Clemson had 23 players test positive for covid

[i'vegotwinners]

It hasn't been wiped out anywhere, but Europe is heading in the right direction while we're setting daily records for new cases. And things have gotten considerably worse, domestically, since the linked article was published on Monday, with hospital systems now on the verge of crisis in Houston and elsewhere in the U.S.

The differences between the U.S. and Europe, with respect to the current status of Covid, couldn't be more stark.
https://thehill.com/policy/healthca...-cases-rise-marking-ugly-contrast-with-europe

good job of totally dodging my point.

the current Europe strategy only works as long as one hides out indefinitely with distancing and masks, only drags out the inevitability that everyone will get it sooner or later, and isn't a long range plan other than to someone fine with masks and distancing the rest of the their life, and no concerts or ballgames or public squares or group socializing the rest of their life.

half the population is effectively immune from serious effects, a third of the population is seriously at risk. and the middle agers are moderately at risk.

to not acknowledge and take this reality into account in any and all strategies going forward, is beyond insane.

totally ignoring the different universes we now live in doesn't make them not so, and the safe universe isn't going to put their lives on hold indefinitely while the world treads water, are abandoning the safe room as we speak, and again, to not take all this into account in all planning going forward is both totally naive and malfeasance of leadership.

this guy,

becoming this guy some day,

is not a good long term plan.

 

[Bowlmania]

good job of totally dodging my point.

the current Europe strategy only works as long as one hides out indefinitely with distancing and masks, only drags out the inevitability that everyone will get it sooner or later, and isn't a long range plan other than to someone fine with masks and distancing the rest of the their life, and no concerts or ballgames or public squares or group socializing the rest of their life.

half the population is effectively immune from serious effects, a third of the population is seriously at risk. and the middle agers are moderately at risk.

to not acknowledge and take this reality into account in any and all strategies going forward, is beyond insane.

totally ignoring the different universes we now live in doesn't make them not so, and the safe universe isn't going to put their lives on hold indefinitely while the world treads water, are abandoning the safe room as we speak, and again, to not take all this into account in all planning going forward is both totally naive and malfeasance of leadership.

this guy,

becoming this guy some day,

is not a good long term plan.

No, this isn't a "for the rest of your life" scenario at all. The top infectious disease scientist in the country believes there's an excellent chance of an effective vaccine being rolled out in 2021. And, in the meantime, there are scientists working around the clock to develop therapies and treatment so that, if the virus can't be prevented, it can be effectively managed. In the meantime, personal responsibility and common decency (like wearing a mask and maintaining some physical space) can go a long way toward preventing hospital overcapacity issues, preventing an uncontrolled spread of the virus, and saving lives.

 

[crossfire74]

It hasn't been wiped out anywhere, but Europe is heading in the right direction while we're setting daily records for new cases. And things have gotten considerably worse, domestically, since the linked article was published on Monday, with hospital systems now on the verge of crisis in Houston and elsewhere in the U.S.

The differences between the U.S. and Europe, with respect to the current status of Covid, couldn't be more stark.
https://thehill.com/policy/healthca...-cases-rise-marking-ugly-contrast-with-europe

What did people expect the numbers to do when so many places allowed riots and protests for the past 3 weeks with people arm in arm? Of course the numbers are going to skyrocket. The difference between the US and Europe, especially over these past few weeks, is the US is rioting/protesting by the tens of thousands in EVERY major city and almost every town. While some bigger cities in Europe have protested, it doesn't hold a candle to what is happening here.

Idk if the protests/riots will end, but if they do, then expect a MAJOR downtrend in positive cases. It'll never go away though. There will always be people testing positive from here on out.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

No, this isn't a "for the rest of your life" scenario at all. The top infectious disease scientist in the country believes there's an excellent chance of an effective vaccine being rolled out in 2021. And, in the meantime, there are scientists working around the clock to develop therapies and treatment so that, if the virus can't be prevented, it can be effectively managed. In the meantime, personal responsibility and common decency (like wearing a mask and maintaining some physical space) can go a long way toward preventing hospital overcapacity issues, preventing an uncontrolled spread of the virus, and saving lives.

you're obviously very young, and with that comes very naive and hopeful.

but reality check, we don't have an effective flu vaccine.

and Bruce Willis, Michael Jordan, Elton John, Tiger Woods, and plenty of billionaires, are still waiting for that cure for baldness.

polio is the one bad virus that i can think of that an effective vaccine has been developed for in my lifetime, and that wasn't in time to save someone i knew growing up or FDR.

and that was 60 yrs ago. (you know, back near the time when we were still capable of putting a man on the moon).

no one isn't for pursuing a vaccine and effective treatment full speed ahead, but hoping one is developed shouldn't be our only plan.

and even if a vaccine is developed, we're probably looking at yrs before it's ready for universal use.

meanwhile young people are effectively immune from serious effects anyway, and old people don't have forever to wait. (i have more hope for an effective treatment than a vaccine anytime soon, with an effective antibodies test another hope).

so while we're waiting on hoped for medical breakthroughs that could come next yr or next century, it's leadership malfeasance to not actively be pursuing a plan B to deal with this in the meantime.

and not incorporating and utilizing what we now know regarding the 3 different universes we now live in, due to how differently the virus affects youngers, the middle aged, and the olders, and just waiting, hoping, for a miracle, while masking and distancing indefinitely in the mean time, is not good leadership.

 

[oldcougar77]

What did people expect the numbers to do when so many places allowed riots and protests for the past 3 weeks with people arm in arm? Of course the numbers are going to skyrocket. The difference between the US and Europe, especially over these past few weeks, is the US is rioting/protesting by the tens of thousands in EVERY major city and almost every town. While some bigger cities in Europe have protested, it doesn't hold a candle to what is happening here.

Idk if the protests/riots will end, but if they do, then expect a MAJOR downtrend in positive cases. It'll never go away though. There will always be people testing positive from here on out.

This is idiotic. The surge has not come from protests. An overwhelming number of new cases can be directly traced to bars, parties, and other large indoor gatherings. The vast majority have been those who have ignored the advice on social distancing and mask wearing at social functions. Jeezus.

 

[DANC]

good job of totally dodging my point.

the current Europe strategy only works as long as one hides out indefinitely with distancing and masks, only drags out the inevitability that everyone will get it sooner or later, and isn't a long range plan other than to someone fine with masks and distancing the rest of the their life, and no concerts or ballgames or public squares or group socializing the rest of their life.

half the population is effectively immune from serious effects, a third of the population is seriously at risk. and the middle agers are moderately at risk.

to not acknowledge and take this reality into account in any and all strategies going forward, is beyond insane.

totally ignoring the different universes we now live in doesn't make them not so, and the safe universe isn't going to put their lives on hold indefinitely while the world treads water, are abandoning the safe room as we speak, and again, to not take all this into account in all planning going forward is both totally naive and malfeasance of leadership.

this guy,

becoming this guy some day,

is not a good long term plan.

LOL You called me a 'piece of shit' for making this very argument a few months ago.

You seem to have changed your tune.

 

[IU Fan 1989]

https://t.co/JjYw9XCn4j

Clemson has 14 more positive tests

 

[i'vegotwinners]

LOL You called me a 'piece of shit' for making this very argument a few months ago.

You seem to have changed your tune.

link please

 

[crossfire74]

This is idiotic. The surge has not come from protests. An overwhelming number of new cases can be directly traced to bars, parties, and other large indoor gatherings. The vast majority have been those who have ignored the advice on social distancing and mask wearing at social functions. Jeezus.

So large outdoor gatherings of tens of thousands of people not wearing a mask, walking arm in arm had no affect vs your argument that "indoor parties" that host maybe 100 people tops are the cause??? HAHAHAHAHA! You don't have to agree with me.....I'm fine with that. But I'm not agreeing with your ridiculous assumptions either. Hundreds vs tens of thousands don't hold water, unless you are a Joe Biden and CNN disciple.

 

[vesuvius13]

This is idiotic. The surge has not come from protests. An overwhelming number of new cases can be directly traced to bars, parties, and other large indoor gatherings. The vast majority have been those who have ignored the advice on social distancing and mask wearing at social functions. Jeezus.

The cities with high numbers don't ask if the new cases attended a protest so we don't know if the protest cause the increase but common sense says they did. That doesn't mean crowding bars and other inside areas hasn't also contributed to the increase.

 

[ce36ei]

Clemson positioning their self for another run at the Natty.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

So large outdoor gatherings of tens of thousands of people not wearing a mask, walking arm in arm had no affect vs your argument that "indoor parties" that host maybe 100 people tops are the cause??? HAHAHAHAHA! You don't have to agree with me.....I'm fine with that. But I'm not agreeing with your ridiculous assumptions either. Hundreds vs tens of thousands don't hold water, unless you are a Joe Biden and CNN disciple.

thousands of gatherings of 10s or a hundred, many indoor, has as much or more effect as one central gathering of hundreds or thousands, and it's totally irrelevant which drives confirmed positives more.

half the population is effectively immune, isn't going to indefinitely behave as are those at risk now that they know they are effectively immune, so any strategy that's dependent on them indefinitely doing so is doomed to failure, and leaders clinging to a strategy based in the effectively immune behaving as the at risk behave, is failure of leadership.

the best way to protect those of us at risk isn't to try and forever control the behavior of the effectively immune the olders interact with, but rather to totally segregate the olders at risk and the effectively immune, who are going back to normal society whether the powers that be like it or not.

and doing that means govt enabling the at risk to lock down both logistically with no contact delivery type options, and financially supporting the at risk still dependent on some assistance to pay bills, rather than throwing trillions at politically connected corporations that benefits billionaires most.

we know things now we didn't know in early March, yet we stubbornly refuse to alter our strategy to reflect what we've learned.

and all media and govt in concert do all they can to hide statistics relevant to developing the best strategy going forward, because what we've learned isn't what the powers that be hoped for.

we need to pursue what's best for society as a whole, the long term real economy, and to best protect the olders at risk.

not what treats everyone the same, in a new unfair reality where the virus doesn't treat everyone the same.

if an effective treatment or vaccine comes along, great, but we also need a plan B that isn't just hoping for a miracle while forcing the effectively immune to behave the same as the olders at risk, indefinitely while we wait.

 

[oldcougar77]

So large outdoor gatherings of tens of thousands of people not wearing a mask, walking arm in arm had no affect vs your argument that "indoor parties" that host maybe 100 people tops are the cause??? HAHAHAHAHA! You don't have to agree with me.....I'm fine with that. But I'm not agreeing with your ridiculous assumptions either. Hundreds vs tens of thousands don't hold water, unless you are a Joe Biden and CNN disciple.

For starters, the new outbreaks aren't occurring in places where the largest protests were held - so there's that. Add to that the fact that the overwhelming majority of young people now testing positive and symptomatic have stated themselves that they were not protestors, but were present and likely infected at bars or parties.

But feel free to keep your head up your ass and spin facts to suit your political narrative. I realize you are just conforming to the wishes of your dear leader. After 3+ years of tuning out reality I'm sure it's a natural thing for you by now.

 

[secondasky]

For starters, the new outbreaks aren't occurring in places where the largest protests were held - so there's that. Add to that the fact that the overwhelming majority of young people now testing positive and symptomatic have stated themselves that they were not protestors, but were present and likely infected at bars or parties.

But feel free to keep your head up your ass and spin facts to suit your political narrative. I realize you are just conforming to the wishes of your dear leader. After 3+ years of tuning out reality I'm sure it's a natural thing for you by now.

So much we still don't know about this virus. But the surge seems to be a combination of:
1. Protestors
2. Rioters
3. The first wave is now just coming over TX, AZ, FL as well as some other states. These are mobile states, highly traveled and with many tourists in and out. Many on the East Coast were headed for FL.
4. People loosening up on their social distancing.

 

[oldcougar77]

So much we still don't know about this virus. But the surge seems to be a combination of:
1. Protestors
2. Rioters
3. The first wave is now just coming over TX, AZ, FL as well as some other states. These are mobile states, highly traveled and with many tourists in and out. Many on the East Coast were headed for FL.
4. People loosening up on their social distancing.

Except that #1 and #2 are patently false, and in the other states, the surge is among full-time residents. You did get #4 correct though so it wasn't a complete swing and miss.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

So much we still don't know about this virus. But the surge seems to be a combination of:
1. Protestors
2. Rioters
3. The first wave is now just coming over TX, AZ, FL as well as some other states. These are mobile states, highly traveled and with many tourists in and out. Many on the East Coast were headed for FL.
4. People loosening up on their social distancing.

Except that #1 and #2 are patently false, and in the other states, the surge is among full-time residents. You did get #4 correct though so it wasn't a complete swing and miss.

what is the point of arguing over the totally irrelevant.

makes absolutely zero difference whether mostly youngers are protesting or partying while no longer following guidelines, and going back to normal society because they have now learned they are effectively immune.

the relevant point is that they have now learned they are effectively immune, thus are going back to normal society, and no one is going to "unlearn" them. (at least without one of the those Men In Black thingies anyway)..

any covid strategy that's dependent on putting the toothpaste back in the tube and youngers going back to behaving as olders need to behave, is doomed to failure.

youngers are effectively immune, olders are at great risk..

youngers might as well work toward herd immunity since they can relatively safely do so if completely staying completely away from olders.

olders need to be enabled logistically and financially to stay in lockdown as long as needed, if they so choose.

youngers and olders need to stay totally separated in the meantime as there is no "safe" way for youngers and olders to interact, unless the younger also locks down with olders and doesn't interact at all with other youngers..

one policy for all ages is totally ignoring all the facts on the disease we've acquired to date, and doomed to fail as it now is doing.

any strategy based in politics, or how people "wish" things were instead of how they actually are, is doomed.

to not see this, is to totally ignore the absolutely undeniable facts of the disease, and the facts of human behavior.

total denial is not productive.

 

[secondasky]

Except that #1 and #2 are patently false, and in the other states, the surge is among full-time residents. You did get #4 correct though so it wasn't a complete swing and miss.

And I left out that testing sites have increased dramatically adding to the surge. Especially in young people. It would be good if we could see the increase not just of new cases but of cases hospitalized. Your comment that the overwhelming majority now testing positive have said they weren't protestors. That's a pretty profound statement. I'd like to see the national data on that one. Can't wait to see how many protestors and rioters would actually admit they got the virus. And who would ask or release such data under the confidential health laws.

 

[zeke4ahs]

What did people expect the numbers to do when so many places allowed riots and protests for the past 3 weeks with people arm in arm? Of course the numbers are going to skyrocket. The difference between the US and Europe, especially over these past few weeks, is the US is rioting/protesting by the tens of thousands in EVERY major city and almost every town. While some bigger cities in Europe have protested, it doesn't hold a candle to what is happening here.

Idk if the protests/riots will end, but if they do, then expect a MAJOR downtrend in positive cases. It'll never go away though. There will always be people testing positive from here on out.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1232045 From everything I have read it’s the states opening early, bars, etc that have led to the surge. Protests are outdoors, which is much safer.

 

[zeke4ahs]

So large outdoor gatherings of tens of thousands of people not wearing a mask, walking arm in arm had no affect vs your argument that "indoor parties" that host maybe 100 people tops are the cause??? HAHAHAHAHA! You don't have to agree with me.....I'm fine with that. But I'm not agreeing with your ridiculous assumptions either. Hundreds vs tens of thousands don't hold water, unless you are a Joe Biden and CNN disciple.

Because Trump supporters really have a handle on facts now, don’t they? Or science? Lmao

 

[zeke4ahs]

The cities with high numbers don't ask if the new cases attended a protest so we don't know if the protest cause the increase but common sense says they did. That doesn't mean crowding bars and other inside areas hasn't also contributed to the increase.

Of course they ask. They are trying to trace all new cases. Where did you get that information? Do people really still not understand the difference in how this spreads indoors vs outdoors?

 

[zeke4ahs]

And I left out that testing sites have increased dramatically adding to the surge. Especially in young people. It would be good if we could see the increase not just of new cases but of cases hospitalized. Your comment that the overwhelming majority now testing positive have said they weren't protestors. That's a pretty profound statement. I'd like to see the national data on that one. Can't wait to see how many protestors and rioters would actually admit they got the virus. And who would ask or release such data under the confidential health laws.

Hospitalization has surged , but deaths have not. Give it a week or two. You are correct about the surge for new cases, but sadly the hospitals and death surge will be next for states opening too quickly. A perfect example is NYC. They had huge protests, yet their numbers are way down. Hong Kong, even though their population is one of the densest in the world, has very few deaths. Why? Because they actually comply and wear masks.

 

[DANC]

For starters, the new outbreaks aren't occurring in places where the largest protests were held - so there's that. Add to that the fact that the overwhelming majority of young people now testing positive and symptomatic have stated themselves that they were not protestors, but were present and likely infected at bars or parties.

But feel free to keep your head up your ass and spin facts to suit your political narrative. I realize you are just conforming to the wishes of your dear leader. After 3+ years of tuning out reality I'm sure it's a natural thing for you by now.

So you think all protester/rioters are local people? They don't come from other locations?

 

[oldcougar77]

So you think all protester/rioters are local people? They don't come from other locations?

No. Try to stay with me here. The places experiencing surges are not places where large protests were held. The places where large protests were held (Minneapolis, NYC, Washington DC, Seattle, etc.) are not experiencing surges. I can't make it any simpler for you ... smh.

For the life of me, I cannot fathom why so many people have decided to blindly accept the rhetoric of a man who is a confirmed pathological liar. His first impulse is to lie about anything and everything and has been his entire life. He is a snake oil salesmen and nothing more. There is a reason he has protected his academic records and tax records at all costs - because they will prove him to be both an idiot and a dishonest cheat. People who have known him his entire life know that about him, regardless of their political leanings.

What I cannot understand is why anybody of any political affiliation would support him. Conservatives should despise him, veterans should despise him, Christians should disavow him (since Christians shouldn't hate). His only core values are greed and self-interest and nothing about him even hints that he is a patriot in any sense of the word. He is as phony as a $6 bill. As my grandfather used to say, "He would lie even if the truth would serve him better".

It isn't a Conservative/Liberal or Republican/Democrat thing. This guy is pathetically incompetent - to the point of being a danger to our security and that of the rest of the world. The only thing he has been consistent about has been his unwavering deference to Vladimir Putin. That should scare the hell out of everybody in this country - especially conservatives.

 

[DANC]

No. Try to stay with me here. The places experiencing surges are not places where large protests were held. The places where large protests were held (Minneapolis, NYC, Washington DC, Seattle, etc.) are not experiencing surges. I can't make it any simpler for you ... smh.

For the life of me, I cannot fathom why so many people have decided to blindly accept the rhetoric of a man who is a confirmed pathological liar. His first impulse is to lie about anything and everything and has been his entire life. He is a snake oil salesmen and nothing more. There is a reason he has protected his academic records and tax records at all costs - because they will prove him to be both an idiot and a dishonest cheat. People who have known him his entire life know that about him, regardless of their political leanings.

What I cannot understand is why anybody of any political affiliation would support him. Conservatives should despise him, veterans should despise him, Christians should disavow him (since Christians shouldn't hate). His only core values are greed and self-interest and nothing about him even hints that he is a patriot in any sense of the word. He is as phony as a $6 bill. As my grandfather used to say, "He would lie even if the truth would serve him better".

It isn't a Conservative/Liberal or Republican/Democrat thing. This guy is pathetically incompetent - to the point of being a danger to our security and that of the rest of the world. The only thing he has been consistent about has been his unwavering deference to Vladimir Putin. That should scare the hell out of everybody in this country - especially conservatives.

Your political bias is obvious - at least you aren't trying to hide it.

The increased cases in states now are miniscule compared to the total in states such as New York and New Jersey, at least per capita.

How do you explain Indiana? Cases are not increasing. Death rate is down. Plenty of hospital capacity. And yet, they are 6 days away from opening things up completely. The only thing that will stop it is hysteria coming from other states.

Even in the states where cases have increased, the death rates have not. And the new cases are mostly in younger populations, which have very low death rates.

Quit trying to spread panic because of you political bent.

 

[Bowlmania]

There is a reason he has protected his academic records and tax records at all costs - because they will prove him to be both an idiot and a dishonest cheat.

I think there's a better than even chance that his financial records will reflect that he's massively indebted to Russian oligarchs with close ties to Putin. This would explain a lot, including his disgraceful comments in Helsinki two years ago, and his failure to act in connection with intelligence reflecting that Putin offered bounties to Taliban militants to kill U.S. troops in Afghanistan. It's looking more and more like this presidency is not going to end well for 45.

 

[oldcougar77]

Your political bias is obvious - at least you aren't trying to hide it.

The increased cases in states now are miniscule compared to the total in states such as New York and New Jersey, at least per capita.

How do you explain Indiana? Cases are not increasing. Death rate is down. Plenty of hospital capacity. And yet, they are 6 days away from opening things up completely. The only thing that will stop it is hysteria coming from other states.

Even in the states where cases have increased, the death rates have not. And the new cases are mostly in younger populations, which have very low death rates.

Quit trying to spread panic because of you political bent.

I consider myself a moderate and politically independent. My problem is not with Republican or conservative ideology but a personal one with Donald Trump's corruption and incompetence. If I have a problem with Republicans, it's with those who are willing to protect this fool who are putting party ahead of country. Trump has no ideology other than his own self-interest. He's a narcissist concerned only with how he is perceived and the things that can bring him praise and adoration. He doesn't give a crap about policy or US interests. He simply gravitates to issues and positions that generate publicity and the appearance that he is a tough guy. He can't articulate a rational argument on any substantive issue.

I understand the support for him in 2016 given the frustrations of voters with the way Washington works and the disdain for Hillary Clinton. But his campaign was based on bullshit, false bravado, and unrealistic promises. Four years later we know who he is (and really always was). My now 83- year-old father bought in hook, line, and sinker because he thought Trump was not a politician. Now he knows better. As I tried to explain to him in 2016 that because you might hate every doctor in your local hospital, you still wouldn't let the loudmouth drunk from the corner stool of the local bar perform a surgery on you. Trump is nothing more than an incompetent loudmouth and his erratic policies prove it. Whether he wears the label Republican or Democrat doesn't change the fact that he is unfit for the office he holds.

 

[secondasky]

Hospitalization has surged , but deaths have not. Give it a week or two. You are correct about the surge for new cases, but sadly the hospitals and death surge will be next for states opening too quickly. A perfect example is NYC. They had huge protests, yet their numbers are way down. Hong Kong, even though their population is one of the densest in the world, has very few deaths. Why? Because they actually comply and wear masks.

Agreed on the deaths but they are countable. That's why I only mentioned it would be good to see numbers on hospitalizations too but that won't happen.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

https://t.co/JjYw9XCn4j

Clemson has 14 more positive tests

View embedded media

"0 hospitalizations" of those players. Good

How about the friends, family and strangers that those players infected and that those people then infected? I am not blaming the players for anything, but the coaches have to be more responsible in their comments.

 

[DANC]

I think there's a better than even chance that his financial records will reflect that he's massively indebted to Russian oligarchs with close ties to Putin. This would explain a lot, including his disgraceful comments in Helsinki two years ago, and his failure to act in connection with intelligence reflecting that Putin offered bounties to Taliban militants to kill U.S. troops in Afghanistan. It's looking more and more like this presidency is not going to end well for 45.

Your breathless reporting of the Taliban being paid by the Russians has been debunked - based on nothing but rumor from - guess who? - the NYTimes. Now there's a real objective source.

 

[DANC]

I consider myself a moderate and politically independent. My problem is not with Republican or conservative ideology but a personal one with Donald Trump's corruption and incompetence. If I have a problem with Republicans, it's with those who are willing to protect this fool who are putting party ahead of country. Trump has no ideology other than his own self-interest. He's a narcissist concerned only with how he is perceived and the things that can bring him praise and adoration. He doesn't give a crap about policy or US interests. He simply gravitates to issues and positions that generate publicity and the appearance that he is a tough guy. He can't articulate a rational argument on any substantive issue.

I understand the support for him in 2016 given the frustrations of voters with the way Washington works and the disdain for Hillary Clinton. But his campaign was based on bullshit, false bravado, and unrealistic promises. Four years later we know who he is (and really always was). My now 83- year-old father bought in hook, line, and sinker because he thought Trump was not a politician. Now he knows better. As I tried to explain to him in 2016 that because you might hate every doctor in your local hospital, you still wouldn't let the loudmouth drunk from the corner stool of the local bar perform a surgery on you. Trump is nothing more than an incompetent loudmouth and his erratic policies prove it. Whether he wears the label Republican or Democrat doesn't change the fact that he is unfit for the office he holds.

 

[secondasky]

I consider myself a moderate and politically independent. My problem is not with Republican or conservative ideology but a personal one with Donald Trump's corruption and incompetence. If I have a problem with Republicans, it's with those who are willing to protect this fool who are putting party ahead of country. Trump has no ideology other than his own self-interest. He's a narcissist concerned only with how he is perceived and the things that can bring him praise and adoration. He doesn't give a crap about policy or US interests. He simply gravitates to issues and positions that generate publicity and the appearance that he is a tough guy. He can't articulate a rational argument on any substantive issue.

I understand the support for him in 2016 given the frustrations of voters with the way Washington works and the disdain for Hillary Clinton. But his campaign was based on bullshit, false bravado, and unrealistic promises. Four years later we know who he is (and really always was). My now 83- year-old father bought in hook, line, and sinker because he thought Trump was not a politician. Now he knows better. As I tried to explain to him in 2016 that because you might hate every doctor in your local hospital, you still wouldn't let the loudmouth drunk from the corner stool of the local bar perform a surgery on you. Trump is nothing more than an incompetent loudmouth and his erratic policies prove it. Whether he wears the label Republican or Democrat doesn't change the fact that he is unfit for the office he holds.

Actually there are some things you have posted that I can't argue with. But the fact was for a lot of people it was a choice between who would do less damage to America. And for that matter some of those things you mentioned could be used as a description for his opponent by many. Trump was my last choice on that debate stand of 16 people running for the republican nominee. Still there are things his opponent would have cancelled out if elected, which he has followed through on. Increased military spending, curbing illegal immigration, conservative judges, deregulation. Those aren't bs promises. Can you imagine the chaos if there were open borders right now? In my business I haven't heard one complaint about deregulation. Defense spending is a must whether we like it or not and without a good defense nothing else matters. Both parties have kicked the can down the road on China and illegal immigration. Not popular causes but still important ones that must be addressed. I liked what I heard from Howard Schultz (moderate left) who considered running in 2020 as an independent but was shut down by the liberal left and their media wing.



I

 

[IU_Hickory]

Deregulation hurts the environment and completely ignores the issue of global warming. what? so oil and car companies can make an extra buck on top of their billions in profit.

Didn't realize you were native american, otherwise American's open borders has benefited yourself.

Guess you're ok with Trump shunning our countries allies and buddying up with Russia and NK while one puts bounties on our soldiers and the other continues their nuclear ambitions.

The right pretends to be the religious party while they elect a multiple-time adulterer, racist, prostitute using, sexual assualt bragging person who could care less about anyone but themselves as he downplays covid to try to save the economy for his re-election efforts. The right lost any moral high ground they thought they had when they impeached Clinton over being an adulterer once.

 

[IU_Hickory]

want to blame the spike on outdoor protests (where it doesn't spread as easily) but ignore trump's indoor rally (where it would spread more easily. Also ignoring the fact that the spikes aren't happening where the protests occurred.

Head in the sand.

A lot of the spikes are happening in the red states where republican governors are at... yup just a coincidence.

 

[Bowlmania]

Your breathless reporting of the Taliban being paid by the Russians has been debunked - based on nothing but rumor from - guess who? - the NYTimes. Now there's a real objective source.

Debunked by whom? Putin? Trump? You?

"We need to get to the bottom of it and we need to do it now . . . Anything with any hint of credibility that would endanger our service members, much less put a bounty on their lives, to me should have been briefed immediately to the Commander-in-Chief and a plan to deal with that situation." - Rep. Mac Thornberry (R-Texas), Ranking Member Armed Services Committee, 6/29/20.
https://www.stripes.com/news/middle...entagon-on-reported-russian-bounties-1.635568

 

[DANC]

Debunked by whom? Putin? Trump? You?

"We need to get to the bottom of it and we need to do it now . . . Anything with any hint of credibility that would endanger our service members, much less put a bounty on their lives, to me should have been briefed immediately to the Commander-in-Chief and a plan to deal with that situation." - Rep. Mac Thornberry (R-Texas), Ranking Member Armed Services Committee, 6/29/20.
https://www.stripes.com/news/middle...entagon-on-reported-russian-bounties-1.635568

Debunked because there is not a shred of evidence it is true.

Much like the 'Russian Collusion' hoax perpetrated by the previous administration. The Democrats don't want to admit Trump has had success in drawing down US troops in Afghanistan, so they are trying to gin up another phony story.

And you just keep falling for it.

 

[Bowlmania]

Debunked because there is not a shred of evidence it is true.

Interesting that the Ranking Member of the Armed Services Committee has definitely not arrived at this conclusion, but you have. Lol.

 

[DANC]

Interesting that the Ranking Member of the Armed Services Committee has definitely not arrived at this conclusion, but you have. Lol.

LOL He's arrived at no such conclusion. He says he wants to get to the bottom of it. That means he wants to find all the facts before he draws a conclusion. You should have learned how to discern the difference in elementary school.

It's all rumor and BS designed to influence the 2000 election. If you're so sure, provide evidence to change my mind. By the way, no evidence was presented in your Bible, the NYT.

 

[Bowlmania]

LOL He's arrived at no such conclusion. He says he wants to get to the bottom of it. That means he wants to find all the facts before he draws a conclusion. You should have learned how to discern the difference in elementary school.

It's all rumor and BS designed to influence the 2000 election. If you're so sure, provide evidence to change my mind. By the way, no evidence was presented in your Bible, the NYT.

I'd be happy to continue this discussion with you on the Water Cooler, which is really where it belongs.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Your breathless reporting of the Taliban being paid by the Russians has been debunked - based on nothing but rumor from - guess who? - the NYTimes. Now there's a real objective source.

It’s been debunked? Lol. Confirmed by WaPo, NYT, AP, that liberal bastion WSJ, British reporting etc. Someone high up in intel is ticked Trump ignored this. And rightly so. Traitor Trump.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Debunked because there is not a shred of evidence it is true.

Much like the 'Russian Collusion' hoax perpetrated by the previous administration. The Democrats don't want to admit Trump has had success in drawing down US troops in Afghanistan, so they are trying to gin up another phony story.

And you just keep falling for it.

Russian hoax? Lmao. Let me guess... you didn’t read the Mueller book, or the Bolton one for that matter. It’s pathetic you are making excuses for him putting up with bounties on our troops. Aren’t you supposed to put your country ahead of everything? Traitor Trump.