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Coaching!

I'm dismissive because 2 of your examples were in a different sport entirely, none of them save for RMK achieved the lofty standard you claim is so important to you, and all of them were from 30-40 years ago and not in the current climate of college bball in which you can get a good class or 2 of recruits that in that 30-40 year timespan you could have developed in to a championship team, whereas now you will lose the very top players from that class and have to start over. It makes developing that culture that much more difficult. It's also interesting to note that UVA was largely devoid of losing recruits early in TBs tenure. You can't put meaning to anything you're saying. It's all on the Birnk sliding scale of subjectivity. What is TB's culture in specific terms? Keady's, RMKs? Let me see your specifically worded examples. It's not a mathematical formula and you're right of course to a degree, because as I admitted, CAM has yet to be successful in getting us there.

I never admitted I based progress solely on wins, but since you say I did, would you quote it please? Just another of your claims. I've never said anything other that the verdict is still out on Archie, but with this year he can show progress similar to those other programs I mentioned. My point was 1) you don't have some higher standard, you just have decided Archie's not the guy and that's the way you've decided to express it. My point it, you'd have also been complaining about the coaches I mentioned because it took them a similar length of time to show results similar to what it appears our results will be this year. And, oh yeah, I went back to see when BA was coaching at WI and he was actually 5-6 in his 3rd year too, and it wasn't until his 4th year that he made the jump, but I'm sure you'd have been good with under 500 in his third year because you'd have been so comfortable with the culture he created!
And still, with all of your empty bloviating, you can’t identify what Miller’s culture is at IU. Nothing from you at all. Improvement only comes with a tournament berth (your standard), coaching another sport doesn’t count (your standard (things are different now (your standard), but absolutely nothing, not one thing in regard to what Miller’s culture at IU. At least another poster thoughtfully took some guesses. You haven’t even tried, because you can’t, and it doesn’t matter to you, anyway.

And those are the lowered expectations that you and others embody that have let the performance of the last 20+ years not matter as much as it used to. And it’s why apathy is setting in, why attendance keeps dropping, why the waiting list gets smaller and tickets are easier to find. Most of all, it’s why the program will stay mostly in the rut that has now been remodeled for it again and again.
 
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We’re in 9th place in the Big Ten, our recruiting is in shambles, we’re fighting to make the tournament for the first time in 3 years, and you come on here to find people beating their chests and bragging like we’re cutting down nets. What in the world happened to our fan base?
Another post full of stupid hyperbolic bs.
Give it a rest, kid. Go put on your special shirt...

hey_look_at_me_t_shirt-red8fc49ea86d46da8c063b62a787902f_jyr6t_540.jpg
 
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Oh no .. a true fan post.

lmao ..
Yeah better than you wanna be fans who care less if we win or not. Much like Fred Glass’ dumbass. If you were a true fan you would want improvement by year three. This team gets blown out too much.
 
And still, with all of your empty Bolivia ting, you can’t identify what Miller’s culture is at IU. Nothing from you at all. Improvement only comes with a tournament berth (your standard), coaching another sport doesn’t count (your standard (things are different now (your standard), but absolutely nothing, not one thing in regard to what Miller’s culture at IU. At least another poster thoughtfully took some guesses. You haven’t even tried, because you can’t, and it doesn’t matter to you, anyway.

And those are the lowered expectations that you and others embody that have let the performance of the last 20+ years not matter as much as it used to. And it’s why apathy is setting in, why attendance keeps dropping, why the waiting list gets smaller and tickets are easier to find. Most of all, it’s why the program will stay mostly in the rut that has now been remodeled for it again and again.
Bolivia ting! Are you a beltah!?! Sorry, I've been watching a lot of The Expanse this week.
 
Look your going to get bashed because now archie s the greatest coach in the world after two straight wins. The extremes are mind boggling. He wins the next one they willbe calling him big ten coach of the year. We should make the tourney unless we collapse.
NOBODY is saying that. You beat the sh!t out of straw men that don't exist.
 
Yeah better than you wanna be fans who care less if we win or not. Much like Fred Glass’ dumbass. If you were a true fan you would want improvement by year three. This team gets blown out too much.
Many of us could care less because we care a whole lot about winning. :rolleyes::rolleyes::D Take your "true fan" sh!t and shove it back where it belongs. Players are improving and the team is improving. Defense most of the last game was outstanding. I'm liking what I'm seeing most of the time. None of us like it when we lose but inconsistency shouldn't be a surprise knowing the mix of the team and the lack of consistent outside shooting and guard play. The team clicks when the guard play is merely good and some outside shots are falling. Once we have consistent outside shooting we've got ourselves an excellent team and that's what I expect to see.
 
Many of us could care less because we care a whole lot about winning. :rolleyes::rolleyes::D Take your "true fan" sh!t and shove it back where it belongs. Players are improving and the team is improving. Defense most of the last game was outstanding. I'm liking what I'm seeing most of the time. None of us like it when we lose but inconsistency shouldn't be a surprise knowing the mix of the team and the lack of consistent outside shooting and guard play. The team clicks when the guard play is merely good and some outside shots are falling. Once we have consistent outside shooting we've got ourselves an excellent team and that's what I expect to see.

Why can't they shoot consistently though? RP and Franklin were not billed as defensive specialists, they are supposed to make shots, Al not supposed to be a bad shot, just OK. Green is about the only known quantity we have and that is game to game, so why can't we shoot and why are we sitting on two scholarships this year that could have improved that problem if it was even considered?
 
Why can't they shoot consistently though? RP and Franklin were not billed as defensive specialists, they are supposed to make shots, Al not supposed to be a bad shot, just OK. Green is about the only known quantity we have and that is game to game, so why can't we shoot and why are we sitting on two scholarships this year that could have improved that problem if it was even considered?
If you find the answer to that and the cure for inconsistent outside shooting you could make a lot of money. Based on Archie's recent show with Fish it seems Archie has plans for one or two more additions to this year's class. Maybe Lander or Whitt reclassify and take one and maybe he has someone else in mind for another one.
 
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This team has flaws. Flaws that won’t be corrected this season or even over the summer. Flaws that lead to inconsistent execution. However, while at times this season effort has been inconsistent, the last two games reflected 40 minute effort. The team has enough talent with 40 minute effort to be a middle of the pack Big Ten team and middle of the pack NCAA seed. This team has a low margin for error, so even 35 minute efforts can sink them.

In terms of the program, IU is where it is, but go back to Archie’s arrival and a couple of highlights from his opening press conference:

1. Recruit inside out (State of Indiana first). —This has been reflected in his first 3 recruiting classes

2. Team will be based on defense / effort. — This has been a work in progress over each season, but prior to and after each game (rebounding, effort, closeouts) have been Archie’s focus

3. Defense into transition — Countlessly mentioned about IU’s offense much more effective in transition

Archie stated a strategy and so far has been a man of his word. Many also mentioned he wants long teams, for defensive and rebounding advantages. —TJD, Smith, Race, Hunter, Franklin, add in the 2020 recruits all 6’ 4”+ (all sg/sf), the transformation is underway.

Archie is building a foundation, a foundation he expressed in his acceptance speech and frankly hasn’t deviated from. Will the foundation be strong enough to re-establish Indiana as a blue blood, that is TBD. However, this year’s team and their corresponding performance being used as a referendum on the program and its future trajectory is flawed.

For this season 20-11 regular season is successful, it won’t be a success next season or after. Archie needs to stack the 2020 & 2021 classes. When he does and as the fr/so become upperclassmen, the Indiana you want/expect should return.

Remember, this current team has flaws/ a talent ceiling, the hope is to achieve that ceiling through sustained effort, but at the end of the day talent wins out (Indiana will lose to certain teams even at 100% effort). This team isn’t talented enough, over the next few years it needs to be.
2020 & 2021 recruiting and next seasons play will provide plenty of data points to evaluate the state/trajectory of the program vs this season’s team.

Underlying 95% of the discussions on this board for the last 12 months have been varying opinions based on extrapolation of the future. Mix in long-term frustration, game specific frustration, the need to be right / not admitting on being wrong, state recruits vs star ratings, and its Thunderdome. All because there are not enough data points and Romeo/TJD turned many IU fans into Veruca Salt (I want it all / I want it now / I’m entitled to it).

This program’s foundation was pretty hollow (APR, 2016 / 2017 recruiting classes, in state recruiting dead). The Big Ten title in 2016 masked significant program level flaws. The foundation 3 years later against those 3 areas is much stronger. The question still unanswered is whether the program is becoming strong enough and will it be strong enough to support an eventual blue-blood performing level. Still to early to tell, but 18 months from now it will be much clearer.

Meanwhile, try to enjoy this season for what it is, trying to maximize the effort/performance of a flawed team.

Nobody is calling for a perfect season, just continued improvement and not laying eggs, especially at home. That, we have yet to move beyond. Once we can EXPECT to win and bitch about not sometime, somebody will have earned their 3.5M keep. Until then
Oh please. This team and program is finding it's way under a new Coach, and the results have admittedly been less than anticipated. But, we are where we are. This team lost it's 2 best scorers and players off a team that cratered to end the year last year and didn't make the tourney. This year's team is finding it's way and has rallied to the point that it looks likely we will make it. Sure, we all want to be back to contending for conference championships and F4s, but this years team is making progress. Yes, a top half of the conference finish and making the tourney is a successful season THIS year and a step towards getting us back towards those loftier goals. If you don't think so, I'd suggest taking a break from these boards until we get to the point where your "higher aspirations" are being met. You're too soft for the path it takes to get there.
No, this is not Creighton, and no we don't pay upwards of 15M for 5 years to be patient and wait. The lack of progress from years 1-3 is legitimate. They may have finally turned the corner, but two successive wins is not a measure of that. Once we can EXPECT not to lose anywhere, I'll consider it a success
 
Nobody is calling for a perfect season, just continued improvement and not laying eggs, especially at home. That, we have yet to move beyond. Once we can EXPECT to win and bitch about not sometime, somebody will have earned their 3.5M keep. Until then
No, this is not Creighton, and no we don't pay upwards of 15M for 5 years to be patient and wait. The lack of progress from years 1-3 is legitimate. They may have finally turned the corner, but two successive wins is not a measure of that. Once we can EXPECT not to lose anywhere, I'll consider it a success
You'll bitch regardless. Because you're a bitch.
 
Look your going to get bashed because now archie s the greatest coach in the world after two straight wins. The extremes are mind boggling. He wins the next one they willbe calling him big ten coach of the year. We should make the tourney unless we collapse.

Talk about extremes, you have it from one post of yours to the next.

And NO, no one will be calling him BT coach of the year if they beat PU.

I don't understand why so many posters are prolific in their use of hyperbole.
 
Are you ****ing dumb. The team is improving after two wins. When this team learns to shoot free throws, learns to stay in games on the road instead of getting crushed and stops having careless turnovers, then I’ll say they’re improving. So stick that up your ass bitch.

Bing is active duty. He could pick you up and stuff you in a trash can.

Maybe you could re-phrase and apologize for being a jerk.
 
Many of us could care less because we care a whole lot about winning. :rolleyes::rolleyes::D Take your "true fan" sh!t and shove it back where it belongs. Players are improving and the team is improving. Defense most of the last game was outstanding. I'm liking what I'm seeing most of the time. None of us like it when we lose but inconsistency shouldn't be a surprise knowing the mix of the team and the lack of consistent outside shooting and guard play. The team clicks when the guard play is merely good and some outside shots are falling. Once we have consistent outside shooting we've got ourselves an excellent team and that's what I expect to see.
Yeah that defense was awesome to blow a 13 point lead in 6 minutes. If we played that kind of defense all year long we would be a lock for a 1 seed in the NCAA tournament.
 
To each his own. I don’t see any of Bennett in Miller so, while I understand your use of him as an illustration of the process, I don’t believe it’s applicable.

Miller missed an opportunity early on to invest in building a program culture, and it’s hindered progress ever since. Moreover, it’s allowed an alternative culture to grow in its place, one in which a lack of accountability has taken root. As any number of programs across various sports have shown, culture is infinitely more important than scheme, and in this area I think the differences between Miller and Bennett are stark. Bennett was, first and foremost, a culture guy, and it’s led to long term program building and the winning that inevitably follows.

Miller seems far more focused on scheme, something that’s been shown to always produce uneven results because it relies too heavily on things largely out of your control. Crean was the poster child for scheme over culture, and the results showed it.

Again, the sports world is full of examples of the differences that exist in the culture versus scheme debate, and it’s why schools who are fortunate enough to get the Bennett’s of the world do almost anything to keep them. In this regard, could there be no better example than IU and Knight and the lengths the University went to with him in an effort to maintain the culture that is now so elusive?

Maybe Miller will be the guy. But I’m far less confident than you based on what I consider to be the winning formula for success and Miller’s inability to establish that, in large part because he didn’t prioritize it.

knowing all this, you must travel with the team...lol
 
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We’re in 9th place in the Big Ten, our recruiting is in shambles, we’re fighting to make the tournament for the first time in 3 years, and you come on here to find people beating their chests and bragging like we’re cutting down nets. What in the world happened to our fan base?
We’re still waiting on Billy Donovan to show up . . . :rolleyes:
 
Yeah that defense was awesome to blow a 13 point lead in 6 minutes. If we played that kind of defense all year long we would be a lock for a 1 seed in the NCAA tournament.
They played very good D most of the first half and they let down for some of that 6 minute stretch. But they won that game because they really tightened up on D the last 11 minutes. That allowed the defense to transition to offense and retake the lead and hold on to win. Overall it was a good defensive game.
 
They played very good D most of the first half and they let down for some of that 6 minute stretch. But they won that game because they really tightened up on D the last 11 minutes. That allowed the defense to transition to offense and retake the lead and hold on to win. Overall it was a good defensive game.
Yeah at home. If that was on the road it’s another 20 point loss.
 
I'm a big teddy bear. You can ask my wife and kids. Let the internet warrior have some fun. :D
I’m not an internet warrior but I’m not a pussy either and can handle myself and just because you’re active duty doesn’t make you Rambo.
 
Yeah at home. If that was on the road it’s another 20 point loss.
Runs happen in college basketball - even vs. great teams. Especially so now with a 30-second shot clock.

People with no real argument always argue in terms of "if" and "but". Much like your last two posts in this thread. Anything that fits the narrative and the agenda of getting the coach fired. You'd be a popular guy at the barbershop in Hickory.
 
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Runs happen in college basketball - even vs. great teams. Especially so now with a 30-second shot clock.

People with no real argument always argue in terms of "if" and "but". Much like your last two posts in this thread. Anything that fits the narrative and the agenda of getting the coach fired. You'd be a popular guy at the barbershop in Hickory.
Is that everyone’s bs excuse. Runs happen in college basketball. The good teams limit those in games and Indiana doesn’t. I would like to see how many times in games this year Indiana has gone 3+ minutes without scoring. The point I’m making is that all you dumbass fans think because we won a game at home and beat a average team on the road, that we’re a good basketball team.
 
I don't have lesser standards, as I said, but I also understand that it's a process to get back there. What, you think Archie just forgot to flip the Final 4 button?

Look at UVA. Bennett's teams missed the tourney his first 2 years and then made it in his 3rd. Took him 5 years to win a conference crown, 7 to make an E8 and get past his only S16 and then a full 10 to make a F4 and win a NC. Took Beilein 5 years to win a conference title and then made the Finals in his 6th year. Jay Wright? 4 years to make the tourney, 5 to win a conference title and 8 to make a F4. That's the type of timeline we're likely on. Kids leaving early has totally changed the dynamic of developing a class over 4 years, because oftentimes the best players are gone after 2-3 and you're starting over. You can talk all you want about loftier standards, but to get there, it takes time and is a process and isn't going to happen overnight. Is CAM the right guy for the job? I don't know and the road has been rockier than I expected, but I do see progress this year and will be happy if we make the tourney and play well in doing so.

Bennett isn't a good comparison. By year 3 Bennett had established his culture and what UVA basketball is, defense. They were a top 5 defense that year.
 
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Well, when you've never done sh!t in your entire life and suddenly have the anonymity of the internet, you can be anything you want...
Yeah that’s it. Go back under the rock you slithered you’re way out of bitch. Because just like me you have the anonymity of the internet. So take your Chinese symbol, like it’s suppose to intimidate me or anyone else and stfu because your bitch don’t scare anyone.
 
Is that everyone’s bs excuse. Runs happen in college basketball. The good teams limit those in games and Indiana doesn’t. I would like to see how many times in games this year Indiana has gone 3+ minutes without scoring. The point I’m making is that all you dumbass fans think because we won a game at home and beat a average team on the road, that we’re a good basketball team.

So, is Indiana then a good team for going out to a 19 point lead, giving up the lead, and then going on another 13-0 run to win the game against the 9th ranked team in the nation at the time?
 
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So, is Indiana then a good team for going out to a 19 point lead, giving up the lead, and then going on another 13-0 run to win the game against the 9th ranked team in the nation at the time?
No because good teams don’t blow big leads in the amount of time that Indiana did especially at home. Like I said if that game was on the road it’s another 20 point loss.
 
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