I started out smart, then failed my way to moran.
Chiefs fans
- Thread starter Marvin the Martian
- Start date
Smarts don’t mean shit when they’re torpedoed by a strong self destructive streak! Ugh
I put myself through college first and earned the most marketable business degree at the time - Quantitative Business Analysis. I didn’t have to join the military, I wanted to join and serve my country. I planned to do four years, get out and get rich. Or at least try. I ended up finding that leading officers and Sailors in the service of our country was what I wanted to do. I was “rich” in another way.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
I have a serious question for you:
Do you believe whites are the only group in the country that are racist?
The answer takes some explaining. Anyone can be bigoted. A Black can believe Blacks are superior. A gay can believe gays are superior. Whites can feel they are superior. Tall people can feel they are superior. Any member of any group can do that.
Racism requires the ability to negatively impact people of another race. The wino on the street may hate Blacks but he lacks much power to be a racist (unless he physically attacks Blacks)
So it is harder for a Black to be racist. Blacks are less involved in hiring/firing. They are less likely to be judges, lawmakers, etc. Whites own a fair amount of the power in the country.
But yes, if a Black officer stops Whites because he believes Whites are inferior, he/she is racist. But generally speaking Blacks have fewer levels of power. Some gangs may easily be racist, I have not looked up how many Black gangs routinely attack other races because of race. But the Jets and Sharks both were.
So it does happen but much less often.
Some progressive friends complain about an economic draft. I disagree with them, I see it as an opportunity. But I do wish we had more CCC like opportunities for those not militarily inclined.
Disagree Marv. I think racism is a belief. I don't think power or influence is an element. a consequence perhaps, but not an element of defining racism. a person without a nickel to his name or an ounce of influence can certainly be racist
Ah ha!!!!
Kind of like a football stadium is for something called a “football game” rather than political commentary.
You knocked it out of the park on that one!
Interesting comments.
I’ve heard this false argument before from a black friend from college who said he could never be racist because he was “outnumbered” in this country.. That doesn’t line up with the generally accepted definition of “racism” which is hatred of another ethnic group due to different traits within races that are perceived to be superior or inferior.
It does not have a direct link to who has more population of their own race.
Whether it a black man being attacked in a predominantly white neighborhood or a white guy walking through a black neighborhood and being lucky to escape with your own life.
No difference.
Here is the link to Meriam-Webster. Look at definition 2A. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism
That is how I use racism to differentiate it from prejudice, bias, and bigotry. Otherwise we have a whole lot of exactly identical words.
That whole needing power thing to be racist is a crock of shit, sorry. It is changing a definition to make sure that basically only white people can be racist in this country which is B.S. If you judge a group of people based on race you are a racist and a bigot. Bigotry can cover more categories, so not every bigot is a racist but every racist is a bigot.
How would you differentiate between someone who hates Blacks quietly in their home but no one ever knows and someone who refuses to rent apartments to Blacks?
We cannot force someone to think all races are equal. We can force them to treat Blacks equally under the law.
If a doctor that believrs Blacks are inferior but still treats them as they would a white, I do not give a damn about their bigotry. I have no known way to change it.
This is why I find LBJ and Truman interesting. Neither believed Blacks to be equal. But both made tremendous gains for Civil Rights because somewhere deep down they let their duty overcome their bigotry.
Earlier I did call them racist, but bigot fits better. When called on, they met the challenge.
That said, as I link above there are 2 definitions. I am using the second, it is your choice to use whichever you like.
Assimilation!?
Many the statistics show that black young men graduating high school in many large cities can't read or do math. Addressing that issue is not "successful assimilation" Sope. Our record of educating blacks males is disgraceful. That disgrace seeps into everything that a human being needs to do to live a satisfying life. Poor education is a gateway to gangs, lack of jobs, drugs, and prison. And yeah, it deprives many of achieving the dream MLK talked about. Better education may not be a panacea, but it is as good as a place to start as anything. It certainly is a better place to start than fooling around with police or criminal justice reform where the results of our badly educated individuals show up.
Poverty levels were at record lows and family inome increases reached levels not seen for decades before the virus hit. That's great news for millions of people. Yet many are left behind, not because of systemic racism, but because they can't read or do math at a level needed for good jobs. If there is a culture issue here, it might be because education is not cool for some. If there is systemic racism at work here, it's in an education system that makes Black males the worst educated group in the country. We can address both. We aren't talking about food and music here.
Yet we know integration helped Black education yet we refuse any attempts to foster integration. From https://www.chalkbeat.org/2019/7/1/...segregation-succeed-here-s-what-research-says:
To isolate the impact of court-ordered school integration in the 1960s, ‘70s, and ‘80s, Johnson used two strategies. First, he compared students in the same school district right before and after court-ordered integration was put in place. Second, he compared pairs of siblings, when one went to integrated schools but the other didn’t.
His conclusions were similar: integration helped black students academically and into adulthood.
The effects were quite large: going to integrated schools for an additional five years caused high school graduation rates to jump by nearly 15 percentage points and reduced the likelihood of living in poverty by 11 percentage points.
In a follow-up analysis, Johnson found that these benefits extended to the next generation. The children of those who attended integrated schools had higher test scores and were more likely to attend college, too.
A few things.
First, if you are correct in that integrated schools positively impact black students, that seems to prove my point that this whole idea is critical race theory is wrong. The presence of “whiteness” is a positive. I agree with integration in all areas of life, not just education. We’ve integrated police decades ago. Yet the black and white protesters/rioters see that as a negative. Notwithstanding our best efforts, segregation is becoming acceptable and desirable for some people of color, (black dorms, black graduation, black national anthem) that’s a bad thing.
Second, notwithstanding general overall better education for blacks, black young men remain at the bottom of the heap in performance. This is partly due to the built in bias against all boys in K-12 education which I believe exists, but is also due to other social factors. When you look at improved educational performance for students of color, the improvement is heavily concentrated with females.
Finally, bussing seems like a band-aid. We need to examine and correct the deficiencies in schools, not avoid them with bussing. I think there is more to this than the mere presence of white kids and staff. I think we are on the wrong track if we perpetuate the notion of negative whiteness like the Smithsonian did or if we view the issue as successful assimilation as Sope argues.
As I said before, CO, that ship has sailed. You can't put that genie back in the bottle.
As an extreme far right assimilationist, you're hopelessly wedded to having a dominant white culture into which Blacks and Latinx "fit" via assimiliation. You don't understand that the unintended dynamic unleashed by segregation is the development of, rise, and potential dominance of alternative cultures.
You've lost the argument already.
Bussing brought problems, I'm not at all jumping on a bussing bandwagon. But we have known for a long time that separate but equal is not equal. We need to find a way to integrate society. But we refuse. We know Obama signed an order to try and get more Blacks out to suburbia, we know Trump doesn't like the idea. But in the end, that IS what we need. We need more Black famalies in suburbia and more White famalies in the city.
As to "(black dorms, black graduation, black national anthem)", at least part of that is due to the separation we have. We live in different neighborhoods and attend different churches. I've asked this often here, how often do the Whites on this board attend a mostly Black church? So is it only up to Blacks to integrate and not Whites? Because kids grow up segregated they stay that way. We know the Greek system is mostly White.
Here is some information on the Greek system:
As Cornell’s official website states, while only 2 percent of America’s population is involved in fraternities, 80 percent of Fortune 500 executives, 76 percent of U.S. senators and congressmen, 85 percent of Supreme Court justices, and all but two presidents since 1825 have been fraternity men, according to Cornell.
Now racism need not be even the chief problem to the integration of Greek life:At University of North Carolina, for example, average fraternity board and dues is $2,970 per semester; at a more expensive university, such as Kansas University, this figure could inflate to $5,300. This amounts to almost $18,000—but could be more than $30,000—for three years in Greek housing (sophomore through senior year). Even with a payment plan, students at the bottom of the income ladder, who are already struggling with debt and working part-time, would have to sacrifice much more to join a Greek house.
Both of those quoted paragraphs came from https://tcf.org/content/commentary/separate-but-unequal-in-college-greek-life/?session=1
So we already have a system that segregates by income which will lead to racial segregation even if there are no racists at all anywhere in colleges.
We know that zoning plays a role. Single-family zoning with large lot size requirements certainly impacts the people who can move into an area. So zone one side of town with that, zone another with high density apartments, and wonder why most of the Whites live on one side and most of the Blacks on another. And that's just inside of a town, it doesn't get to the Obama regulation where we build suburbs to specifically be upper-middle class.
Going back to Black dorms, do you recall why Larry Bird left Indiana University? If you do, you don't think that plays out when poor kids who aren't used to being around wealthier kids meet in college.
Wisman's father was a mail carrier, and though his family was by no means wealthy, he seemed plenty well-to-do in Bird's eyes. "I made a mistake rooming Bird with Jim Wisman," Knight later said. "Bird had no clothes, and Wisman's closet was full. Wisman was real smart and could speak well. Bird was not, and couldn't, at age eighteen." Though Wisman generously told Larry he could wear his clothes whenever he wanted and even lent him money from time to time, Larry knew that couldn't last. On several occasions, he called home and told Georgia he wanted to leave, but she convinced him to stay.
If we wait until college to integrate society, we have waited way too long. We need to find ways to stop segregating America by race/income of families. I don't have an answer to it, but I suspect changing zoning so we intermix apartments and single-family is the way to go. You build a gated community starting at Main Street, you put a mobile home park or apartments across the street from the gate. You put the kids from both into the same schools, maybe put a park easily accessible by both.I do think our income segregation makes the racial segragation seem worse than it really is. The average multi-millionaire doesn't want Mark moving his mobile home across the street any more than having a poor Black family move in across the street. But add in some racism on to the economic and the problem becomes even more pronounced.
white flight has its roots in black crime, both perceived and real. the city of saint louis underwent massive white flight owing to crime and poor school systems. one can get on the slmpd website and see exactly where crimes are committed and by what race. unless and until that's remedied bedroom communities will continue to grow. the current environment will only lead to further segregation as we have images of unrest in urban cores coupled with covid density and people wanting more space.
White flight was similar in Indy. Carmel, Avon, and Greenwood were teeny, tiny places back in the 70s. Now they have some of the biggest schools in Indiana. The towns were much smaller than my hometown, now they are bigger. I don't have a good answer, but we need one. We have smart people.
It is hard when we look at Appalachia. Here are the graduation rates, as an area it averages 82% which is just under the US as a whole. But if we look at eastern Kentucky it is pretty bad. Pretty much average for inner cities.
That is a problem too. Even harder to solve I suspect as integration out of an entire region is much harder. But it goes to the point, the problem in inner city schools is not racial. Very poor Whites struggle with education.
I don't have an answer. But as I suggested earlier, separate but equal is not equal and does not work. I don't know how to get us to live in diverse communities economically, let alone racially. But I do think we need to try.
Agreed on all frontsWhite flight was similar in Indy. Carmel, Avon, and Greenwood were teeny, tiny places back in the 70s. Now they have some of the biggest schools in Indiana. The towns were much smaller than my hometown, now they are bigger. I don't have a good answer, but we need one. We have smart people.
It is hard when we look at Appalachia. Here are the graduation rates, as an area it averages 82% which is just under the US as a whole. But if we look at eastern Kentucky it is pretty bad. Pretty much average for inner cities.
That is a problem too. Even harder to solve I suspect as integration out of an entire region is much harder. But it goes to the point, the problem in inner city schools is not racial. Very poor Whites struggle with education.
I don't have an answer. But as I suggested earlier, separate but equal is not equal and does not work. I don't know how to get us to live in diverse communities economically, let alone racially. But I do think we need to try.
Huh. I wonder how they decided to include Cherokee and Gwinnett Counties in Georgia, while excluding Fulton and Cobb Counties.White flight was similar in Indy. Carmel, Avon, and Greenwood were teeny, tiny places back in the 70s. Now they have some of the biggest schools in Indiana. The towns were much smaller than my hometown, now they are bigger. I don't have a good answer, but we need one. We have smart people.
It is hard when we look at Appalachia. Here are the graduation rates, as an area it averages 82% which is just under the US as a whole. But if we look at eastern Kentucky it is pretty bad. Pretty much average for inner cities.
That is a problem too. Even harder to solve I suspect as integration out of an entire region is much harder. But it goes to the point, the problem in inner city schools is not racial. Very poor Whites struggle with education.
I don't have an answer. But as I suggested earlier, separate but equal is not equal and does not work. I don't know how to get us to live in diverse communities economically, let alone racially. But I do think we need to try.
Interesting that Appalachia extends to NE Mississippi, including Tupelo.
White flight was similar in Indy. Carmel, Avon, and Greenwood were teeny, tiny places back in the 70s. Now they have some of the biggest schools in Indiana. The towns were much smaller than my hometown, now they are bigger. I don't have a good answer, but we need one. We have smart people.
It is hard when we look at Appalachia. Here are the graduation rates, as an area it averages 82% which is just under the US as a whole. But if we look at eastern Kentucky it is pretty bad. Pretty much average for inner cities.
That is a problem too. Even harder to solve I suspect as integration out of an entire region is much harder. But it goes to the point, the problem in inner city schools is not racial. Very poor Whites struggle with education.
I don't have an answer. But as I suggested earlier, separate but equal is not equal and does not work. I don't know how to get us to live in diverse communities economically, let alone racially. But I do think we need to try.
Agree with you yo to the last paragraph. It is not a racial issue, it is economic. As to diversifying communities (economically) I am not on board. Like it or not, crime follows poverty. Having a large poor presence mixed into an area with a bunch of people who are more affluent is a recipe for more break ins. It also leads to devaluation on most people's largest investment, their property. I don't want my backyard to back up to a rent stabilized apartment. Why? Because crime follows those.
I know that makes me the "bad guy" but whatever.
Yep, I am pretty sure the Appalachia Trail starts in Georgia. I'd think being west of that would be a disqualifier.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
So if we can all agree that very poor whites and very poor blacks have it very badly, why is nearly everything viewed through the lens of racism rather than economics?White flight was similar in Indy. Carmel, Avon, and Greenwood were teeny, tiny places back in the 70s. Now they have some of the biggest schools in Indiana. The towns were much smaller than my hometown, now they are bigger. I don't have a good answer, but we need one. We have smart people.
It is hard when we look at Appalachia. Here are the graduation rates, as an area it averages 82% which is just under the US as a whole. But if we look at eastern Kentucky it is pretty bad. Pretty much average for inner cities.
That is a problem too. Even harder to solve I suspect as integration out of an entire region is much harder. But it goes to the point, the problem in inner city schools is not racial. Very poor Whites struggle with education.
I don't have an answer. But as I suggested earlier, separate but equal is not equal and does not work. I don't know how to get us to live in diverse communities economically, let alone racially. But I do think we need to try.
Yep. Dropped off MrsSope's niece just north of Dahlonega at the southern trailhead twice about 25 years ago. The first time we dropped her off in mid-March; she had 2 dogs with her and it snowed about 8 inches after a tornado went through the area . . . had to pick her up that time. The second time we dropped her off in early April; she was alone, and made the entire trail by the following fall without incident.
NE Alabama down through Birmingham is definitely in Appalachia . . . I've always thought that Atlanta was a gentile part of it too.
Why are more Blacks poor than Whites? Is there any chance at all that racism has played a role in that?
On Edit - more by percentage and not total number
There are whole books written on that subject. One short answer: to make poor whites believe they have it "better" so they don't think of themselves as having anything in common with any Blacks. FDR's coalition, largely through the efforts of Eleanor, drove through that smoke screen . . . and I know people who weren't alive when FDR was president who hate him for it.
I’m on board with housing integration and mixtures of income groups in housing areas. Like most worthwhile objectives though, politicians overreach to attract more votes. I don’t agree with the feds overriding local zoning to achieve some vague federal integration goal. I am in favor of economic development and incentives that encourage housing diversity.
Strangely this is meeting more and more asymmetrical resistance. I think gentrification is by and large good, but we need to also preserve income-qualified housing. Most of the objections seem to be more cultural than racial. Blacks object to Starbucks and other cutsie eateries where local bars used to be. Whites don’t want a Walmart or Target where they think a Whole Foods or Sprouts belong. It’s a complicated problem.
Then overlaying all of this is the trendy anti-assimilation idea Sope keeps harping about. That claims to be anti-racist. Anti-assimilation looks like racial separatism with a fresh coat of acceptable paint.
Bottom line is we need integration at all levels of life. To fully achieve that, we also need to begin with educational improvement.
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Last night's ratings.... down 16+%
NFL ratings: Initial results show decline for K.C.-Houston kickoff game
Initial ratings for the NFL's kickoff game show a decline from 2019's numbers. Here are some explanations.sports.yahoo.com
lol the hits keep coming
ESPN's Week 1 Monday Night Football ratings fall 17%
Monday Night Football's doubleheader featuring the New York Giants and Pittsburgh Steelers attracted 10.7 million viewers, while the second contest registered 7.6 million viewers.
NFL ratings: 'Monday Night Football' Week 1 doubleheader ratings crash
Amid nationa anthem protests NFL ratings dropped dramatically during Week 1 of the season culiminating in Monday Night Football.
sportsnaut.com
the difference in viewership between the nba and nfl is insane. i read that game six of the nuggets clippers had 1.3 million viewers and the nfl game had over 20 million.NFL ratings: 'Monday Night Football' Week 1 doubleheader ratings crash
Amid nationa anthem protests NFL ratings dropped dramatically during Week 1 of the season culiminating in Monday Night Football.
NFL ratings: 'Monday Night Football' Week 1 doubleheader ratings crash
Amid nationa anthem protests NFL ratings dropped dramatically during Week 1 of the season culiminating in Monday Night Football.
There is some strangeness in the numbers. Fox's regional games had higher ratings than last year (Sunday at 1) as did the Fox Sunday at 4 game. My take is people tuned in to watch their team, or Brady-Brees, but not teams they had no vested interest in.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thespun.com/nfl/tv-ratings-are-in-for-the-nfls-week-1-games/amp
I have not seen numbers, but attendance seems way down
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Here is another example of how I would say racism should be viewed. If someone says to themselves that interracial marriage is wrong and refuses to consider marrying outside their race (or it could happen with religion but I'm sticking here to race), that may be bigotry but I wouldn't consider it racism. Plus we have no way of policing that view so it is irrelevant what we think of the view. But if that person harasses interracial couples or tries to bar interracial marriage of others, then that is racism. In this way members of any race can be racist.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
I was asked by a poster if Blacks can be racist. I said yes but the power structure makes it less likely. Two posters did not like that answer, so I was just trying to further explain it.
I suspect the number of people who prefer to be around members of a similar race, or religion, or income, or interest, to be quite high. The concern comes when they work to belittle or harm other groups. It is the action we have to deal with. It is the action of one preferring their own group that is the problem.
What, there are no white men who have abandoned their families or white folks who have no regard for education?
I suggest that you do a demographics study on all those UK-blue counties in eastern Kentucky in the map Marvin provided above and get back to us with the single parent households and racial breakdown of those households . . . .
