Beginning of the End For Kirk Ferentz?

Discussion in 'IU Football Board' started by Crossblock, Jun 19, 2020.

  1. Crossblock

    Crossblock Sophomore
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    You probably saw the story over the weekend that Iowa's long time strength Coach resigned after reports of Player mistreatment and particularly statements from former Players that much of it appeared to be racially directed.
    On the one hand, Ferentz is currently the longest tenured Coach at one School (23 or 24 Years). Iowa also has a very Loyal Fan Base. And Ferentz has been highly successful.

    On the other hand, with the racial divide in this Country, and attitude, anyone who is perceived to be in the same Zip Code as a Racially Motivated Incident is guilty by Association. The Head Coach of a football team can't be everywhere and know everything, but his name is on the Door and the Buck has to stop there. Earlier this week, the Iowa AD gave him the dreaded Vote of Confidence (aka "Kiss of Death).
    If Iowa has a down year, it will be interesting to see how long a Leash the Administration gives him. Age wise, he is approaching his mid 60's. Combine the incidents with a Down Season, and you begin to hear the whispers that he is too old and set in his ways to deal with Today's Athletes.
     
  2. dillonpgp

    dillonpgp Freshman
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    https://www.hawkcentral.com/story/s...ow-kirk-ferentz-contract-gary-barta/89921472/

    depending on how Covid wrecks the season (and how this would be interpreted in the Courts) Ferentz is a 7 win season (out of 12 games) away from guaranteeing the full base of his contract through 2025 no matter when he leaves.

    if Iowa wants him to leave, they are going to have to pay him everything, and that’s a lot of money, even for a b10 school with the media rights share of the pie.

    AD Barta’s presser makes it pretty clear, they aren’t looking to let him go.
     
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  3. Sope Creek

    Sope Creek Hall of Famer
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    Agreed. That said, even with a 7 win season in 2020, if recruiting suffers from the racial issues alleged then paying the full base salary through 2025 could be a nice way of saying to Ferentz "thanks for the memories".

    BTW, is his base salary a significant % of total compensation? Might be a fairly easy nut to crack if it's not too much.
     
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  4. crossfire74

    crossfire74 All-American
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    My opinion is he probably won't survive this, and in all honesty, he shouldn't. The HC KNOWS what's up. He KNOWS the culture that's created. He may claim publically he didn't know, but if he truly didn't, he wouldn't have lasted as long as he has there because that would mean there was a part of his program that he wasn't in control of.

    As someone pointed out on another board, and I agree with them. Doyle's firing probably bought Ferentz this season, but it's likely he will retire after this one. The days of fostering any kind of racial divide are over. No longer can ADs, School Presidents, Board of Trustees simply look the other way. Unfortunately it appears that Ferentz was fostering that kind of atmosphere for most, if not all, of his tenure at Iowa. If he wasn't at a Country school like Iowa, he would have been out the door pretty quickly, but it does appear that they will allow him to ride off into the sunset as he desires, since it's awful late to be firing a HC.
     
  5. vesuvius13

    vesuvius13 All-Big Ten
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    Another reason he should have known what was going on is the comments about his son as the coach at Iowa. If he son was making racial comments like what was said by former players then you know it was part of his upbringing and the atmosphere at Iowa.

    I think it is telling that coach Allen was the first D1 coach to comment on the situation in MN and across the country.
     
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  6. Crossblock

    Crossblock Sophomore
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    You are right in that Coaches are Control Freaks. They control every aspect of a Game Plan, Many Call every Offensive Play, and the Personnel Groups. It's hard to believe that a Coach who wants that much control would not know what his Assistants are doing, or have heard rumblings of this, perhaps even with a Player with whom he is conducting a Year End Interview, or an Exit Interview with a Senior or Transfer who has no incentive to hold anything back.

    I give Coaches a little more leeway with Player Conduct. Yes they have spent time recruiting, probably in the home with family and relatives. You are dealing with 18-22 Year Olds who make bad decisions and get themselves in trouble. You can't babysit 85 plus Players 24-7. My exception to this is if there were indications of conduct problems coming out of high school, or someone you have dealt with who blows a Second Chance.
     
  7. IU Fan 1989

    IU Fan 1989 Freshman
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    we have to be proud of CTA. He gets it. Many on this site laughed at LEO.

    But don’t rush to judgment on the Iowa coach. Let the situation play out. He has a long history and many of his former players should comment. His son may just be an idiot
     
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  8. fkfootball

    fkfootball All-Big Ten
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    I want Iowa to fall off.
     
  9. dillonpgp

    dillonpgp Freshman
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    His base salary in 2021 would be $5 million, increasing $100k a year though 2025. That’s $26 million+ in base salary alone - guaranteed - depending on how the contract is interpreted in 2020 due to Covid ((f he were to win 7 games in a 12 game schedule - that includes Northern Iowa, Northwestern Illinois and Iowa State, does that get reduced if fewer than 12 are actually played? Would 4 B10 wins be deemed enough to satisfy the contract (if only 9 or 10 total games are played)?

    He’s not going anywhere...at least not without a fully loaded Brink’s truck as part of the departure settlement. And given the massive losses higher education is taking (even more so if classes are remote again), coupled with significant reductions in state education expenditures in the face of greatly reduced tax revenues), I just don’t see Iowa being able to make that fly. Ferentz is going to “learn a lot of Valuable lessons” (without ever articulating in detail what even one of those lessons is) so he can stay on. It’s cheaper that way.

    And that doesn’t get into the next problem that Iowa will have. Suppose the outrage makes it impossible for Ferentz to stay. You just terminated a guy whose minimum expectations (generally speaking) was a 7 win season. And you were paying him $5 million a year. What are you going to pay the next guy who walks in the door?
     
  10. Jssanto

    Jssanto Sophomore
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    I disagree that the head coach must know everything. He can’t possibly know where all of his players are every second of the day nor can he know where all of his coaches are. The head coach delegates so much to his staff that I believe it is not only possible but probably likely that he is not aware of the details of the weight room, various position group meetings, etc.
     
  11. IU_Hickory

    IU_Hickory Benchwarmer
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    If his coach was making comments to players, then it was likely at the facility or stadium during a football activity. That is unless the coaches were partying it up with players after hours lol.

    So yes, i think it is reasonable to expect the head coach to know what his assistants are doing/saying during football activities. Not that he would know everything that is said but over years of working with someone, a head coach should have a pretty good idea of how they are with the players
     
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  12. Palmbeachhoosier

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    The only time that strength guys are together with players and other coaches is practice and games. The staff is not allowed to be in weight room or conditioning sessions. It is possible that Ferentz was unaware of situation but probably not likely.
     
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  13. IU_Hickory

    IU_Hickory Benchwarmer
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  14. MyTeamIsOnTheFloor

    MyTeamIsOnTheFloor Hall of Famer
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    Morning coffee ramble:

    The fans on Iowa’s Rivals board say the main former player who is raising hell has been complaining for years as a disgruntled guy who got punished late in his career and never made the NFL splash he was expected to make. He’s now a coach at a non-Power 5 school. Passing that anger along to new generations. Using our modern communications platforms to have our larger modern voice. Etc.

    Hard for outsiders to say what “really” happens in other programs, but in the current environment allegations go farther than usual, and Iowa has - at minimum - a serious “public perception” problem.

    Maybe much worse if any allegations are true.

    Ferentz is thought of as a gentleman and mentor. I’d be surprised to learn that he is a racist.

    Mostly, I think white coaches cross the line unintentionally and stupidly by believing they have developed a relationship with black players that allows them to “jokingly” say things “only us friends can say to each other” as a way of emphasizing a point, etc., and race issues simply do not allow for that. “Joking” with a kid about racial issues is never gonna be OK for currently-living Americans. Those wounds are too deep. They last for multiple generations. Today’s players can have (or have had) grandparents who were born in the 1930s, and when those grandparents were children, they knew people/had relatives who could tell them stories like “my mother was a slave” or “we lived next door to a person who had been a slave.” It’s still that close. Hell, my grandfather’s grandfather fought in the Civil War! I spoke with family members who spoke with people who fought in the Civil War! That is the mystic chords of memory that Lincoln spoke about!

    But we don’t think of all that until times of trouble. We naturally prefer to ignore our troubles and concentrate on better things at better times. It’s human nature. Its hard enough trying to live our own lives and raise our own families without accounting for our ancestors too. But ever so often, the unresolved things flare back up and put some or all of us in the vortex of the times.

    I swear I thought the generations just ahead of me had fixed things. Brown v. Board of Education. The Civil Rights Act of 1964. The Voting Rights Act of 1965. My generation saw so much racial harmony in school, in sports, in music, in arts. Even poverty seemed to be losing ground.

    But here we are again.
     
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  15. IU_Hickory

    IU_Hickory Benchwarmer
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    He claims Kirk cancelled his meal card. Seems like there would have to be more to the story but that's more than just a misunderstanding.
     
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  16. crossfire74

    crossfire74 All-American
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    Isn't that always how it goes though with fanbases. I know the players that called out Kevin Wilson were labeled immediately as whiners/complainers by many posters on many boards. I fully expect their fanbase to stand up for a guy that is a God/walks on water/can't do anything wrong type. Heck Penn State fans stood by Paterno and Sandusky as did Michigan State fans with Larry Nasser and Dantonio. Fandom warps perceptions and causes people to defend things that for those of us on the outside, see the sickness behind the actions of the accused.

    You are right we will never truly know what happened in Iowa, but I've learned that when multiple players over multiple time frames talk, there's usually something to it. Could this ex-RB simply be disgruntled and using this to "get back at Ferentz? Sure he could be, and that has happened before, but as stated, Iowa has major problem on their hands. They've ordered Ferentz not to say anything and that's usually a precursor to we are figuring out how to settle your contract so you can walk away soon. Ferentz did himself no favors by saying he "wasn't aware of any issues with Doyle", then removed Doyle from his staff.

    It'll be interesting to see what recruits start doing. I won't be shocked to see some opt out and ask for the LOI release, which I'm sure Iowa will grant or they'll face much more backlash. I've long thought that Ferentz will not survive this and while it does seem like Iowa is protecting him for this season, I think the further this goes, the likelihood of him coaching this season shrinks by the day. Perhaps he rides out like Dantonio did at MSU a hero, and that's a shame, because he promoted a discrimatory culture in his program on multiple occasions for multiple years. That was never okay, and it shouldn't be championed ever, but sadly, it may be again, just like the others, which proves that college coaches can pedophiles, rapists, racists, etc and still be labeled as heroes to their university and fanbases. Sad!
     
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  17. Crossblock

    Crossblock Sophomore
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    Obviously there are two sides to every story, and we will never know what really happened. Usually the truth lies somewhere in between. Iowa is stuck between a Rock and a Hard Place.

    Ferentz has the longest current tenure of any Coach at one School and he has been very successful. In addition, there is so much uncertainty over the upcoming season that firing him now will result in total chaos. If and when you do fire him, you have to jettison the entire Coaching Staff to assure a total change in culture. If what his son reportedly said is accurate, He can't be the Successor Head Coach.

    Usually what happens is that there is a drop off year that is out of character. I don't think you can measure that this year based upon the uncertainty, but if they go below 500 next year the hand writing is on the wall.
    The other issue that will show itself is recruiting. Historically Iowa has recruited a lot of it's skilled position Black Players from the New York - new Jersey area, Detroit, and Chicago. If there is a drop off in the number and talent of the skilled players they recruit, that will be telling.

    I understand that Ferentz is under Contract for 3-4 more years. Best case for Iowa, a down year in 2021, poor recruiting, many transfers and a frustrated Kirk Ferentz who decides to retire after 2021 for the good of the Program.
     
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  18. vesuvius13

    vesuvius13 All-Big Ten
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    When I was a coach with 40% players from inner city I never said or thought anything racial to my players because I always saw them as people not color. If coaches joke with players with racist words then they should be gone. Those players are people not colored, no matter what race they are, people and the coach should never say racist things even as a joke.
     
    18 vesuvius13, Jul 2, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
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  19. Crossblock

    Crossblock Sophomore
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    There is another issue here that is not a race issue, but a breach of Contract problem. The report is that Ferentz froze or terminated the Player's Meal Card. I have never read a Whole Letter of Intent, Scholarship Paperwork, but I'm sure that it says that the University is required to provide Meals or Food related items as part of the arrangement.
    If the Player was still under scholarship at the time this happened and Ferentz did this without any authority under Scholarship Agreement, Ferentz and Iowa violated the terms of the Agreement and effectively breached the Contract.
    The Second Question is if this is a Breach what is the Measure of Damages?
     
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  20. indy1203

    indy1203 All-American
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    If a program is showing signs of being too successful
    and the name is not Ohio State or Michigan expect
    some type of controversy to swirl. Could be just the
    coach asking the players to get a haircut, nah.
     
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  21. Big Red Crimson Buffalo

    Big Red Crimson Buffalo Hall of Famer
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    This whole thing has decimated the Iowa program so much that they currently have the #12 recruiting class and 17 committed kids for next year with not a hint of waiver on any of them. When it comes to wins and losses, these type of things blow over quickly . They had the fall guy. The vocal guys that are ex-players come with a lot of baggage. Nothing to see here.
     
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