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Bye bye, Johnny...

IMHO it's his connections to people (World Wide Wes / NBA General Managers and personnel people), along with the fact that he makes it known he's trying to get kids to the NBA first and foremost. The whole college thing is secondary, and many of one-and-dones could really care less about having to do college; it's that obligatory step they have to take to get where they want to go.

And despite what Cal says about the "lifetime scholarship", I don't get the feeling most of his kids are serious about a degree or trying to pursue one. After UK's response during the Bledsoe controversy, I have doubts as to how demanding the 1-year curriculum is in Lexington.


You should probably add, "He gets high class hookers, unlike the skanks that Louisville gets......and the untraceable debit cards don't hurt either."
 
Cal coaches 30+ games a year and wins most of them. And he makes a lot of money. He also gets the best recruits so why leave.
 
I think the problem with cal is this. He has a brand. His brand is to get kids to come to ky because it's "the best" program to get players to the NBA.

We as fans don't agree with this approach but kids these days do. You can't argue with his recruiting success. He's in another league when it comes to recruiting however he's a total cheat.

Why do kids see ky as the premier program? Because they do.
Follow the $money !
 
The "Only 1 title" argument against Cal is pretty silly imo.

He's had the best team in the country more times than once. So has Self, So has Izzo.

The tournament is a crapshoot, and while titles are obviously what you strive for, they are an imperfect measurement for evaluating coaches.

If it was a best of 7 format, you bet your ass that Cal, Izzo, and Self would have more than one title, and K would definitely have fewer than 5, he backed his way into more than his fair share.

It's exactly this emphasis on tournament success that causes people to conclude stupid shit like "Sean Miller can't close" or "Kevin Ollie is a good coach".
 
The tournament is a crapshoot, and while titles are obviously what you strive for, they are an imperfect measurement for evaluating coaches.

I'd take Izzo over Calipari as a coach everytime.

Can you imagine Izzo have a roster of talent like that and after a guy like Barrett torches them for 38 points saying "R.J. had it going. I told the team after the game, I needed to try some different things — go zone, trap pick and roll, trap him. I kind of rode it because I thought we would figure out something, and that is my mistake. That’s not these kids’ mistake.”

"because I thought we would figure out something"? No, IZZO would have figured out something, not let the players go without direction. Isn't that what a coach is supposed to do?
 
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I'd take Izzo over Calipari as a coach everytime.

Can you imagine Izzo have a roster of talent like that and after a guy like Barrett torches them for 38 points saying "R.J. had it going. I told the team after the game, I needed to try some different things — go zone, trap pick and roll, trap him. I kind of rode it because I thought we would figure out something, and that is my mistake. That’s not these kids’ mistake.”

"because I thought we would figure out something"? No, IZZO would have figured out something, not let the players go without direction. Isn't that what a coach is supposed to do?
I think you'd be surprised how often truly outstanding coaches are left scratching their heads in an effort to figure out how to stop a particular player or opponent or otherwise respond to certain game situation. You obviously never followed Knight if you're not aware of this.
 
I think you'd be surprised how often truly outstanding coaches are left scratching their heads in an effort to figure out how to stop a particular player or opponent or otherwise respond to certain game situation. You obviously never followed Knight if you're not aware of this.
I understand coaches being perplexed.

Having said that, tell me the time RMK was quoted as saying "I kinda rode it because I thought we would figure out something". I'll sit back and wait . . .
 
I understand coaches being perplexed.

Having said that, tell me the time RMK was quoted as saying "I kinda rode it because I thought we would figure out something". I'll sit back and wait . . .
Tell me about the times Knigt acknowledged he made the wrong moves in a game, costing his team. It happened, even if he wasn't always as candid as Calipari. I doubt you have any insight to them, including the most famous one, but that's hardly surprising.

As to the inane suggestion the the U19 loss was somehow Cal's fault, you must actually think the best 19's were on the team, or you must be oblivious to the fact that the US went 1-6 in this tournament from 1995 to 2011. Cal wasn't the coach during that stretch, by the way. If you know anyone who knows basketball, you should check with them on these matters.
 
In other words, you don't have any idea. Do you have any friends who know IU and / or college basketball. Check with them.
No, I don't know of any times RMK said what I quoted. Then, again, I never claimed he said anything remotely close.

You did:

Tell me about the times Knigt acknowledged he made the wrong moves in a game, costing his team. It happened, even if he wasn't always as candid as Calipari.

You said it happened, not me.

So is this just your usual line of B.S.? Or can you actually offer up any instances? Prob not . . . as expected.
 
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No, I don't know of any times RMK said what I quoted. Then, again, I never claimed he said anything remotely close.

You did:



You said it happened, not me.

So is this just your usual line of B.S.? Or can you actually offer up any instances? Prob not . . . as expected.
Of course it's happened. Google IU v. UK from the 1975, since you obviously aren't a student of IU hoops.I just wanted to see if you were aware of it, which you're obviously not.

More telling, of course, is you avoiding the question of whether the US19 team was comprised of the country's best players, something that you should've pondered before your simplistic suggestion that the loss should be blamed on Calipari. That you weren't aware of the previous records of US19 teams only underscores your lack of hoops knowledge, as does your knowledge of the roster and who wasn't on the team. If you have any friends who know college basketball, you should check with them next time.
 
Of course it's happened. Google IU v. UK from the 1975, since you obviously aren't a student of IU hoops.I just wanted to see if you were aware of it, which you're obviously not.

More telling, of course, is you avoiding the question of whether the US19 team was comprised of the country's best players, something that you should've pondered before your simplistic suggestion that the loss should be blamed on Calipari. That you weren't aware of the previous records of US19 teams only underscores your lack of hoops knowledge, as does your knowledge of the roster and who wasn't on the team. If you have any friends who know college basketball, you should check with them next time.

1) Provide the quote. You said it happened, provide it.

2)"Not the best players" lol

How much talent does this great coach need? And you seem to forget he had a large say in the makeup of the team?
 
Calipari is arrogant, condescending, and a horrible in-game coach who choked again in a game in which he didn't hold a superior edge in talent. If this tells anything to the recruits it is not to go to UK and play for Calipari.
 
1) Provide the quote. You said it happened, provide it.

2)"Not the best players" lol

How much talent does this great coach need? And you seem to forget he had a large say in the makeup of the team?
1. Are you really not familiar with Knight's lament about starting Scott May against UK in the 1975 NCAA tournament? Like I said, an IU hoops fan is well aware of this;
2. How many points did Michael Porter have yesterday? What was Alonzo Ball's stat line in the game?

How much talent does any coach need? You should check with six of the seven US coaches from 1995 to 2011 for your answer. Most of them are recognizable names, even for a casual fan like yourself. Why didn't they win? Were they all as bad as Calipari? Lol
 
1. Are you really not familiar with Knight's lament about starting Scott May against UK in the 1975 NCAA tournament? Like I said, an IU hoops fan is well aware of this;

Lol - that's the best you got? Second guess a MADE decision vs "I kinda rode it out because I thought we'd figure something out" aren't even remotely close!!

You're not real good at this, are you?

2. How many points did Michael Porter have yesterday? What was Alonzo Ball's stat line in the game?

How much talent does any coach need?

Calipari must need a bunch - just like I've been trying to tell you he wouldn't have the same results at UK if they change the rule. But you've insisted nothing will change; he'll still dominate. Yet now you're making excuses for the guy because he doesn't have the best talent.

Keep going, genius. Haven't had this much fun in a long time.:D
 
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You failed to answer - again - the simple question: WHAT does Calipari do to prepare players better? How are they "better prepared" by playing at UK than at Duke, Michigan St, Kansas, etc . . . ?

I'm very aware of what he sells. Again, its a generalized statement - by him and you. The hard data (lol at that one) is that players he's had that have been drafted into the NBA would have been drafted into the NBA anyways in the same amount of time had they played elsewhere. And you've not provided a single example of a kid that CALIPARI has developed and prepared "better". If he does such a great job at doing that, why can't you provide that example?
The only thing it could be is conditioning. Calisnarli's videoed practices look fairly intense to me but who knows if that's authentic.
 
The only thing it could be is conditioning. Calisnarli's videoed practices look fairly intense to me but who knows if that's authentic.
I will throw this out. If you take the consensus top coaches and their records divided by total stars 5*, 4* etc. per roster per year who's record is tops All math whiz kid's or senior's please answer our quiz .
 
Lol - that's the best you got? Second guess a MADE decision vs "I kinda rode it out because I thought we'd figure something out" aren't even remotely close!!

You're not real good at this, are you?



Calipari must need a bunch - just like I've been trying to tell you he wouldn't have the same results at UK if they change the rule. But you've insisted nothing will change; he'll still dominate. Yet now you're making excuses for the guy because he doesn't have the best talent.

Keep going, genius. Haven't had this much fun in a long time.:D
Not surprising that you continue to avoid the issues. Both expose you for not having even a basic understanding of the subject matter. You need to get to know some people who understand basketball or you'll continue to look foolish. On the other hand, you seem to enjoy it. Like I said, if you could address any of this intelligently, you would. That you can't says everything.
 
Cliff Alexander, Cheick Diallo and Josh Selby came in as top 5 recruits too.

Is Bill Self a fraud?

You're right in the idea that Calipari probably isn't any better at developing players in their 9 months of CBB than any other top flight coach. Not much development you can do in that amount of time anyway.

But you ignore the fact that he's created the largest platform for these players, and convinced many media, players and the like that he does get them drafted higher and more frequently than any other coach.

Maybe you could call that being a "snake oil salesman". I think it's just that he's a good recruiter; and that wont change even if players are forced to stay in school for 12 years.

Actually, "if players are forced to stay in school for 12 years" (as you put it) or even just two years, it would change the attractiveness of Calipari's entire appeal to impressionable ego-oriented 16 and 17 year old high school players. No more can Cal claim "I'm the only/the best guy who can get you to the NBA," because several coaches could point to a two year track record of getting players into the NBA.

For another thing, Cal (and Roy Williams and Pitino for that matter) would have to pay much more attention to academic compliance -- the one-and-done-rule doesn't always allow the NCAA to catch up with players who half-heartedly attend class for just two semesters (just one in some cases).

Also, those coaches would possibly have to reconsider their recruiting of certain high schoolers who can't handle college academics (even under UNC standards). Faking academic competence for four semesters is harder than faking it for just two.
 
Not surprising that you continue to avoid the issues. Both expose you for not having even a basic understanding of the subject matter. You need to get to know some people who understand basketball or you'll continue to look foolish. On the other hand, you seem to enjoy it. Like I said, if you could address any of this intelligently, you would. That you can't says everything.
Keep trying, genius.

First it's "If they change they rule, Cal will still dominate".

Then it's "Cal didn't have Michael Porter".

You flop worse than a carp thrown on the bank of a river.
 
I will throw this out. If you take the consensus top coaches and their records divided by total stars 5*, 4* etc. per roster per year who's record is tops All math whiz kid's or senior's please answer our quiz .
You joined a conversation discussing whether Calipari is good at getting players into the NBA. You tried to change it to a discussion (with three incorrect uses of apostrophes) of the ratio of recruiting stars to win/loss records. Don't care.
 
Actually, "if players are forced to stay in school for 12 years" (as you put it) or even just two years, it would change the attractiveness of Calipari's entire appeal to impressionable ego-oriented 16 and 17 year old high school players. No more can Cal claim "I'm the only/the best guy who can get you to the NBA," because several coaches could point to a two year track record of getting players into the NBA.

For another thing, Cal (and Roy Williams and Pitino for that matter) would have to pay much more attention to academic compliance -- the one-and-done-rule doesn't always allow the NCAA to catch up with players who half-heartedly attend class for just two semesters (just one in some cases).

Also, those coaches would possibly have to reconsider their recruiting of certain high schoolers who can't handle college academics (even under UNC standards). Faking academic competence for four semesters is harder than faking it for just two.

You make a couple assumptions in here that make you look like a jackass.

1. The recruits Cal lands are by and large "impressionable and ego-oriented"

2. The players at U.K. that stay for only one year have no interest in academics, or at least less interest than their counterparts at IU, Duke, Kansas, etc.

I have some news for you. There are plenty of other Division 1 coaches who already have a great track record of getting players to the NBA, regardless of how many years they are in school.

Assuming, that high school recruits and their families are blind to that fact and somehow getting the Wool pulled over their eyes by Cal and his staff, just proves that you have a low opinion of the average high school recruit and the decision making process they go through when looking at schools.

Ever consider that maybe they choose Cal because they happen to like him more than the other coaches, and want to win basketball games?

Why does it all have to be so sinister?
 
You joined a conversation discussing whether Calipari is good at getting players into the NBA. You tried to change it to a discussion (with three incorrect uses of apostrophes) of the ratio of recruiting stars to win/loss records. Don't care.
Dear Tuffspot,,,,,,,,,,,,, When and how did your think this is my first post on Cal and big $green nation? I asked for a math whiz to answer kindly, not the Scarecrow of Oz!
 
Keep trying, genius.

First it's "If they change they rule, Cal will still dominate".

Then it's "Cal didn't have Michael Porter".

You flop worse than a carp thrown on the bank of a river.
I didn't flop at all. You just couldn't answer simple questions because it blew up your simplistic argument. Find some contacts who actually know something about basketball and you'll not look so uninformed.
 
I didn't flop at all. You just couldn't answer simple questions because it blew up your simplistic argument. Find some contacts who actually know something about basketball and you'll not look so uninformed.
Yes, you flopped. Worse than a bad NBA defender trying to draw a charge.

The essence of this entire discussion can be boiled down to this post:

I'm FULLY aware of that perception.

The current elite players buy into that because Calipari does a great job of selling. I've never for once discounted that ability he has to do that.

But, AGAIN, the current elite players are NBA-ready; they would get drafted high regardless of where they played in college. But IF there is a rule change and those NBA-ready kids can go straight to the league, the next level of recruits - while still good - will need someone who can help them develop into NBA-capable players.

Calipari may well still sell his program as the best way to get there. And, possibly, he might do it. But he has not demonstrated that he can develop that level of recruit into pros.

"he can develop that level of recruit into pros". Again, genius, (since you are all knowing :rolleyes:) just WHO has Calipari developed into a NBA-level player on a CONSISTENT basis that wasn't already going into the league no matter where they played? C'mon, genius, let's here about all these players that Cal churns out year after year?
 
Yes, you flopped. Worse than a bad NBA defender trying to draw a charge.

The essence of this entire discussion can be boiled down to this post:



"he can develop that level of recruit into pros". Again, genius, (since you are all knowing :rolleyes:) just WHO has Calipari developed into a NBA-level player on a CONSISTENT basis that wasn't already going into the league no matter where they played? C'mon, genius, let's here about all these players that Cal churns out year after year?
Smart to try and swerve away from the idiotic U19 position you took, since it so starkly exposed your lack of basketball knowledge. That you waded in without any understanding of the history of U19 made you an easy mark and only confirmed how little basis you have for your laughable opinions.

The rest is just your rooting bias, which overwhelms your simplistic view of Calipari. Basketball people would laugh at you out loud for how little you know versus how much you claim to understand. Just another jealous fan who's never been around the game beyond your espn viewing and Xbox gaming with your bros. Lol
 
Bottom line in 2017
Indiana basketball has been knocked from the elite ranks for many years and so far CAM has shown no ability to jump start recruiting

5 spots and no takers- OSU and Butler off to better starts with very delayed starts with new coaches as well as being more consistently relevant in past 20 years

Hate Ky and dislike Calipari but bottom line Ky basketball is relevent and dominating IU- unfortunately not much to suggest a change-

MSU, Michigan, Wisconsin have as well continued to dominate IU nationally

IU fans continue to live in the past- Knight era is ancient history
 
Actually, "if players are forced to stay in school for 12 years" (as you put it) or even just two years, it would change the attractiveness of Calipari's entire appeal to impressionable ego-oriented 16 and 17 year old high school players. No more can Cal claim "I'm the only/the best guy who can get you to the NBA," because several coaches could point to a two year track record of getting players into the NBA.

For another thing, Cal (and Roy Williams and Pitino for that matter) would have to pay much more attention to academic compliance -- the one-and-done-rule doesn't always allow the NCAA to catch up with players who half-heartedly attend class for just two semesters (just one in some cases).

Also, those coaches would possibly have to reconsider their recruiting of certain high schoolers who can't handle college academics (even under UNC standards). Faking academic competence for four semesters is harder than faking it for just two.
Actually UNC and UL have very few one and done players on their roster.
 
Smart to try and swerve away from the idiotic U19 position you took, since it so starkly exposed your lack of basketball knowledge. That you waded in without any understanding of the history of U19 made you an easy mark and only confirmed how little basis you have for your laughable opinions.

The rest is just your rooting bias, which overwhelms your simplistic view of Calipari. Basketball people would laugh at you out loud for how little you know versus how much you claim to understand. Just another jealous fan who's never been around the game beyond your espn viewing and Xbox gaming with your bros. Lol
Keep trying, genius.

What can't you name the players Cal has prepared better on an ANNUAL basis that weren't already 1-and-dones?

A tribute poster for you:

515c7d6cf9921bc4505453c0ef1a60f7--lebron-james-sport-quotes.jpg
 
Keep trying, genius.

What can't you name the players Cal has prepared better on an ANNUAL basis that weren't already 1-and-dones?

A tribute poster for you:

515c7d6cf9921bc4505453c0ef1a60f7--lebron-james-sport-quotes.jpg
Again, I understand why you keep changing the subject, as well as why you totally abandoned your inane commentary regarding the U19 team. I guess you concluded it was better to be a coward than a fool. Keep digging. It's fun to watch you bury yourself in ignorance.
 
Again, I understand why you keep changing the subject, as well as why you totally abandoned your inane commentary regarding the U19 team. I guess you concluded it was better to be a coward than a fool. Keep digging. It's fun to watch you bury yourself in ignorance.
Nice try, genius.

Got that list of players that Calipari has helped prepare better than his coaching peers yet? No, not the one that are only in college for a year because they can't go straight to the pros - the ones that are still really good (top 50) but not good enough for the NBA without being developed at the collegiate level. The ones Cal puts into the league on an ANNUAL basis, remember? Surely they're out there, right - because you TOLD us NOTHING will change if there is a modification to the NBA rule that requires HS players to wait a year after their HS class to be drafted. And he has been doing this on an annual basis, right?

Popcorn's poppin', genius. Let's hear 'em.
 
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