Bucket Game thought

[ESalum86]

Maybe this has been brought up before, but what if we reverse things and open the season playing for the Bucket? I hate the fact it is now played without students on campus, and also the same week as the IHSAA championship games.

I just believe the state's premier rivalry game should be played in front of students and it should also be a focus game for the state. Why go against OSU-UM, ND-USC (every other year), Bama-Auburn, etc., as another rivalry game. Even Army-Navy moved their game so they don't compete against conference championship games (which still ticks me off!).

Thoughts?

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

Maybe this has been brought up before, but what if we reverse things and open the season playing for the Bucket? I hate the fact it is now played without students on campus, and also the same week as the IHSAA championship games.

I just believe the state's premier rivalry game should be played in front of students and it should also be a focus game for the state. Why go against OSU-UM, ND-USC (every other year), Bama-Auburn, etc., as another rivalry game. Even Army-Navy moved their game so they don't compete against conference championship games (which still ticks me off!).

Thoughts?

Well Louisville/KY game was always the first game of the season. It became the event because it would be talked about all off season up to the kickoff. It really helped get excitement for the rest of the season. The problem was Kentucky was getting pounded and in true fashion didn’t want that played first anymore. They moved it to late or the last game now.

I️ think it would work well as the first game but we are in the same Conference so if may not work. Anyway.... it would bring the board alive when typically slow.

Most Bucket Games are tough and I️ expect nothing less from this years.

 

[jwboiler]

Maybe this has been brought up before, but what if we reverse things and open the season playing for the Bucket? I hate the fact it is now played without students on campus, and also the same week as the IHSAA championship games.

I just believe the state's premier rivalry game should be played in front of students and it should also be a focus game for the state. Why go against OSU-UM, ND-USC (every other year), Bama-Auburn, etc., as another rivalry game. Even Army-Navy moved their game so they don't compete against conference championship games (which still ticks me off!).

Thoughts?

Honestly, in the grand scheme of college football, the Bucket Game isn't really a rivalry. I don't know the last time this game sold out, besides the year Purdue went to the Rose Bowl in 2000. Real rivalries sell out games, and the fans actually care. There is very little passion for this game on the Purdue side most years...probably more this year since Hazell put our program in the abyss, and we are trying to get out of it. I suppose a win over a mediocre IU team would count as progress for Purdue this year. From IU's side a win over a talent deficient Purdue team will get you into another bad bowl game, which I guess isn't taking a step back. I guess until both programs are actually playing for something of relevance, I've never thought of the Bucket Game as anything besides the last game on the schedule.

I agree with the OP that it certainly could be moved to another time of the season, since by the time the game happens, it falls on Rivalry Week and gets zero attention from the media.

 

[jwboiler]

Well Louisville/KY game was always the first game of the season. It became the event because it would be talked about all off season up to the kickoff. It really helped get excitement for the rest of the season. The problem was Kentucky was getting pounded and in true fashion didn’t want that played first anymore. They moved it to late or the last game now.

I️ think it would work well as the first game but we are in the same Conference so if may not work. Anyway.... it would bring the board alive when typically slow.

Most Bucket Games are tough and I️ expect nothing less from this years.

I think this would be a very good idea, since now we are opening the season with in conference games (IU vs O$U this year...Purdue vs Northwestern next year). It would bring some excitement to the game and give the fan bases something to look forward to in the off season. It also wouldn't be the same weekend as the rest of the nation's rivalry games.

 

[RBB89]

Honestly, in the grand scheme of college football, the Bucket Game isn't really a rivalry. I don't know the last time this game sold out, besides the year Purdue went to the Rose Bowl in 2000. Real rivalries sell out games, and the fans actually care. There is very little passion for this game on the Purdue side most years...probably more this year since Hazell put our program in the abyss, and we are trying to get out of it. I suppose a win over a mediocre IU team would count as progress for Purdue this year. From IU's side a win over a talent deficient Purdue team will get you into another bad bowl game, which I guess isn't taking a step back. I guess until both programs are actually playing for something of relevance, I've never thought of the Bucket Game as anything besides the last game on the schedule.

I agree with the OP that it certainly could be moved to another time of the season, since by the time the game happens, it falls on Rivalry Week and gets zero attention from the media.

IU has never beaten PU 5 times in a row, which is what we’re trying to do this year. This would be our third straight bowl, which we’ve pulled off a whopping one time ever. We have a shot at our second winning season in 25 years. I don’t care if it’s a “bad bowl,” (we played a top 20 team in the bowl last year so unless you mean location, that was hardly a bad game) we will take that. These are tangible signs of progress for the losingest program in the country. So yeah, “you guess” correctly. Nothing about that would be a step back for IU.

And the last time it sold out at Memorial Stadium was 2007.

 

[IUHDog]

The game should be played when the students are present - no doubt about that one. I used to like having it the last game of the regular season because our history is such that our best moment of the year is beating Purdue, Salvage the season. But, that mentality certainly needs to change. POTFB!

 

[Thomtar]

I seem to remember this being debated a long time ago and the coaches at the time (I can't remember who they were) saying that the problem of opening with a rivalry game is that the loser has the rest of the season to play through without that rivalry showdown to use as motivation to keep going, continue working and getting better. In fact, for the loser, it could define their entire season, something coaches are loathe to do in the first game.

 

[HermanB]

Play it in Lucas Oil Stadium. It will sell out.

 

[RBB89]

Play it in Lucas Oil Stadium. It will sell out.

I tend to agree. Unless both teams reach the 8-9 win level at the same time, I would play it at LOS at the end of the season if the students are going to be gone. They simply are not going to come back. Although I would be fine with opening the season with the game on campus as well.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Play it in Lucas Oil Stadium. It will sell out.

I don't think it would sell out any time soon but it would be a home field advantage for IU.

 

[boiler1987]

I don't think it would sell out any time soon but it would be a home field advantage for IU.

Would it? I think it’d be pretty even but don’t think either team would have a significant home field advantage.

 

[ESalum86]

The long term reality is if students don't attend it while in college it won't mean anything extra to them in 10 or 20 years. It will become "just another game.". I'd hate to see that happen.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Would it? I think it’d be pretty even but don’t think either team would have a significant home field advantage.

Sure, I suppose PU could suddenly start supporting games in Indy.

 

[YOTHN]

Sure, I suppose PU could suddenly start supporting games in Indy.

I would be open to starting something like that once every 3 years. I think you get a better crowd for that game than who currently attends. It would be no different than the Crossroads Classic.

If the season opened with the game, it would definitely add a lot to it. More often than not (last 3 years withstanding), the game is meaningless at seasons end. If we opened the season with the game, there would be a lot of smack talking and build up prior to. The winner would have a decided advantage towards bowl eligibility so it would be a big game for both programs every...single...year. It would also pushes one our easy conf games up front which helps beef up our record as opposed to playing tough conf opponents first. This is good for many hype reasons.

However, it would likely mean we play a non-conference foe on the last week of the season because every other conference team is playing a 'rival' game.

 

[Thomtar]

Would it? I think it’d be pretty even but don’t think either team would have a significant home field advantage.

I think there is a good chance that it would. Lucas Oil Stadium seats 70,000 and dividing it in half means IU and PU each gets 35,000 tickets to sell. That's just a few thousand more than IU would sell and maybe a few thousand less than Purdue would sell. So, yeah, I think the bucket game at Lucas Oil Stadium has a good chance of selling out simply because each school would have the opportunity to sell their standard number of tickets were it a home game.
Pricing those tickets will be tricky. It costs $60 for a man like me to buy one ticket to an IU football game. Purdue has a seven-tier pricing policy in Ross-Ade stadium and the mean average is $25.71 for one ticket. But, a typical seat will cost between $45 and $75, depending on location, with a mean average price of $58.33 for one ticket.

 

[YOTHN]

I think there is a good chance that it would. Lucas Oil Stadium seats 70,000 and dividing it in half means IU and PU each gets 35,000 tickets to sell. That's just a few thousand more than IU would sell and maybe a few thousand less than Purdue would sell. So, yeah, I think the bucket game at Lucas Oil Stadium has a good chance of selling out simply because each school would have the opportunity to sell their standard number of tickets were it a home game.
Pricing those tickets will be tricky. It costs $60 for a man like me to buy one ticket to an IU football game. Purdue has a seven-tier pricing policy in Ross-Ade stadium and the mean average is $25.71 for one ticket. But, a typical seat will cost between $45 and $75, depending on location, with a mean average price of $58.33 for one ticket.

Oh, you think Lucas Oil would sell out for IU v PU? You have to understand that those ticket sales at PU and IU include IU fans traveling to PU and vice versa. We take a large bus of both fan bases to the game annually and its split down the middle for who supports what team. So there's a lot of overlap. Either way, I could see there definitely being more at Lucas than on campus.

 

[Thomtar]

Oh, you think Lucas Oil would sell out for IU v PU? You have to understand that those ticket sales at PU and IU include IU fans traveling to PU and vice versa. We take a large bus of both fan bases to the game annually and its split down the middle for who supports what team. So there's a lot of overlap. Either way, I could see there definitely being more at Lucas than on campus.

Yes, I realize that but, is Purdue giving IU 35,000 tickets to sell at Ross-Ade? Is IU giving Purdue 35,000 tickets to sell at Memorial Stadium?

 

[YOTHN]

Yes, I realize that but, is Purdue giving IU 35,000 tickets to sell at Ross-Ade? Is IU giving Purdue 35,000 tickets to sell at Memorial Stadium?

No but when the game is at PU, we just buy the tickets direct from PU. When its at IU, we buy them direct at IU. So the PU ticket sales at Ross-Ade have IU fans built into those sale as well.

In the end, we do agree that Lucas oil is the best option if we keep the game during this weekend. I think there are more IU and PU students in Indy than on campus that weekend so it just makes more sense. They could do something to create a fun atmosphere for the game there. Free student tickets. Either split the profit annually or alternate who the home team is.

 

[Thomtar]

No but when the game is at PU, we just buy the tickets direct from PU. When its at IU, we buy them direct at IU. So the PU ticket sales at Ross-Ade have IU fans built into those sale as well.

In the end, we do agree that Lucas oil is the best option if we keep the game during this weekend. I think there are more IU and PU students in Indy than on campus that weekend so it just makes more sense. They could do something to create a fun atmosphere for the game there. Free student tickets. Either split the profit annually or alternate who the home team is.

Well, I've got to admit that you may be right -- there may be more students in Indy than in Bloomington for that weekend. But, if I'm Fred Glass, preparing for these negotiations, I'm charging my marketing department with finding out. And that is a number that they can discern.
Other than that, Yothn, you're describing a Venn diagram -- which, again, may be completely accurate. But, again, if I'm Fred and I'm getting ready for these talks, I wanna know numbers. And, again, this is one they can figure out.
And I still think this is a really complex negotiation.
Beyond that, I think I'm really in favor of playing college games on college campuses, so I'd vote to keep alternating between Bloomington and West Lafayette. But, that's just me.

 

[td75]

I think it's a no brainer. IU fans always look forward to a new season in the form that it may finally be "the season". Don't underestimate that mindset when talking about moving the Bucket game. It would create excitement, momentum, fan interest, etc.

They talk about keeping it as the season finale in order for the winner to create program momentum going into the next season and that simply doesn't hold water.

I think it benefits IU in the long haul, as well.

 

[YOTHN]

Well, I've got to admit that you may be right -- there may be more students in Indy than in Bloomington for that weekend. But, if I'm Fred Glass, preparing for these negotiations, I'm charging my marketing department with finding out. And that is a number that they can discern.
Other than that, Yothn, you're describing a Venn diagram -- which, again, may be completely accurate. But, again, if I'm Fred and I'm getting ready for these talks, I wanna know numbers. And, again, this is one they can figure out.
And I still think this is a really complex negotiation.
Beyond that, I think I'm really in favor of playing college games on college campuses, so I'd vote to keep alternating between Bloomington and West Lafayette. But, that's just me.

I agree with that notion of having games on campus. There is always the lure so I get the want to keep that. With that said, right now the game has been a dud in regards to rivalry and interest. So firing up the series either early in the season or if it stays after turkey day, in Lucas Oil, might help drive more interest in the series. If there was a lot of interest, it could always be moved back but for now I think we just have to get people caring again.

 

[jsglenn4]

One thing you can't lose sight of when you talk about moving the game to Indianapolis is the affect you're going to have on local merchants in both Bloomington and West Lafayette. What will the affect be on Yogi's or Janko's or Nick's or any of the hotels/motels? The students are already gone, but every other year they have a chance at a good weekend regardless. Doesn't Indianapolis already get enough? Losing a home date, especially the Bucket game, will have significant impact on the local guys.

 

[goody1986]

Maybe this has been brought up before, but what if we reverse things and open the season playing for the Bucket? I hate the fact it is now played without students on campus, and also the same week as the IHSAA championship games.

I just believe the state's premier rivalry game should be played in front of students and it should also be a focus game for the state. Why go against OSU-UM, ND-USC (every other year), Bama-Auburn, etc., as another rivalry game. Even Army-Navy moved their game so they don't compete against conference championship games (which still ticks me off!).

Thoughts?

I've long thought that having the game any other weekend that the students are around would be better than Thanksgiving weekend. First game would be fine, September or October would be totally fine. I think having this game the first week of October would result in (near) sellouts at both places and be an incredibly fun atmosphere even if the teams weren't so great. Same with the first game of the year. Typically, that's early enough in the year that all hope hasn't been completely lost yet. As the schedule and quality of the teams currently stand, it's a morgue more often than not. It's an absolute shame that the students are not around to help add butts to the seats for these games anymore. IU would do well to play the last game of the season on the road every year if it's going to be Thanksgiving weekend. This is a wonderful example of not all tradition being good.

 

[82hoosier]

I seem to remember this being debated a long time ago and the coaches at the time (I can't remember who they were) saying that the problem of opening with a rivalry game is that the loser has the rest of the season to play through without that rivalry showdown to use as motivation to keep going, continue working and getting better. In fact, for the loser, it could define their entire season, something coaches are loathe to do in the first game.

I had not thought of it that way. Pretty pathetic actually. History has shown that there have been a number of years where one or both teams could bank on that game being the only highlight of the season. Nevertheless it would be sold out if the students were on campus. And that trumps everything else.

 

[Bowlmania]

My two cents. I'm not sure the game will ever regain the luster it once had, regardless of when or where it's played. Most of the rivalry's history was in an era when there were relatively few bowl games (and certainly many less than the 41 bowl games we have today) so, in most years, it was the very last game of the year for both teams and, therefore, the ultimate game. A team could define its season by the outcome of the Bucket game. In this era, a team can lose the Bucket but still play a 13th game and have a successful season.

That said, I'd leave the game as the last regular season game and continue to play it on campus. When/if both teams are good again, the fans will get interested again. The last time the Bucket game featured two good teams was 2007. Purdue was 7-4 coming in, and IU was 6-5. Memorial Stadium was packed and electric that afternoon/evening (thank you, Austin Starr, for a memorable finish). Granted, that game was the weekend before Thanksgiving, and it could be played that early because there was no bye week back then. I still think, though, that the fans will find their way to Bloomington (or West Lafayette), even over Thanksgiving weekend, when/if both teams have winning programs.

 

[YOTHN]

I say we just cancel it??? vbg

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Yes, I realize that but, is Purdue giving IU 35,000 tickets to sell at Ross-Ade? Is IU giving Purdue 35,000 tickets to sell at Memorial Stadium?

PU fans could grab 10-15K seats in Btown if they wanted to but they only bring 5K most years. IU travels better to WL but yes there are plenty of seats IU fans could buy..

 

[Courtsensetwo]

One thing you can't lose sight of when you talk about moving the game to Indianapolis is the affect you're going to have on local merchants in both Bloomington and West Lafayette. What will the affect be on Yogi's or Janko's or Nick's or any of the hotels/motels? The students are already gone, but every other year they have a chance at a good weekend regardless. Doesn't Indianapolis already get enough? Losing a home date, especially the Bucket game, will have significant impact on the local guys.

Wouldn't hurt Yogis a bit.

 

[oldcougar77]

Well, I've got to admit that you may be right -- there may be more students in Indy than in Bloomington for that weekend. But, if I'm Fred Glass, preparing for these negotiations, I'm charging my marketing department with finding out. And that is a number that they can discern.
Other than that, Yothn, you're describing a Venn diagram -- which, again, may be completely accurate. But, again, if I'm Fred and I'm getting ready for these talks, I wanna know numbers. And, again, this is one they can figure out.
And I still think this is a really complex negotiation.
Beyond that, I think I'm really in favor of playing college games on college campuses, so I'd vote to keep alternating between Bloomington and West Lafayette. But, that's just me.

The current Bucket weekend is the weekend of the HS State Finals in LOS. That's 6 high school games to be scheduled around. I don't see the folks at Lucas or the Colts stiffing the IHSAA for the Bucket game. Logistically, Thanksgiving weekend at LOS doesn't work.

 

[muubell]

The long term reality is if students don't attend it while in college it won't mean anything extra to them in 10 or 20 years. It will become "just another game.". I'd hate to see that happen.

Not so sure about that, especially if both teams get better. Playing the game after Thanksgiving isn't necessarily a new thing, either. The 1945 team played Purdue the weekend after Thanksgiving. My dad ('48 grad, still kicking at 93) has told me that he sold his ticket to that game for more than what he paid for the entire season tickets. He said that going into the year (his first at IU), he didn't have any idea how good the team was going to be, as there simply wasn't the media coverage as today. His family was not well off, and I have to suspect that selling the ticket and making back some money would have been huge. Him missing that game hasn't taken anything away from his being a fan and understanding the IU/PU rivalry.

 

[Thomtar]

Are we assuming that IU and Purdue people schedule this game -- and don't conference people schedule conference games? What incentive would conference schedulers have in scheduling this game around Indiana high school football games -- even if those games are championship games?

 

[oldcougar77]

Are we assuming that IU and Purdue people schedule this game -- and don't conference people schedule conference games? What incentive would conference schedulers have in scheduling this game around Indiana high school football games -- even if those games are championship games?

I'm not sure what you are addressing here. My earlier post pointed out that LOS is unavailable to host the Bucket game on Thanksgiving weekend due to the HS State championships unless the folks at LOS and the Colts want to throw the IHSAA out. I don't see them doing that. The Bucket Game can be whenever the conference, IU, PU can work it out, but it isn't going to be in Indy on the Saturday (or Friday) after Thanksgiving.

 

[I loved lucys]

Are we assuming that IU and Purdue people schedule this game -- and don't conference people schedule conference games? What incentive would conference schedulers have in scheduling this game around Indiana high school football games -- even if those games are championship games?

Every state in the country is conducting high school football playoffs at this time of year. Indiana is hardly in a unique spot, nor would there be an accommodation for them without considering the impact to all conference schools.

 

[Hoosiers Rising]

Every state in the country is conducting high school football playoffs at this time of year. Indiana is hardly in a unique spot, nor would there be an accommodation for them without considering the impact to all conference schools.

The gist of it was playing at LOS which would be impossible with the state championships that weekend. If IU and PU both agreed on a different date and the conference would indulge, it might be moved.

 

[I loved lucys]

The gist of it was playing at LOS which would be impossible with the state championships that weekend. If IU and PU both agreed on a different date and the conference would indulge, it might be moved.

I think the Big Ten likes their rivalry games played on the same weekend. If you move Indiana - Purdue you have to find two other rivals to move their games, too, so that IU and PU have opponents at the end. That's very unlikely to happen.

 

[Hoosiers Rising]

Some of these rivalries aren't really rivalries. I don't think PSU would mind playing Maryland a different weekend, but you might be right. Another option would be to play an OOC the last weekend although I don't know if the coaches would care for that.

 

[I loved lucys]

Some of these rivalries aren't really rivalries. I don't think PSU would mind playing Maryland a different weekend, but you might be right. Another option would be to play an OOC the last weekend although I don't know if the coaches would care for that.

I think the other conference schools would be inflexible, so the out of conference game would be the most likely option, and that wouldn't be easy since they tend to have end of year rivalry games, too.

The attendance issues are due to the quality of the programs. Field good teams and fans will show up, regardless of whether it's on Thanksgiving weekend or not. Field mediocre or worse teams, as has been the case for some time, and nobody wants to come.

 

[Dick nixon]

I agree with the OP that it certainly could be moved to another time of the season, since by the time the game happens, it falls on Rivalry Week and gets zero attention from the media.

This is not meant negatively, but does anyone outside of the immediate fan base ever care about this game?

We aren’t talking about top10 team matchup here.

 

[Baron55]

Why wouldn’t you play that game at Lucas oil stadium?

 

[oldcougar77]

Why wouldn’t you play that game at Lucas oil stadium?

You could play it at LOS, but not the weekend after Thanksgiving.