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Bill Self is dumber than we thought



Wow....sounds like those federal prosecutors have a tough argument to make, if this is being correctly reported......showing that Kansas has been defrauded by exposing them to NCAA sanctions for payments everybody knows were being made, only with plausible deniability intact? That's an easy one--not guilty.

I would think the easiest charge would be tax evasion on the family members that accepted payments. That wouldn't be a politically correct prosecution, so that probably won't happen....and perhaps it shouldn't.

Which begs the question of why federal prosecutors are involved in this mess.
 
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Wow....sounds like those federal prosecutors have a tough argument to make, if this is being correctly reported......showing that Kansas has been defrauded by exposing them to NCAA sanctions for payments everybody knows were being made, only with plausible deniability intact? That's an easy one--not guilty.

I would think the easiest charge would be tax evasion on the family members that accepting payments. That wouldn't be a politically correct prosecution, so that probably won't happen....and perhaps it shouldn't.

Which begs the question of why federal prosecutors are involved in this mess.

no crap...the FBI must suddenly have whole level of leadership with degrees from mid-major colleges...they want blood...and i'm for it as long as IU stays off the hook, of course lol

i'm way more interested in how the NCAA will ignore Self's clear plea for 3rd party recruiting help in the texts....that chicken shit cheated his way right up the ladder...i still think IU is uniquely poised to have to cheat a bit less because of strong basketball institutions within the state...or so i tell myself...i'm a cynical dreamer
 
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If the NCAA were to write a book about bball recruiting at the elites, it would be called: "Too Big to Fail... Recruiting at UK, KU, UNC and Duke."

Then there's all the other schools...
 
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no crap...the FBI must suddenly have whole level of leadership with degrees from mid-major colleges...they want blood...and i'm for it as long as IU stays off the hook, of course lol

i'm way more interested in how the NCAA will ignore Self's clear plea for 3rd party recruiting help in the texts....that chicken shit cheated his way right up the ladder...i still think IU is uniquely poised to have to cheat a bit less because of strong basketball institutions within the state...or so i tell myself...i'm a cynical dreamer


yes.......the guy sure sounds like KU's "agent" for recruiting purposes......and the agent just gave a recruit $15000 for signing. I see no difference between this and a KU car dealer booster giving a recruit's family a nice car. I don't think proof of intent/knowledge is even necessary for a violation......so yes, it will be very interesting to see how they get out of it scott-free.
 
Wow....sounds like those federal prosecutors have a tough argument to make, if this is being correctly reported......showing that Kansas has been defrauded by exposing them to NCAA sanctions for payments everybody knows were being made, only with plausible deniability intact? That's an easy one--not guilty.

I would think the easiest charge would be tax evasion on the family members that accepted payments. That wouldn't be a politically correct prosecution, so that probably won't happen....and perhaps it shouldn't.

Which begs the question of why federal prosecutors are involved in this mess.

One theory is that the NCAA obviously knew things were going on, but their enforcement arm (or lack thereof) could only do so much. So the got the Feds involved to secure more evidence.
 
no crap...the FBI must suddenly have whole level of leadership with degrees from mid-major colleges...they want blood...and i'm for it as long as IU stays off the hook, of course lol

i'm way more interested in how the NCAA will ignore Self's clear plea for 3rd party recruiting help in the texts....that chicken shit cheated his way right up the ladder...i still think IU is uniquely poised to have to cheat a bit less because of strong basketball institutions within the state...or so i tell myself...i'm a cynical dreamer
If they're cheating then I hope they get nailed. That includes IU and Purdue. The game needs cleaning up. Cheating seems to be rampant. It's probably wishful thinking.
 
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Imagine if the NCAA formed a high end athletic shoe company and required teams to wear NCAA shoes. I wonder how much recruiting would change.
 
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Imagine if the NCAA formed a high end athletic shoe company and required teams to wear NCAA shoes. I wonder how much recruiting would change.

they would look like this

images
 
If they're cheating then I hope they get nailed. That includes IU and Purdue. The game needs cleaning up. Cheating seems to be rampant. It's probably wishful thinking.

bite your tongue. IU should always be spared. Purdue should be sanctioned for following the rules.
 

Makes for a nice headline, but ultimately it is important to remember that it is from a defense attorneys closing argument. Hardly evidence.

The text messages are a bad look, and show that Self and Townsend likely had knowledge of Adidas funneling players their way, if they didn't direct it themselves.

Ultimately, it will take a SWAT team to remove Self from KU. Kansas wont blink and they shouldn't.

Dig your heels in and make the NCAA justify their punishment.
 
no crap...the FBI must suddenly have whole level of leadership with degrees from mid-major colleges...they want blood...and i'm for it as long as IU stays off the hook, of course lol

i'm way more interested in how the NCAA will ignore Self's clear plea for 3rd party recruiting help in the texts....that chicken shit cheated his way right up the ladder...i still think IU is uniquely poised to have to cheat a bit less because of strong basketball institutions within the state...or so i tell myself...i'm a cynical dreamer
I find it interesting how pretty much no B10 school has been terribly implied in any of this yet. Wonder how much all of this plays into why the B10 hasn't had a Natty champ in so long.
 
Makes for a nice headline, but ultimately it is important to remember that it is from a defense attorneys closing argument. Hardly evidence.

The text messages are a bad look, and show that Self and Townsend likely had knowledge of Adidas funneling players their way, if they didn't direct it themselves.

Ultimately, it will take a SWAT team to remove Self from KU. Kansas wont blink and they shouldn't.

Dig your heels in and make the NCAA justify their punishment.

will be interesting. i'm curious to see if KU does any self-punishment to get ahead of this thing. the ncaa bends the knee to programs like KU but what the feds are unearthing is way too much to ignore. i actually think Self goes down hard for this one. looks like he got cocky and/ or lazy. you talk to your assistants in person and your assistants send the texts and make the calls.

"get me some real guys" not too bright, billy!
 
will be interesting. i'm curious to see if KU does any self-punishment to get ahead of this thing. the ncaa bends the knee to programs like KU but what the feds are unearthing is way too much to ignore. i actually think Self goes down hard for this one. looks like he got cocky and/ or lazy. you talk to your assistants in person and your assistants send the texts and make the calls.

"get me some real guys" not too bright, billy!

The problem is that the texts are still vague enough to attribute the conversation to something else.

Now anyone with a functioning brain knows what they were talking about, but I still wouldn't call it a smoking gun.

Gatto's whole defense was essentially, I didn't defraud these schools, they're complicit.

While that is most likely true, you have to keep in mind he's going to do any and everything prove that.

Ultimately, I think the NCAA wants this FBI situation to blow over as much as anyone. I have a hard time seeing them doing anything severe to any of the schools caught up in this, that just elongates the conversation for a few more years.

They're well within their power to bring the hammer down on Kansas, but I don't think they will.

As far as Kansas getting out in front with their own self-punishment, they wont and they shouldn't, unless more details come to light.

The most I could see is Townsend getting the axe, but I doubt that even happens. Him and Self are best friends.
 
Kansas and Dollar Bill Self are preseason #1, with evidence of payment to at least 2 players. Crime does pay, when the NCAA has no balls to punish Schools and Coaches who are buying players.
 
I find it interesting how pretty much no B10 school has been terribly implied in any of this yet. Wonder how much all of this plays into why the B10 hasn't had a Natty champ in so long.
Big Ten basketball recruiting has been horrific for 20 years. I heard Romeo is the highest ranked recruit in like 10 years or since Gordon for the entire conference. That’s incredible. Meaning no one in the conference has gotten a top 5 recruit in that timeframe. The Big Ten has become almost like a mid major in college basketball.
 
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The problem is that the texts are still vague enough to attribute the conversation to something else.

Now anyone with a functioning brain knows what they were talking about, but I still wouldn't call it a smoking gun.

Gatto's whole defense was essentially, I didn't defraud these schools, they're complicit.

While that is most likely true, you have to keep in mind he's going to do any and everything prove that.

Ultimately, I think the NCAA wants this FBI situation to blow over as much as anyone. I have a hard time seeing them doing anything severe to any of the schools caught up in this, that just elongates the conversation for a few more years.

They're well within their power to bring the hammer down on Kansas, but I don't think they will.

As far as Kansas getting out in front with their own self-punishment, they wont and they shouldn't, unless more details come to light.

The most I could see is Townsend getting the axe, but I doubt that even happens. Him and Self are best friends.

i'm certainly no expert in NCAA bylaws but i think we're confusing the different things the FBI and NCAA care about. the feds care about the money (see wire fraud) because that's the only way they can run with in this. the NCAA cares that KU sought 3rd party help to recruit. they have more than enough to hammer that home. plus all the press. all of college basketball is watching this. they can't ignore this or they might as well not exist. and other schools, or a group of schools, would likely compel a judge to tell the NCAA they no longer exist if they did fail to act on things like this.

this really isn't business as usual.
 
Big Ten basketball recruiting has been horrific for 20 years. I heard Romeo is the highest ranked recruit in like 10 years or since Gordon for the entire conference. That’s incredible. Meaning no one in the conference has gotten a top 5 recruit in that timeframe. The Big Ten has become almost like a mid major in college basketball.
Or, the B1G was not cheating like some other conferences. SEC (Somewhere Everybody Cheats). FBI needs to probe SEC Football recruiting.
 
Big Ten basketball recruiting has been horrific for 20 years. I heard Romeo is the highest ranked recruit in like 10 years or since Gordon for the entire conference. That’s incredible. Meaning no one in the conference has gotten a top 5 recruit in that timeframe. The Big Ten has become almost like a mid major in college basketball.

we've told you 10,000 times not to exaggerate :)
 
i'm certainly no expert in NCAA bylaws but i think we're confusing the different things the FBI and NCAA care about. the feds care about the money (see wire fraud) because that's the only way they can run with in this. the NCAA cares that KU sought 3rd party help to recruit. they have more than enough to hammer that home. plus all the press. all of college basketball is watching this. they can't ignore this or they might as well not exist. and other schools, or a group of schools, would likely compel a judge to tell the NCAA they no longer exist if they did fail to act on things like this.

this really isn't business as usual.
I wonder if they were to punish programs regardless if they had knowledge or not to stop outsiders from hurting "their program".
 
Big Ten basketball recruiting has been horrific for 20 years. I heard Romeo is the highest ranked recruit in like 10 years or since Gordon for the entire conference. That’s incredible. Meaning no one in the conference has gotten a top 5 recruit in that timeframe. The Big Ten has become almost like a mid major in college basketball.

Lol we've had six of our teams (off the top of my head) make the championship final game in the past 20 years with the latest one going all the way back to just seven months (and that's after having two other teams be ranked top ten, one top five all season long).

Only the ACC can come close to that, and I don't think they do (UNC, Duke, Louisville, Syracuse, Maryland now in the Big Ten)

Try harder next time.
 
Lol we've had six of our teams (off the top of my head) make the championship final game in the past 20 years with the latest one going all the way back to just seven months (and that's after having two other teams be ranked top ten, one top five all season long).

Only the ACC can come close to that, and I don't think they do (UNC, Duke, Louisville, Syracuse, Maryland now in the Big Ten)

Try harder next time.
Since our last title the ACC and Big East both have won 6-7 titles. The SEC 3. All of those are head and shoulders above the Big Ten. We’re comparable to the Big 12 and PAC 12
 
Since our last title the ACC and Big East both have won 6-7 titles. The SEC 3. All of those are head and shoulders above the Big Ten. We’re comparable to the Big 12 and PAC 12

Hold on here..in your debate that Kentucky is the model program to emulate you dismissed me saying they have just one championship from their 8 billion one and done lottery picks with 'they've been to the final four a lot which is what counts'.

Now in this rebuttal you pull out the 'yeah but how many have won?'.

Oh and a those championships had maybe 3 or 4 one and done players.

Plus now we know their market value is $150k, plus cars (hello Mr Preston) plus housing plus a job and in return you get very little actual championship success and a hell of a lot of headache for the stars that you crave so much.

The reason for the big ten drought is not from having a lack of talent. We've gotten there by more teams than anyone. You're one and dones aren't winning championships.

The best experienced players are winning championships.
 
Big Ten basketball recruiting has been horrific for 20 years. I heard Romeo is the highest ranked recruit in like 10 years or since Gordon for the entire conference. That’s incredible. Meaning no one in the conference has gotten a top 5 recruit in that timeframe. The Big Ten has become almost like a mid major in college basketball.

Lol! Ridiculous
 
Hold on here..in your debate that Kentucky is the model program to emulate you dismissed me saying they have just one championship from their 8 billion one and done lottery picks with 'they've been to the final four a lot which is what counts'.

Now in this rebuttal you pull out the 'yeah but how many have won?'.

Oh and a those championships had maybe 3 or 4 one and done players.

Plus now we know their market value is $150k, plus cars (hello Mr Preston) plus housing plus a job and in return you get very little actual championship success and a hell of a lot of headache for the stars that you crave so much.

The reason for the big ten drought is not from having a lack of talent. We've gotten there by more teams than anyone. You're one and dones aren't winning championships.

The best experienced players are winning championships.
Spot on
 
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Big Ten basketball recruiting has been horrific for 20 years. I heard Romeo is the highest ranked recruit in like 10 years or since Gordon for the entire conference. That’s incredible. Meaning no one in the conference has gotten a top 5 recruit in that timeframe. The Big Ten has become almost like a mid major in college basketball.

2010. Sullinger. See, you did exaggerate.
 
2010. Sullinger. See, you did exaggerate.
Fair enough. I thought it was 10 when it’s 8. Same take away. That’s 35 recruits in between and no Big Ten school got one. Hard to believe for us old guys.
 
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