Biden Vaccine/no mask

Big Red Buffalo

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For the 100th time, it's not the pressure to cut red tape in clinical development and manuafacturing, to allow rapid development of vaccines, that anyone is complaining about.

That is, in fact, laudable.

It's the pressure to skip steps regarding clinical data requirements necessary for approval, either EUA or fill approval, that is not acceptable. To skip steps to gain votes is abhorrent.

The scientists set the bar for data (>2 months of safety data for EUA, >12 months of full approval) based upon a long track record of safety data for other drugs and other vaccines.

It would not be acceptable, for example, for Biden to force the FDA to grant full approval tight now, even though that might convince more people to get vaccinated. 12 months of data is not in hand. It will be by the end of August, when you can expect the Pfizer vaccine to be fully approved. Biden has no say in that, nor should he.
Did the vaccine work? Yes
Did any of your quoted steps get broken? No

So where is the proof he tried to break those rules? I think that proof was what the rumors were referring too… you speak as if it is fact that he was trying to circumvent protocols in place to protect people and that just isn’t true. I’m sorry but it’s not. Anonymous sources are not proof… nor are rumors
 
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hoot1

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Cool story. My parents were strict conservative Mennonites until their 50s. Mennonites looked down on Catholics. Intermarriage wasn’t a possibility.

We usually got one trip a summer to St Louis or to Cincinnati to watch the Cardinals play. Sunday evening leaving Cincinnati our car gave out. A family stopped and loaded us in their already loaded vehicle. They took us to their home and provided food and a place to sleep most of the week while their local mechanic fixed our car.

The family was strict Catholics. My mom and the mother from Cincinnati became friends from a distance. They sent Christmas cards and letters to each other for years.

Moral to the story is mom figured out Mennonites didn’t have a corner on the Christian market. Anytime my mom gets judge mental around me I remind her of the story

I know I know. Remember this when judging democrats. 😂
Stoll, great recollection about Catholics and Mennonites meeting in a car breakdown and recognizing that above all we are just human beings with a way lot more in common than sharing the same religion.

Wish Dems and Pubs along with people of different religions could focus on all the the things they share in common versus stressing a comparatively few differences.
 
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Stuffshot

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You're conflating two things, development and authorization. No one is criticizing him for his role in expediting the development of the vaccine. Some are refusing to give him credit, but they aren't criticizing him for it, and never did.

What he was criticized for was suggesting he might try to rush the authorization process for political reasons. He deserved criticism for that. And let's not forget, said criticism was pretty muted. No matter how many articles you find, they will all be quoting the same small handful of statements made by a few people. I think the one quoted in the article you linked is probably the only time Biden even spoke on the subject. It wasn't actually that big of a deal, and for good reason: for all his blabbering, Trump really didn't have any mechanism to rush the EUA. The FDA were going to act when they were going to act, and Trump couldn't really do anything about it.
However, even after development of the vaccines, did Trump ever do anything to actually encourage his followers to receive the vaccine?

I remember that stories came out in the first month of the Biden administration to the effect that Trump, wife, and certain family members had privately received their vaccines in the last days of his Presidency, but there was no announcement from Trump back then to encourage his followers to get vaccinated. In other words, Trump got his (as always) but did nothing to encourage his followers to get theirs -- he was content to just let them think he was still opposed.

Getting injected is at least as important as encouraging a massive drug company to develop a profitable vaccine that drug companies were going to develop anyway.
 

hoot1

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Your mother and father sound sweet and had a great impact on you and others.

but something about your first sentence “My strict Catholic Mother considered freedom to be part of Satan's scheme to lead us into sin.” Just seems a little to contrived in order to fit your argument. How can Freedom be Satan’s scheme when God granted freedom of Will to man? When you think about it, it’s the greatest freedom ever given.

Love your mother and fathers description and I mean no disrespect to them at all Hoot… just seems your trying to make a point … 😁
Red, agree with your premise about free will and my attempt to bring freedom into the thread as if it was part of Satan's scheme rather than an important American value..

In Mother's view, as can be seen such things as self gratification (going to the movies on Sunday) was just part of Satan tempting us into sin.

As to free will, she didn't believe people were predestined at birth to enter Heaven. instead she thought we were born with free will who could choose to follow the path of Satan's temptations or follow God's will as outlined by church doctrine.

Bottom line for me, freedom should have its limitations.
 
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DANC

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As shooter pointed out above, I shouldn't have used the word "rumors." Regardless, it's wrong to portray the Dems as opposed to the vaccine. The opposition was purely to the prospect of Trump politicizing the rollout.
LMAO! Yeah, the Dims sure didn't politicize it, did they?

What a coincidence the vaccines were announced as successful after the election.

It sure as hell wasn't Trump who was making this political.
 

DANC

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that was hardly anti-vaccine. that was anti-trump.

Of course no one should trust someone that said to inject yourself with disinfectant.
No one said that, dumbass. Just more repitition of Dim talking points.

And you just continue to parrott the lie.
 

DANC

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Not wanting a corrupt wannabe dictator to overrule scientists on a scientific decision (about how much data needed to be analyzed to grant EUA) , in order to favor political gain, is not anti-vaccine, it is anti-grifter.
Goat, come and get your boy.
 
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DANC

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Based on Trump's own words, direct quotes, mind you

I think we should have it before the election...They want to play their games ... No president’s ever pushed them like I’ve pushed them either, to be honest with you.”
What the hell is wrong with what he said?

He shouldn't have pushed them? If he hadn't pushed them, more people would have died. But that's beside the point for you.

Such a bummer for you the vaccine was developed while Trump was President.
 

DANC

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You're conflating two things, development and authorization. No one is criticizing him for his role in expediting the development of the vaccine. Some are refusing to give him credit, but they aren't criticizing him for it, and never did.

What he was criticized for was suggesting he might try to rush the authorization process for political reasons. He deserved criticism for that. And let's not forget, said criticism was pretty muted. No matter how many articles you find, they will all be quoting the same small handful of statements made by a few people. I think the one quoted in the article you linked is probably the only time Biden even spoke on the subject. It wasn't actually that big of a deal, and for good reason: for all his blabbering, Trump really didn't have any mechanism to rush the EUA. The FDA were going to act when they were going to act, and Trump couldn't really do anything about it.
Yeah, it would have been better if we'd have waited the 12 months the FDA requires before the vaccines had been handed out. That's what you want, right? Then a lot more people would have died and you would have criticized him for not cutting red tape.

Meanwhile, sleepy Joe is pushing the same vaccine STILL not approved by the FDA. But hey - no problem there.
 
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TheOriginalHappyGoat

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Yeah, it would have been better if we'd have waited the 12 months the FDA requires before the vaccines had been handed out. That's what you want, right? Then a lot more people would have died and you would have criticized him for not cutting red tape.

Meanwhile, sleepy Joe is pushing the same vaccine STILL not approved by the FDA. But hey - no problem there.
Do you have serious problems with reading comprehension, or do you simply enjoy ignoring what people actually write and making up straw men to attack, instead?
 
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stollcpa

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Bullshit.

You never once thought you were making a relevant, timely observation about Biden's current health when you brought up truck driving.

That's crap. Don't blame me for your own post. You couldn't possibly believe that either.
.
And, I previously held off saying this about your original post, which linked a three month old article that you claimed to prove Biden had "lied." (Calling something a "lie" with a question mark at the end is still affirmatively calling it a "lie".). You are misusing the word "lie", which is something that is untrue when spoken (not something that turns out to appear wrong on different facts three months later).

Three months. I'd bet it's highly likely that you, after decades of tax preparation and accounting advice, have recommended more than once that your clients amend their tax returns or financial statements after they signed off on them three months earlier based on your original advice. I'm sure you'll agree that wouldn't be a lie either.

When you did that, did you tell them your original advice was a "lie," or just something that later looked different after the brief passage of time and acquisition of additional information?
Biden needs to quit making blanket promises about Covid. I believe he knew when he made the statement about being vaccinated and masks he knew he was lying. He was trying to get more people vaccinated.

Biden lies just like Trump did. He’s not going to tell as many because his keepers are going to keep him away from the media as much as possible.
 

TheOriginalHappyGoat

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Biden needs to quit making blanket promises about Covid. I believe he knew when he made the statement about being vaccinated and masks he knew he was lying. He was trying to get more people vaccinated.

Biden lies just like Trump did. He’s not going to tell as many because his keepers are going to keep him away from the media as much as possible.
Biden is not a medical expert. When he said what he said, he was passing along what his medical experts advised him. In what world can you call that "lying?"
 

UncleMark

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Biden needs to quit making blanket promises about Covid. I believe he knew when he made the statement about being vaccinated and masks he knew he was lying. He was trying to get more people vaccinated.

Biden and the CDC screwed up by declaring victory too early. Neither imagined the level of vaccine resistance we have seen, nor did they account for the possibility of a more virulent variant like we've seen with Delta.
 

outside shooter

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Science is not a collection of facts. It is instead a method of determining what is true. When recommendations based on scientific knowledge changes, it is not that they lied to you before. Rather, THEY LEARNED MORE.
 
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stollcpa

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Biden and the CDC screwed up by declaring victory too early. Neither imagined the level of vaccine resistance we have seen, nor did they account for the possibility of a more virulent variant like we've seen with Delta.
Okay they screwed up. The more screwups they keep making give the antivaxers more ammunition.
 

DANC

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However, even after development of the vaccines, did Trump ever do anything to actually encourage his followers to receive the vaccine?

I remember that stories came out in the first month of the Biden administration to the effect that Trump, wife, and certain family members had privately received their vaccines in the last days of his Presidency, but there was no announcement from Trump back then to encourage his followers to get vaccinated. In other words, Trump got his (as always) but did nothing to encourage his followers to get theirs -- he was content to just let them think he was still opposed.

Getting injected is at least as important as encouraging a massive drug company to develop a profitable vaccine that drug companies were going to develop anyway.
You mean like getting over 1 million per day vaccinated before he left office?

You really are a piece of work.
 
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stollcpa

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Biden is not a medical expert. When he said what he said, he was passing along what his medical experts advised him. In what world can you call that "lying?"
Politicians would never ignore advice or facts and lie to achieve their political goals. Biden has lied and plagiarized enough that there’s no reason to believe him anymore than other politicians.
 

DANC

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Politicians would never ignore advice or facts and lie to achieve their political goals. Biden has lied and plagiarized enough that there’s no reason to believe him anymore than other politicians.
When Trump said what the experts told him, it's lying.

It's not when Biden does it.

Got it?
 

TheOriginalHappyGoat

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Do you not understand when your point has been refuted? Or choosing to misdirect because you're embarrassed at what you've written?
LOL. Not only did you not refute my point, you didn't even address it. You created a straw man, instead.

Are you really too dense to realize that your act is easy for everyone to see through?
 

TheOriginalHappyGoat

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Politicians would never ignore advice or facts and lie to achieve their political goals. Biden has lied and plagiarized enough that there’s no reason to believe him anymore than other politicians.
Fine, you don't trust Biden. But that's not really relevant to the point at hand. Biden was telling us what the CDC was telling us. Now, the CDC has changed course.

I've heard several experts say that the CDC was wrong, that they jumped the gun, and that their change in direction now is a direct result of moving too fast earlier. So the CDC may deserve some serious criticism for this. But none of that means that Biden repeating the CDC's guidance is somehow a "lie." To characterize it as such is exactly the kind of ridiculous nonsense that you started this thread with, and which I was talking about when I begged you to do better.
 
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UncleMark

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Okay they screwed up. The more screwups they keep making give the antivaxers more ammunition.
If you can believe the most recent reports, vaccination rates are going back up in a lot of the lagging areas. Covid itself is convincing people who wouldn't otherwise listen to reason.
 
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TheOriginalHappyGoat

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If you can believe the most recent reports, vaccination rates are going back up in a lot of the lagging areas. Covid itself is convincing people who wouldn't otherwise listen to reason.
I've seen the same, but this uptick in vaccinations is still based on preliminary numbers, so we'll need to wait a bit to see if it's for real.
 

UncleMark

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I've heard several experts say that the CDC was wrong, that they jumped the gun, and that their change in direction now is a direct result of moving to fast earlier. So the CDC may deserve some serious criticism for this.

Hindsight always 20/20, yada yada.

I was actually surprised (pleasantly, I admit) the CDC announced their new masking guidance when they did. I expected it to happen closer to July 4th than Memorial Day.
 

TheOriginalHappyGoat

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Are you really too dense to realize how partisan you are?
No, unlike you, I'm quite self-aware. I'm a liberal Democrat, and I have biases I must guard against because of that. But the discussion at hand isn't even a partisan one. It's simply a matter of your inability to properly understand the English language.
 

DANC

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No, unlike you, I'm quite self-aware. I'm a liberal Democrat, and I have biases I must guard against because of that. But the discussion at hand isn't even a partisan one. It's simply a matter of your inability to properly understand the English language.
Misdirection. You asked for proof - I provided it. You're pathetic.
 

cosmickid

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No, I'm not. You simply don't know how to read.
This time last year we all were hoping for a vaccine. I don't think that I ever really considered the possibility that we could have a vax that the medical community declared was effective and safe and people would refuse to take it...

Some Pubs seem to feel the vaccine lost its effectiveness and became less safe after Jan 20. Now that is some magic trick...Why would anyone take any of these folks seriously?

 

Stuffshot

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You mean like getting over 1 million per day vaccinated before he left office?

You really are a piece of work.
You can't count.

I asked what one person (Trump) did to encourage Trump followers to get vaccinated. You didn't come up with one single thing.

I didn't ask what one million other people supposedly did.
 

Stuffshot

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LOL. Not only did you not refute my point, you didn't even address it. You created a straw man, instead.

Are you really too dense to realize that your act is easy for everyone to see through?
Worse yet, he has recruited Stoll to help him create distractions.
 

Stuffshot

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If you can believe the most recent reports, vaccination rates are going back up in a lot of the lagging areas. Covid itself is convincing people who wouldn't otherwise listen to reason.
CNN reported a few minutes ago that daily vaccinations of Americans now exceed 400,000 and is trending upward.

Nothing like a rash or fires to cause people to get fire insurance.
 

Spartans9312

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The wife showed me an angry Facebook post from a friend who was just alerted that his 3 year old child's preschool will require the kids to wear masks. The responses are really something. I don't think many people realize the anger among parents regarding some of these indefensible requirements.

Overwhelming parents, both Democrats and Republicans, agreed with him that requiring these preschoolers to wear masks is ridiculous. A few non-parents jumped in to justify the requirement before getting educated and disappearing.

We've known for more than a year that young kids are at little to no risk from Covid and that masks do more harm than good for kids that age. Yet here we are with institutions still using fake science to justify bad policy. Just like keeping schools closed.

I saw a bunch of angry headlines the other day about Florida letting parents choose if their kids wear masks.

How many of these people could guess anywhere near how many kids under 16 have died in Florida from Covid-19?

The answer is 7. During the whole deadly pandemic.
 
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Cortez88

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This is very positive news and highlights some of the poor reporting of anecdotal breakthrough infections. This is the news that should be amplified to urge the hesitant folks to get the vaccine.

Study: Less than 1% of fully vaccinated people experiencing breakthrough COVID infections

 

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