Bellamy, Rayl, the Van Arsdales, McGinnis

Univee2

Hall of Famer
Aug 7, 2002
14,117
4,531
113
And then approximately twenty years of national relevance when IU was in - and expected to be in - the national conversation nearly every year. Three NCAA championships and several other years when IU was really close.

This year will make thirty-four - as in 34 - years since the last banner. No news to anyone here.

IU has a great history, but I wonder how anyone under, say, 40-45 years old can sometimes identify with what it was really like to see some of the greats, to experience Assembly Hall when the building shook all game long and to know that IU was prepared to play. A game might be lost to a team with better players but IU always battled and usually won those battles, frequently against teams who probably were "better."

The last couple of decades haven't been fun or enjoyable for anyone. The run to the championship game against Maryland and the Victor/Hulls/Cody highs felt good, but, overall, this has been a period of walking around blindly in the desert.

I thought/hoped Archie Miller, based on his work at UD, would be the one to bring the program back. It's a sad, sad day when IU basketball fans - fans who are loyal and likely long-term supporters and who have been Covided from following the team - have no other option but to boo the coach at the end of another dumpster-fire of a season. I don't blame them. When things fall to the bottom you go with all you have left.

I am hopeful that those in the high pay grades see the light and make the right moves that can generate another two-decade era of success. I'm on record as being skeptical that IU's PTB (AD, President and BOT) can do that. I really hope I'm wrong and that we'll all get to enjoy a resurgence.
 

MikeHoncho69

Sophomore
Jan 15, 2018
823
1,050
93
The key question is whether the powers that be are seriously committed to winning at the highest level. I have my doubts.

It's a lot like the Chicago Cubs prior to winning the 2016 World Series. The Tribune Company owned the team, and knew Wrigley Field would always sell out no matter how awful the team was. They sat back and cashed checks without caring if the team won or lost. It took a change in ownership for the organization to do the type of things it takes to win at a championship level.

I'm hoping the change from Fred Glass to Scott Dolson will be the type of change IU needs to get back to where it belongs in the college basketball landscape. That begins with Dolson doing the right thing and letting Miller go.
 

ncthomas31

Benchwarmer
Nov 7, 2008
244
173
43
Being 38 I was alive for the 1987 win but I was 4 and remember nothing of it. I more like to hear my dad tell stories of the 76 undefeated team Ali my with the 81 and 87 teams. I did have the privilege of watching someone like Calvert Cheney who was a freak in college. I did get to see a Cubs World Series win in 2016 so here’s to hoping before I die for an IU title!
 

Jayhoosier83

Freshman
Gold Member
Jan 18, 2017
419
281
63
Being 38 I was alive for the 1987 win but I was 4 and remember nothing of it. I more like to hear my dad tell stories of the 76 undefeated team Ali my with the 81 and 87 teams. I did have the privilege of watching someone like Calvert Cheney who was a freak in college. I did get to see a Cubs World Series win in 2016 so here’s to hoping before I die for an IU title!
Same age as you and my best memory was sitting a few rows behind the announcers at the Hoosier Dome in December 1993 for IU vs Kentucky "Banc (k)? One Classic" game. Kentucky was #1 in the country and we were coming off an embarrasing (at the time) loss to Butler and ended up winning 96-94. Where my family was sitting, we coild clearly hear every cuss word Bob Knight was throwing at the players.
 

Marvin the Martian

Hall of Famer
Sep 4, 2001
29,983
13,644
113
IF it were me, I'd say time to change. I don't know where this all went wrong, I remember Knight giving a speech in Bloomington shortly after Miller was hired and saying what a great coach Miller was going to be. It isn't Knight's style to say kind things out of politeness. Yet it is clear this team wasn't particularly close to competing to a standard we would expect.

But I don't think the university will make a change. Maybe I am wrong, but with Allen's new contract and the overall revenue loss the last year, I don't see them wanting to buy out a contract and then pay what it would take to bring in someone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: All4You

Tscurlo

Sophomore
Dec 11, 2011
927
334
63
to know that IU was prepared to play.

Bingo..... in my opinion.... I do not see this teams as having a TEAM mentality and being ready to play as a team.

I'm assuming Univee2 was referring to the Coach when he said "was prepared to play"... but my focus is specifically on each team member being prepared to play... and to play as a WHOLE TEAM UNIT.... and not individuals.

The point in the game where I nearly shattered my tv....is when TJD did the slam dunk, turned around and looked at the kid with the white headband and did his heman monkey routine. To me.... all this is saying is.... LOOK AT ME!!!! LOOK WHAT "I" DID!!!! What a real teammate would have done..... is turn around and yell at Rob Phinisee and say Thanks for a great pass..... and start clapping at his teammates and yell Let's Go!!!!

This team has NO unity at all. This is why they will never go anywhere. Part of that problem is the coach!!!!

Just my humble two cents.
 
Last edited:

asindc

Freshman
Mar 21, 2005
468
276
63
Bingo..... in my opinion.... I do not see this teams as having a TEAM mentality and being ready to play as a team.

I'm assuming Univee2 was referring to the Coach when he said "was prepared to play"... but my focus is specifically on each team member being prepared to play... and to play as a WHOLE TEAM UNIT.... and not individuals.

The point in the game where I nearly shattered my tv....is when TJD did the slam dunk, turned around and looked at the kid with the white headband and did his heman monkey routine. To me.... all this is saying is.... LOOK AT ME!!!! LOOK WHAT "I" DID!!!! What a real teammate would have done..... is turn around and yell at Rob Phinisee and say Thanks for a great pass..... and start clapping at his teammates and yell Let's Go!!!!

This team has NO unity at all. This is why they will never go anywhere. Part of that problem is the coach!!!!

Just my humble two cents.

Not debating your general point, but with regard to the bolded part, have you seen other college teams play, including good teams? It’s par for the course these days.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4IUSox2

Tscurlo

Sophomore
Dec 11, 2011
927
334
63
Not debating your general point, but with regard to the bolded part, have you seen other college teams play, including good teams? It’s par for the course these days.

Totally agree Asindc!!!! Maybe that's why I like girl's high school basketball over college ball now.

At least there is some regards to the rules and the way Basketball was played in the olden days.
 

Birnk403

All-American
Nov 17, 2019
5,848
3,310
113
The key question is whether the powers that be are seriously committed to winning at the highest level. I have my doubts.

It's a lot like the Chicago Cubs prior to winning the 2016 World Series. The Tribune Company owned the team, and knew Wrigley Field would always sell out no matter how awful the team was. They sat back and cashed checks without caring if the team won or lost. It took a change in ownership for the organization to do the type of things it takes to win at a championship level.

I'm hoping the change from Fred Glass to Scott Dolson will be the type of change IU needs to get back to where it belongs in the college basketball landscape. That begins with Dolson doing the right thing and letting Miller go.
Why would you expect the change from Glass to Dolson would elicit a different result? SD is an acolyte of FG and operates almost identically in about every meaningful way.
 

UncleMark

Hall of Famer
Sep 1, 2001
23,252
21,873
113
But I don't think the university will make a change. Maybe I am wrong, but with Allen's new contract and the overall revenue loss the last year, I don't see them wanting to buy out a contract and then pay what it would take to bring in someone.
Supposedly money is not the issue (big donors). The hard part would be using that money to pay CAM to go away, while at the same time canceling some minor sports claiming financial problems. Of course that assumes the rumors about the minor sport cancellations are correct.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marvin the Martian

Stuffshot

All-American
Feb 20, 2008
9,011
4,023
113
And then approximately twenty years of national relevance when IU was in - and expected to be in - the national conversation nearly every year. Three NCAA championships and several other years when IU was really close.

This year will make thirty-four - as in 34 - years since the last banner. No news to anyone here.

IU has a great history, but I wonder how anyone under, say, 40-45 years old can sometimes identify with what it was really like to see some of the greats, to experience Assembly Hall when the building shook all game long and to know that IU was prepared to play. A game might be lost to a team with better players but IU always battled and usually won those battles, frequently against teams who probably were "better."

The last couple of decades haven't been fun or enjoyable for anyone. The run to the championship game against Maryland and the Victor/Hulls/Cody highs felt good, but, overall, this has been a period of walking around blindly in the desert.

I thought/hoped Archie Miller, based on his work at UD, would be the one to bring the program back. It's a sad, sad day when IU basketball fans - fans who are loyal and likely long-term supporters and who have been Covided from following the team - have no other option but to boo the coach at the end of another dumpster-fire of a season. I don't blame them. When things fall to the bottom you go with all you have left.

I am hopeful that those in the high pay grades see the light and make the right moves that can generate another two-decade era of success. I'm on record as being skeptical that IU's PTB (AD, President and BOT) can do that. I really hope I'm wrong and that we'll all get to enjoy a resurgence.
TL/DR but I noticed that all the amazing players in your headline played under a completely different set of rules (i.e. no 3-point shot, no shot clock, no sissy arc under the basket, and entirely different recruiting and GPA rules off the court and on and on).

Each and every one of Knight's teams would have suffered from the myriad NCAA rule changes that now favor an offensive player over a defensive player.

History only explains a tiny bit of it.
 

Crossblock

Junior
Jan 8, 2019
1,450
2,242
113
I think it would be good to go back to basics. Why do teams fail to live up to expectations/potential? It comes down to several possibilities:

1. We have overrated the talent, and expectations are set too high.

2. The players are talented enough, but the Coach is running Defensive and Offensive systems that don't take advantage of the Players Talents. Either the Coach has recruited Players who don't fit his system, or once the Coach realizes this he is too stubborn to try to adjust his system to the talent.

3. The Players have talent coming in, but they don't show improvement year to year as they gain experience and playing time. Either the Coaches don't know how to improve the talent or the Players don't have the desire to work to improve.

4. The team lacks Chemistry. Teams that win don't seem to have Chemistry Problems. I'm not a fan of the term Chemistry. I think a better term is Cohesiveness. You don't have to be best buddies off the Court with the guy playing next to you, or agree with everything he does or thinks. Once you are on the Court you need to carry out your assignments to make the Team and each of you better.

5. Once you get into the middle of the Season and you are trying to execute everything the Coaching Staff is asking you to do, and you don't get positive results, Players start to question the competency of the Coaching Staff and stop listening. Maybe your Star Player goes off script and ad libs to everybody's detriment. Maybe the coach loses control of the Team, as Players stop listening to and following the Coach. Players think they are so good and so important that no matter what they do the Coach won't replace them with some walk on. The Coach gets discouraged, but is too afraid to stand up to the Players and the Avalanche continues.

I don't know what alternative fits our situation, but I do know that it is easier to replace one Coach rather than 15 Players.
 

gmhowes

Sophomore
Gold Member
Jun 3, 2007
899
730
93
TL/DR but I noticed that all the amazing players in your headline played under a completely different set of rules (i.e. no 3-point shot, no shot clock, no sissy arc under the basket, and entirely different recruiting and GPA rules off the court and on and on).

Each and every one of Knight's teams would have suffered from the myriad NCAA rule changes that now favor an offensive player over a defensive player.

History only explains a tiny bit of it.
The 3pt. Shot arrived when Alford as a Senior scored 33 against UNLV, I think 97-93. Knight used the line to win # 5 Rule changes should not affect a coach and his ability to adapt. That is our problem. Our coaches are not quick enough to make any adjustments to the other teams strenghts or weaknesses.
 

ThreeToMakeTwo

All-Big Ten
Oct 2, 2001
4,167
1,359
113
Bob Knight was one bucky badger blabbermouth from being Wisconsin’s head coach. We got lucky on that one.
 

Birnk403

All-American
Nov 17, 2019
5,848
3,310
113
This aged well
Yep, I didn’t think Dolson would fire him. Neither did you, though you’re way too small and insecure to admit that. Hiring will be the test. Most of us (not you, though) understand that. Cool that you’re finding old posts of mine, though. Love your insecurity and inferiority.

DMs, Jimmy?
 

Courtsensetwo

Hall of Famer
Oct 16, 2004
27,594
13,499
113
Yep, I didn’t think Dolson would fire him. Neither did you, though you’re way too small and insecure to admit that. Hiring will be the test. Most of us (not you, though) understand that. Cool that you’re finding old posts of mine, though. Love your insecurity and inferiority.

DMs, Jimmy?

I did not think it would happen for various reasons none of what were what YOU claimed about him being weak and having no authority

You look very foolish
 

Birnk403

All-American
Nov 17, 2019
5,848
3,310
113
I did not think it would happen for various reasons none of what were what YOU claimed about him being weak and having no authority

You look very foolish
You think he did this on his own? Youve been exposed as not being connected, but you aren’t this dumb, are you?

DMs, Jimmy?