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Big TJD news dropping...

Id say any foot injury to TJD as a tourney push lies ahead is a major news drop...

I cant imagine how the full-game line-up plays out and replaces him.

I hope Archie figured it out though...I hope our seniors get a chance to experience the Real tourney...
 
Id say any foot injury to TJD as a tourney push lies ahead is a major news drop...

I cant imagine how the full-game line-up plays out and replaces him.

I hope Archie figured it out though...I hope our seniors get a chance to experience the Real tourney...
Sprained during PU game. Obviously played through it last game. Most likely playing Wednesday.
 
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and the Apologists all give a big ‘sighhh....’

As now there is a ‘we’d have made the tourney, but....’. excuse now in place...

Will this be a more or less proud moment than the ‘we were one game away’ myth of last season that many hung their hats on?
 
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and the Apologists all give a big ‘sighhh....’

As now there is a ‘we’d have made the tourney, but....’. excuse now in place...

Will this be a more or less proud moment than the ‘we were one game away’ myth of last season that many hung their hats on?
That might be the most pathetic post I’ve ever read from one of the perpetually negative. If you’re an IU fan you want IU to win, right? I do, what about you?
 
That might be the most pathetic post I’ve ever read from one of the perpetually negative. If you’re an IU fan you want IU to win, right? I do, what about you?
As a real fan...I’d wish ‘making the tourney’ wasnt in such question w 2 regular season games fo play...
 
Sprained during PU game. Obviously played through it last game. Most likely playing Wednesday.
That figures...injured during the Purdue game. As if Purdue doesn't have enough up on us already. Shades of Scotty May breaking his arm during the Purdue game, ruining what would have been two undefeated seasons in a row.
 
Sprained during PU game. Obviously played through it last game. Most likely playing Wednesday.
That figures...injured during the Purdue game. Where have I heard that before? As if Purdue doesn't have enough up on us lately. Shades of Scott May breaking his arm during the Purdue game in Mackey, ruining what would have been two undefeated seasons in a row. They loved it!
 
Yeah, it would really suck to be so giddy over an IU player getting hurt, when you are a proclaimed IU fan.
our fan base is, once again, in a very weird place, unfortunately. Long term ulterior motives causing some to root against present day success.

There was a point in time when an RMK return to Assy hall might have really done the IU collective some good. Unfortunately, too many years passed (actually 2 decades), and his appearance a few weeks back had no such effect. Sadly, I now suspect that the event was more of a 'goodbye' to the faithful, with no such unifying influence on IU nation.

Ok now I'm depressed....
 
our fan base is, once again, in a very weird place, unfortunately. Long term ulterior motives causing some to root against present day success.

There was a point in time when an RMK return to Assy hall might have really done the IU collective some good. Unfortunately, too many years passed (actually 2 decades), and his appearance a few weeks back had no such effect. Sadly, I now suspect that the event was more of a 'goodbye' to the faithful, with no such unifying influence on IU nation.

Ok now I'm depressed....

It is what it is, and has always been: the guy that will unify the base, is the one that wins at a level that meets most fans expectations, and doesn't get in trouble with the NCAA. I think that is making the tournament almost every year, winning a game or 2 once there 2 out of 3 years, and getting to an E8 or better every 8-10 years. Also contending for a conference title every few years. It seems miles away, but as I look around the B10, it still seems quite possible to me. But maybe these expectations have become unrealistic over the years. Basically we need someone who can do a bit better than MP's done at PU, which again, seems reasonable given our history and resources.
 
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our fan base is, once again, in a very weird place, unfortunately. Long term ulterior motives causing some to root against present day success.

There was a point in time when an RMK return to Assy hall might have really done the IU collective some good. Unfortunately, too many years passed (actually 2 decades), and his appearance a few weeks back had no such effect. Sadly, I now suspect that the event was more of a 'goodbye' to the faithful, with no such unifying influence on IU nation.

Ok now I'm depressed....
Geez, Bob was good but he's not so good that his mere presence can unify a currently disjointed fanbase 20 years later. It wasn't Jesus Christ who came back for a visit.
 
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It is what it is, and has always been: the guy that will unify the base, is the one that wins at a level that meets most fans expectations, and doesn't get in trouble with the NCAA. I think that is making the tournament almost every year, winning a game or 2 once there 2 out of 3 years, and getting to an E8 or better every 8-10 years. Also contending for a conference title every few years. It seems miles away, but as I look around the B10, it still seems quite possible to me. But maybe these expectations have become unrealistic over the years. Basically we need someone who can do a bit better than MP's done at PU, which again, seems reasonable given our history and resources.
agreed, and will never happen if we keep changes coaches every 5-7 yrs. Program needs stability.
 
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agreed, and will never happen if we keep changes coaches every 5-7 yrs. Program needs stability.

Well, 5 years seems more than enough time to determine if you have the right Coach. So, what are you proposing, that we keep coaches who apparently can't get it done, for the sake of stability? Would you have preferred to have kept Crean? To me, you've got to keep changing if you decide you haven't found the right Coach and if they've not proven it in 5 years, odds are, you haven't found the right person.
 
Well, 5 years seems more than enough time to determine if you have the right Coach. So, what are you proposing, that we keep coaches who apparently can't get it done, for the sake of stability? Would you have preferred to have kept Crean? To me, you've got to keep changing if you decide you haven't found the right Coach and if they've not proven it in 5 years, odds are, you haven't found the right person.
I think it's still too early to hit the eject button on CAM. But my confidence is growing thinner this year. I still see too many simple defensive breakdowns. Not because the players are lazy, but they just seem to be out of position too often and have a helluva time on the screen/hedge thing. Too many people rolling off of screens to the lane wide open. Too much overplay without the foot speed to recover (Brunk is very bad at this). Not enough back side rotation, or not quick enough rotation. Durham gets taken to the hole off the dribble often. Need Race, TJD and Hunter on the court together more. They are the keys to next year's team.

The shooting is another story. This is IU and we are dead last in the conference in 3pt shooting. That should never be the case. I'm going to consider an NCAA bid a very mild success this year but next yr we need to move into the upper half of the conf, solid tourney bid 6 seed or better, and 22+ wins. Let's sniff the top 25....again, in the words of our last coach....this is IU. Honeymoon is over. Will be interesting to see what moves occur this summer, both with players and any asst coaches.

I'm on record as saying I don't want to see Smith leave early. That said, if he wants to, if he's not happy here....then go. If CAM can get a grad tx who can contribute 8-10 pts and 5 rbs, and has an upperclassmen toughness to him (stress on toughness because it's sorely needed), then I'm all for it. Smith is an enigma that I'm growing tired of trying to figure out.

I was done with Crean the night of the Syracuse debacle. I knew then that it wasn't going to work out long term. He would have been gone a year earlier but Yogi played superman his Sr year.
 
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I think it's still too early to hit the eject button on CAM. But my confidence is growing thinner this year. I still see too many simple defensive breakdowns. Not because the players are lazy, but they just seem to be out of position too often and have a helluva time on the screen/hedge thing. Too many people rolling off of screens to the lane wide open. Too much overplay without the foot speed to recover (Brunk is very bad at this). Not enough back side rotation, or not quick enough rotation. Durham gets taken to the hole off the dribble often. Need Race, TJD and Hunter on the court together more. They are the keys to next year's team.

The shooting is another story. This is IU and we are dead last in the conference in 3pt shooting. That should never be the case. I'm going to consider an NCAA bid a very mild success this year but next yr we need to move into the upper half of the conf, solid tourney bid 6 seed or better, and 22+ wins. Let's sniff the top 25....again, in the words of our last coach....this is IU. Honeymoon is over. Will be interesting to see what moves occur this summer, both with players and any asst coaches.

I'm on record as saying I don't want to see Smith leave early. That said, if he wants to, if he's not happy here....then go. If CAM can get a grad tx who can contribute 8-10 pts and 5 rbs, and has an upperclassmen toughness to him (stress on toughness because it's sorely needed), then I'm all for it. Smith is an enigma that I'm growing tired of trying to figure out.

I was done with Crean the night of the Syracuse debacle. I knew then that it wasn't going to work out long term. He would have been gone a year earlier but Yogi played superman his Sr year.

Well said. Not one thing I disagree with.

One player that IMO is also key for next year is Phinisee. He was SO good the first half of last year and has never been the same after the injuries. We need him back to 100%.
 
Well said. Not one thing I disagree with.

One player that IMO is also key for next year is Phinisee. He was SO good the first half of last year and has never been the same after the injuries. We need him back to 100%.

Same opinion manyt of us are at with a player like Wheeler. Haven't seen the progression this year. Makes you wonder which was the anomaly, the half season of good play or the rest. Always lots of nagging injuries.
 
Archie is a better coach than Mark Turgeon and Maryland has been top 10 all season. We will get a lot better. I don’t know about winning Championships though?
 
It is what it is, and has always been: the guy that will unify the base, is the one that wins at a level that meets most fans expectations, and doesn't get in trouble with the NCAA. I think that is making the tournament almost every year, winning a game or 2 once there 2 out of 3 years, and getting to an E8 or better every 8-10 years. Also contending for a conference title every few years. It seems miles away, but as I look around the B10, it still seems quite possible to me. But maybe these expectations have become unrealistic over the years. Basically we need someone who can do a bit better than MP's done at PU, which again, seems reasonable given our history and resources.


I don't think its miles away at all.... it's basically moving up maybe 20 spots or so from where we currently are. That's not a huge leap..... it's very incremental improvement that turns a 20 win (hopefully) team into a 25 win one. It's making a few more shots, a few less bad possessions, and one legit good guard.
 
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Well said. Not one thing I disagree with.

One player that IMO is also key for next year is Phinisee. He was SO good the first half of last year and has never been the same after the injuries. We need him back to 100%.
The thought has occurred to me that he might already be back to 100% but we just don't know it because we've never been told. Has anyone thought to ask Rob?
 
I think that is making the tournament almost every year, winning a game or 2 once there 2 out of 3 years, and getting to an E8 or better every 8-10 years. Also contending for a conference title every few years. It seems miles away, but as I look around the B10, it still seems quite possible to me. But maybe these expectations have become unrealistic over the years. Basically we need someone who can do a bit better than MP's done at PU, which again, seems reasonable given our history and resources.

good post, and I agree.

you are right, IMHO, about the fans expectations for this program. Of course they are lower than what they used to be, but that is natural. Part of that is just demographics. A 30 year old was 5 years old in 1995. A senior at IU has never even seen IU as a NCAA team (while a student). A senior in high school deciding between IU, butler, Dayton and MSU (for example), that wants to experience big time college athletics as a fan in college, may rule us out. Even long time fans have to have lowered expectations. No big ten team has won a title in 20 years-the most likely scenario is that IU hung their last banner long ago.

on the other hand, that doesn’t mean that the IU basketball program can’t be a much better program than what it has been over the last 20 years. You are right, we are miles away from having a program like PU has. And I think you are right on what IU fans expect (as outlined in the post I quoted above). One things certain, it’s going to take time. Crean has a 2 season spike where we won 50+ games, but it was sandwiched between crap seasons. IU needs to show sustained success, over at least 5 years before the program can really show that it has improved. One or two season spikes is no different than what can happen at PSU, or any other school.

if given time can Miller build IU into a program like painter has in PU? Frankly, I doubt that he is nearly the coach that Painter is, who I think gets a lot out of limited talent. Miller has disappointed me in maximizing his talent. I expected that to be a strength, now I’m not sure. But, IU still recruits itself. It’s a unique and beautiful campus, and Bloomington is a special place. I think we have a reasonable chance to have that type of a program. It is miles away to take a program that has missed 7 of the last 11 NCAAs and turn them into a program that makes 9 of the next 10. But, we aren’t Northwestern, and as much as my expectations have been lowered I still expect us to make the tourney almost every year.

and once in the NCAAs, anything can happen. It wouldn’t shock me if this team goes to the Sweet 16.
 
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Same opinion manyt of us are at with a player like Wheeler. Haven't seen the progression this year. Makes you wonder which was the anomaly, the half season of good play or the rest. Always lots of nagging injuries.
yeah Wheeler had that game last year (Maryland?) that I just happened to watch, and, as an IU fan, had my oh shit moment...this kid is going to be all conf, gonna kill IU....and then this yr happened and he just seems to wander around on the court with nothing to contribute (except the flurry of 3s he hit in Bloomington, ironically). Meanwhile, some bald Ivy league 50 yr old cajun dude played like a bad ass in Iowa City last night. B1G ball can be strange sometimes.

Did enjoy watching Fran go Defcon 5 for a few seconds...always entertaining.
 
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Well, 5 years seems more than enough time to determine if you have the right Coach. So, what are you proposing, that we keep coaches who apparently can't get it done, for the sake of stability? Would you have preferred to have kept Crean? To me, you've got to keep changing if you decide you haven't found the right Coach and if they've not proven it in 5 years, odds are, you haven't found the right person.

We never should've fired CAM in 2001. We be in BCS bowls right now with all that continuity.
 
good post, and I agree.

you are right, IMHO, about the fans expectations for this program. Of course they are lower than what they used to be, but that is natural. Part of that is just demographics. A 30 year old was 5 years old in 1995. A senior at IU has never even seen IU as a NCAA team (while a student). A senior in high school deciding between IU, butler, Dayton and MSU (for example), that wants to experience big time college athletics as a fan in college, may rule us out. Even long time fans have to have lowered expectations. No big ten team has won a title in 20 years-the most likely scenario is that IU hung their last banner long ago.

on the other hand, that doesn’t mean that the IU basketball program can’t be a much better program than what it has been over the last 20 years. You are right, we are miles away from having a program like PU has. And I think you are right on what IU fans expect (as outlined in the post I quoted above). One things certain, it’s going to take time. Crean has a 2 season spike where we won 50+ games, but it was sandwiched between crap seasons. IU needs to show sustained success, over at least 5 years before the program can really show that it has improved. One or two season spikes is no different than what can happen at PSU, or any other school.

if given time can Miller build IU into a program like painter has in PU? Frankly, I doubt that he is nearly the coach that Painter is, who I think gets a lot out of limited talent. Miller has disappointed me in maximizing his talent. I expected that to be a strength, now I’m not sure. But, IU still recruits itself. It’s a unique and beautiful campus, and Bloomington is a special place. I think we have a reasonable chance to have that type of a program. It is miles away to take a program that has missed 7 of the last 11 NCAAs and turn them into a program that makes 9 of the next 10. But, we aren’t Northwestern, and as much as my expectations have been lowered I still expect us to make the tourney almost every year.

and once in the NCAAs, anything can happen. It wouldn’t shock me if this team goes to the Sweet 16.

re: your last comment....that would be great to see, but we'll have to win a tough, evenly matched first game, then take down a 1/2 seed in the second game. That's after holding our own for the next week and a half. Would love to dream but I haven't seen this team show the ability to get hot, let alone stay consistant.
 
yeah Wheeler had that game last year (Maryland?) that I just happened to watch, and, as an IU fan, had my oh shit moment...this kid is going to be all conf, gonna kill IU....and then this yr happened and he just seems to wander around on the court with nothing to contribute (except the flurry of 3s he hit in Bloomington, ironically). Meanwhile, some bald Ivy league 50 yr old cajun dude played like a bad ass in Iowa City last night. B1G ball can be strange sometimes.

Did enjoy watching Fran go Defcon 5 for a few seconds...always entertaining.

Yes, probably our best win of the year, and probably too little too late, but at least they have a shot with a good showing in the conference tournament.

That bald Cajun dude was heavily recruited by Iowa who towards the end of recruiting told him they were going to "go in a different direction" and he ended up at Dartmouth. I'm sure he had a little extra something for Iowa because of that.
 
Yes, probably our best win of the year, and probably too little too late, but at least they have a shot with a good showing in the conference tournament.

That bald Cajun dude was heavily recruited by Iowa who towards the end of recruiting told him they were going to "go in a different direction" and he ended up at Dartmouth. I'm sure he had a little extra something for Iowa because of that.
ahh...the rest of the story. He sure had an edge to him last night. Something desperately needed in Bloomington...playing pissed off.

First time I've seen a bald guy throw down a monster dunk in an NCAA game since Granville Waiters...(showing my age again).
 
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Archie is a better coach than Mark Turgeon and Maryland has been top 10 all season. We will get a lot better. I don’t know about winning Championships though?

I don't see how you can say one is better than the other? Their winning percentages are nearly identical. If you remove their "smaller conference" records (Dayton and Wichita State respectively) Turgeon has a much better record wearing big boy pants. I'm not saying Turgeon is better either, but there's zero evidence either way.
 
ahh...the rest of the story. He sure had an edge to him last night. Something desperately needed in Bloomington...playing pissed off.

First time I've seen a bald guy throw down a monster dunk in an NCAA game since Granville Waiters...(showing my age again).

Ha! Granville Waiters.....

Ya, I wasn't sure he could dunk until last night.
 
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