don't suffer the same consequences for that kind of shit as do the journalists.
 
See Brian Williams re: what happens when you exaggerate stuff... you end up on the graveyard shift at the feeder network. Too bad it doesn't work that way in politics.

And yes, before all the "But Hillary!" responses show up, I know all about her "dodging bullets" in Bosnia or wherever it was... like I said, too bad the politicians don't suffer the same consequences for that kind of shit as do the journalists.
In the Conservamedia universe, the only consequence for lies is higher ratings.
 
Trump still called Cohen a liar.

Cohen pleaded guilty to lying. He also pleaded guilty to fraud and deceit with his taxes. Seems to me that Trump is spot on.

Strangely, Mueller has pressured all his star witnesses into pleading guilty to lying (Manafort was found guilty of lying) and these are the people who are all of a sudden presumed to be honest when they give statements in exchange for leniency.
 
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Cohen pleaded guilty to lying. He also pleaded guilty to fraud and deceit with his taxes. Seems to me that Trump is spot on.

Strangely, Mueller has pressured all his star witnesses into pleading guilty to lying (Manafort was found guilty of lying) and these are the people who are all of a sudden presumed to be honest when they give statements in exchange for leniency.
True, Cohen pleaded guilty to lying, fraud, and deceit with taxes.

Trump lied, frauded, and cheated. Yet, he insists that he has never done that. Are you claiming his innocense?
 
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Cohen pleaded guilty to lying. He also pleaded guilty to fraud and deceit with his taxes. Seems to me that Trump is spot on.

Strangely, Mueller has pressured all his star witnesses into pleading guilty to lying (Manafort was found guilty of lying) and these are the people who are all of a sudden presumed to be honest when they give statements in exchange for leniency.

Even more strangely, they all have pleaded guilty to lying about contact with Russians. Wonder who they were trying to protect?
 
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