Begging TJD to stay

speroni

Senior
Feb 4, 2004
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Culver City, CA
I wasn't crazy about Coach Woodson's answer to Don Fischer about TJD. He stated that he's "begging" TJD to stay in Bloomington another year. I think that sends the wrong message to TJD, and the rest of the team, that one player is so important that a coach has to beg for him to stay. I doubt he's begging any players in the portal to stay. And so much for the Norman Dale approach! I'd have been much happier if the extent of his remarks was closer to "as an NBA coach, I know I can help Trayce in his desire to become an NBA player. I will recommend that he stay so I can put him in a much stronger position to attract NBA interest. But the decision is his to make. I'd like him to stay - it would be good for him, and frankly good for our team as well. But if he wants to leave, I will wish him well."

I'll admit that I wasn't thrilled about the choice of Woodson for our head coach. On the other hand, I thought that Archie was a great choice and I was certainly wrong about that. I look forward to CMW proving me wrong again!
 
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Bobbyhh

Freshman
Oct 14, 2007
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I wasn't crazy about Coach Woodson's answer to Don Fischer about TJD. He stated that he's "begging" TJD to stay in Bloomington another year. I think that sends the wrong message to TJD, and the rest of the team, that one player is so important that a coach has to beg for him to stay. I doubt he's begging any players in the portal to stay. And so much for the Norman Dale approach! I'd have been much happier if the extent of his remarks was closer to "as an NBA coach, I know I can help Trayce in his desire to become an NBA player. I will recommend that he stay so I can put him in a much stronger position to attract NBA interest. But the decision is his to make. I'd like him to stay - it would be good for him, and frankly good for our team as well. But if he wants to leave, I will wish him well."

I'll admit that I wasn't thrilled about the choice of Woodson for our head coach. On the other hand, I thought that Archie was a great choice and I was certainly wrong about that. I look forward to CMW proving me wrong again!
I think players watch shows like that and making him feel important may help persuade him to stay. Kids today are different and need their egos pumped. CMW knows that it will be much easier for him to recruit top talent to a program that retains most of the players and considered average than a program that loses everyone and starts from scratch. Maybe he could have used a better choice of words but it is probably not a big issue. He did touch on the point that he will develop him more and make him better prepared for the NBA if he stays a year.
 

Fpeaugh2

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Mar 16, 2021
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It wasn’t the right answer. He should have said he’s going to advise TJD on what’s best for TJD, not what’s best for IU or Mike Woodson. That’s what builds credibility.

As a college coach you ALWAYS do what’s best for the kid. Always. If you do that consistently the personal success will come. That’s been Calipari’s magic all this time.
 

ams66

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Dec 30, 2016
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We don't know what Woodson said to TJD in private. Maybe not the best choice of words in a public interview, but doesn't necessarily mean that's the message he delivered to Trayce in person.
 

mobilehoosier

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Nov 17, 2012
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I don’t look for CMW to worry about being politically correct. He was in NY so media is old hat and his college coach, well most of us old timers know how much Coach Knight loved the media. I just want to win. Go Hoosiers!
 
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JIMSHAM

Freshman
Gold Member
Oct 22, 2007
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I wasn't crazy about Coach Woodson's answer to Don Fischer about TJD. He stated that he's "begging" TJD to stay in Bloomington another year. I think that sends the wrong message to TJD, and the rest of the team, that one player is so important that a coach has to beg for him to stay. I doubt he's begging any players in the portal to stay. And so much for the Norman Dale approach! I'd have been much happier if the extent of his remarks was closer to "as an NBA coach, I know I can help Trayce in his desire to become an NBA player. I will recommend that he stay so I can put him in a much stronger position to attract NBA interest. But the decision is his to make. I'd like him to stay - it would be good for him, and frankly good for our team as well. But if he wants to leave, I will wish him well."

I'll admit that I wasn't thrilled about the choice of Woodson for our head coach. On the other hand, I thought that Archie was a great choice and I was certainly wrong about that. I look forward to CMW proving me wrong again!
If I recall right Norman Dale pretty much begged Jimmy Chitwood to play
d Jimmy
 

Victorbmyboy

Junior
Nov 10, 2014
1,658
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It wasn’t the right answer. He should have said he’s going to advise TJD on what’s best for TJD, not what’s best for IU or Mike Woodson. That’s what builds credibility.

As a college coach you ALWAYS do what’s best for the kid. Always. If you do that consistently the personal success will come. That’s been Calipari’s magic all this time.
After seeing some of your posts it leaves no doubt that you are feepee. Go root for UK and Purdue. SMH. He sure has had magic the last few years. Lol
 
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Paterfamilias

All-Big Ten
Dec 3, 2010
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I didn't love it either. That said I think he's going to come off a little odd if they keep putting him in these "fireside chat" situations. I was looking forward to the first Fisch and Woody conversation, but they (IU) had to make it weird. Same with the well wishes to the women's team message. Woodson is a basketball coach not a political candidate/actor. I won't be watching any more of the "making the rounds" propaganda interviews. Can't wait for this part of the hiring to be over
 

rocketo

All-Big Ten
Feb 23, 2007
4,595
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I wasn't crazy about Coach Woodson's answer to Don Fischer about TJD. He stated that he's "begging" TJD to stay in Bloomington another year. I think that sends the wrong message to TJD, and the rest of the team, that one player is so important that a coach has to beg for him to stay. I doubt he's begging any players in the portal to stay. And so much for the Norman Dale approach! I'd have been much happier if the extent of his remarks was closer to "as an NBA coach, I know I can help Trayce in his desire to become an NBA player. I will recommend that he stay so I can put him in a much stronger position to attract NBA interest. But the decision is his to make. I'd like him to stay - it would be good for him, and frankly good for our team as well. But if he wants to leave, I will wish him well."

I'll admit that I wasn't thrilled about the choice of Woodson for our head coach. On the other hand, I thought that Archie was a great choice and I was certainly wrong about that. I look forward to CMW proving me wrong again!
I heard him say almost exactly what you are hoping he would say. I can’t recall which interview it was.
 

Hoosier Hacker

Sophomore
Sep 4, 2001
970
259
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I heard him say almost exactly what you are hoping he would say. I can’t recall which interview it was.
In his introductory press conference, I felt like he once said the exact opposite of begging/ass-kissing. He said something to the effect of, we'll have the players back from the portal we want on our team. Since, basically now that they're in the portal, IU is not obligated to take them back if the players don't find any takers to their liking. I thought to myself at the time that he said it, that it was kind of ominous to players that have now put themselves on such a fence. Sort of like: "you'll have to prove to us that you're going to fit what we're now going to be about."

In the end, it's all just parsing words said off the top of his head during a press conference or an interview. What he says to each player in their individual meetings is all that will matter. And then, the player either decides that he wants to come back or not, or Woodson and the staff decide not move forward with the player and send best wishes on his next destination, ala Grant Gelon.
 
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VanPastorMan

Hall of Famer
Mar 21, 2002
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I wasn't crazy about Coach Woodson's answer to Don Fischer about TJD. He stated that he's "begging" TJD to stay in Bloomington another year. I think that sends the wrong message to TJD, and the rest of the team, that one player is so important that a coach has to beg for him to stay. I doubt he's begging any players in the portal to stay. And so much for the Norman Dale approach! I'd have been much happier if the extent of his remarks was closer to "as an NBA coach, I know I can help Trayce in his desire to become an NBA player. I will recommend that he stay so I can put him in a much stronger position to attract NBA interest. But the decision is his to make. I'd like him to stay - it would be good for him, and frankly good for our team as well. But if he wants to leave, I will wish him well."

I'll admit that I wasn't thrilled about the choice of Woodson for our head coach. On the other hand, I thought that Archie was a great choice and I was certainly wrong about that. I look forward to CMW proving me wrong again!
I thought he did say that he could get TJD ready and move him up in his draft stock. This is the message to send. "I can get you drafted higher" It is good for TJD and every other big name player we are trying to get.
 

Courtsensetwo

Hall of Famer
Oct 16, 2004
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I wasn't crazy about Coach Woodson's answer to Don Fischer about TJD. He stated that he's "begging" TJD to stay in Bloomington another year. I think that sends the wrong message to TJD, and the rest of the team, that one player is so important that a coach has to beg for him to stay. I doubt he's begging any players in the portal to stay. And so much for the Norman Dale approach! I'd have been much happier if the extent of his remarks was closer to "as an NBA coach, I know I can help Trayce in his desire to become an NBA player. I will recommend that he stay so I can put him in a much stronger position to attract NBA interest. But the decision is his to make. I'd like him to stay - it would be good for him, and frankly good for our team as well. But if he wants to leave, I will wish him well."

I'll admit that I wasn't thrilled about the choice of Woodson for our head coach. On the other hand, I thought that Archie was a great choice and I was certainly wrong about that. I look forward to CMW proving me wrong again!
Well, I don't know the context of what he said to TJD in private. but as I have said; If I am Woody I set the tone right here and right now. If you are in the portal you can come interview for your position on the roster.

"Begging" (if that is indeed what happened) sends the wrong message in my leadership experience.
 
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TommyCracker

Hall of Famer
Mar 18, 2004
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I think the elephant in the room is the fan base.

Meaning right now Woodson has two gigantic things going for him at Indiana....the typical new coach honeymoon period and he's a Knight guy, so he's going to have a very loud and passionate backing.

That 'should' be a great thing but make no mistake, kids know that if something goes bad the kid will be scapegoated probably more than normal in the beginning.

Hell Dakich already has a big platform.

I mean our base has ferociously defended Alford from a moral standpoint when it came to Pierce.

My point being, I'm sure TJD is aware that a huge chunk of the fan base including guys like Dakich are going to rip his ass publicly if he goes pro. He'll be labeled as selfish, stupid, not ready and hope he fails.

I'm personally going to be watching the base. Are we going to defend to the death everything Woodson does because of the Knight shine or are we going to go back with the Mike Davis racial nonsense if he struggles?

My hope is that we've gotten used to coaches and simply give him a shot and try to be as honest with the performance that we can be when we get it.

Are we playing good basketball or not? That will be the question.
 
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VanPastorMan

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Mar 21, 2002
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I think the elephant in the room is the fan base.

Meaning right now Woodson has to gigantic things going for him at Indiana....the typical new coach honeymoon period and he's a Knight guy, so he's going to have a very loud and passionate backing.

That 'should' be a great thing but make no mistake, kids know that if something goes bad the kid will be scapegoated probably more than normal.

Hell Dakich already has a big platform.

I mean our base has ferociously defended Alford from a moral standpoint when it came to Pierce.

My point being, I'm sure TJD is aware that a huge chunk of the fan base including guys like Dakich are going to rip his ass publicly if he goes pro. He'll be labeled as selfish, stupid, not ready and hope he fails.

I'm personally going to be watching the base. Are we going to defend to the death everything Woodson does because of the Knight shine or are we going to go back with the Mike Davis racial nonsense if he struggles?

My hope is that we've gotten used to coaches and simply give him a shot and try to be as honest with the performance that we can be when we get it.

Are we playing good basketball or not? That will be the question.
I only defend Alford when people act like he either raped the woman or held her down while Pierce did it. I defend Alford when people act as if Alford attacked the woman while knowing for certain she was raped. This is not what happened. Alford believed his player who said he didn't rape her. Alford defended Pierce. He thought the guy was innocent. What do people not get here?
 
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TommyCracker

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Mar 18, 2004
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I only defend Alford when people act like he either raped the woman or held her down while Pierce did it. I defend Alford when people act as if Alford attacked the woman while knowing for certain she was raped. This is not what happened. Alford believed his player who said he didn't rape her. Alford defended Pierce. He thought the guy was innocent. What do people not get here?

That's fine privately, but Alford very publicly said he thought Pierce was innocent.

That turns the public narrative into 'the bitch is lying and trying to hurt the program' which turns the fan base against her in a power play.

He never tried to course correct that either to my knowledge.

Then on top of it he brought the victim and the predator together to get them to hug it out in the name of Jesus (allegedly, the meeting was confirmed but we've gone back and forth on Alford's role).

It was an insanely bad lack of judgement made worse that he never tried to correct it.
 

VanPastorMan

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That's fine privately, but Alford very publicly said he thought Pierce was innocent.

That turns the public narrative into 'the bitch is lying and trying to hurt the program' which turns the fan base against her in a power play.

He never tried to course correct that either to my knowledge.

Then on top of it he brought the victim and the predator together to get them to hug it out in the name of Jesus (allegedly, the meeting was confirmed but we've gone back and forth on Alford's role).

It was an insanely bad lack of judgement made worse that he never tried to correct it.
Steve obviously admitted he was wrong in his judgment of Pierce's truthfulness. If he believed Pierce then he had to publicly say so. Steve as the head coach and with Pierce being a player it became public. The best scenario would have been that it wasn't public. Bringing them together I am fuzzy on what exactly happened there. I admit.
 
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Dwader3

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Oct 6, 2010
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It wasn’t the right answer. He should have said he’s going to advise TJD on what’s best for TJD, not what’s best for IU or Mike Woodson. That’s what builds credibility.

As a college coach you ALWAYS do what’s best for the kid. Always. If you do that consistently the personal success will come. That’s been Calipari’s magic all this time.
Calipari's fanbase is ready to set him on fire too.
 
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TommyCracker

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Steve obviously admitted he was wrong in his judgment of Pierce's truthfulness. If he believed Pierce then he had to publicly say so. Steve as the head coach and with Pierce being a player it became public. The best scenario would have been that it wasn't public. Bringing them together I am fuzzy on what exactly happened there. I admit.

My disagreement here is that Steve had to publicly say Pierce was innocent.

I even think it's much different if Steve would publicly say 'he tells me that he's innocent'.

That's still bad judgement but not at the level of siding publicly with lays he cards down with a potential rapist (which the trial proved was the case).

I'm not the sharpest tool but I got to think the standard protocol is to pull Pierce aside, publicly play dumb until we can get to the bottom of things and then privately tell Pierce you believe him and support him.

Obviously Steve was just trying to get his big player back on the court and just looked at it as an annoying distraction. I'm also guessing that coaches deal with accusations all the time from theft to unpaid parking tickets to missing class, etc.

Look at the culture up at MSU.

I'm babbling but for me the critical error was him publicly saying Pierce was innocent.

Just extremely bad judgement of a leader.

I seriously have no idea what he was thinking. Even if it turns out she was lying or it was just a relationship dispute, you are still painted as a callous I'm just concerned about getting wins kind of person.

There are zero positive outcomes from saying that publicly. Zero.
 
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speroni

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I'm personally going to be watching the base. Are we going to defend to the death everything Woodson does because of the Knight shine or are we going to go back with the Mike Davis racial nonsense if he struggles?
I'm HOPING it will be neither. It certainly would be nice if we can look at the coach through realistic eyes. While he wasn't one of my top choices, I can look at his success at what he built in Atlanta in a positive light. Coach Woodson is the coach of the IU basketball team and he has my support. However, it's not a blind support. I certainly hope he leads the team back to being contenders in both the B1G and nationally. I'll be cheering on every one of his (and the team's) successes. And if he doesn't succeed, I'll criticize him the same way I criticized Archie... Either he gets the job done, or he doesn't. Neither the university he attended, nor the color of his skin has anything to do with it.
 
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VanPastorMan

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My disagreement here is that Steve had to publicly say Pierce was innocent.

I even think it's much different if Steve would publicly say 'he tells me that he's innocent'.

That's still bad judgement but not at the level of siding publicly with lays he cards down with a potential rapist (which the trial proved was the case).

I'm not the sharpest tool but I got to think the standard protocol is to pull Pierce aside, publicly play dumb until we can get to the bottom of things and then privately tell Pierce you believe him and support him.

Obviously Steve was just trying to get his big player back on the court and just looked at it as an annoying distraction. I'm also guessing that coaches deal with accusations all the time from theft to unpaid parking tickets to missing class, etc.

Look at the culture up at MSU.

I'm babbling but for me the critical error was him publicly saying Pierce was innocent.

Just extremely bad judgement of a leader.

I seriously have no idea what he was thinking. Even if it turns out she was lying or it was just a relationship dispute, you are still painted as a callous I'm just concerned about getting wins kind of person.

There are zero positive outcomes from saying that publicly. Zero.
I see your point. If he said,"he said he was innocent" it would not have looked as bad. But to vilify a guy over a few words of difference is my problem. I don't know Alford's heart, meaning the reason why he believed Pierce was innocent. Some guys are good at covering up their wrongs. Perhaps Pierce was very good at sounding innocent so Steve completely got bamboozled.
 
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IUHoopster

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Dec 21, 2001
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I wasn't crazy about Coach Woodson's answer to Don Fischer about TJD. He stated that he's "begging" TJD to stay in Bloomington another year. I think that sends the wrong message to TJD, and the rest of the team, that one player is so important that a coach has to beg for him to stay. I doubt he's begging any players in the portal to stay. And so much for the Norman Dale approach! I'd have been much happier if the extent of his remarks was closer to "as an NBA coach, I know I can help Trayce in his desire to become an NBA player. I will recommend that he stay so I can put him in a much stronger position to attract NBA interest. But the decision is his to make. I'd like him to stay - it would be good for him, and frankly good for our team as well. But if he wants to leave, I will wish him well."

I'll admit that I wasn't thrilled about the choice of Woodson for our head coach. On the other hand, I thought that Archie was a great choice and I was certainly wrong about that. I look forward to CMW proving me wrong again!
We all know that he is the best player on the team and the fans want to hear that he is staying. Don’t read too much into it
 

rikki-tikka-tava

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I only defend Alford when people act like he either raped the woman or held her down while Pierce did it. I defend Alford when people act as if Alford attacked the woman while knowing for certain she was raped. This is not what happened. Alford believed his player who said he didn't rape her. Alford defended Pierce. He thought the guy was innocent. What do people not get here?
"What do people not get here?

For someone who flaunts 'spiritiuality' like Versace you're awfully dense. It's called 'enabling' and it's what men, society and institutions have been doing to women for centuries. TCracker may be right about Alford's motivation for doing what he did but it really doesn't matter - his initial and complete dismissal of the allegations against Pierce showed an abysmal lack of judgment.

If you don't "get" how that type of behavior immunizes sexual predators from their victims and protects them from consequences while fostering the problem, maybe you should try a different book - optimally one that isn't so reliant on chauvinist parables/narrative.
 

TR32

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Nov 20, 2009
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It wasn’t the right answer. He should have said he’s going to advise TJD on what’s best for TJD, not what’s best for IU or Mike Woodson. That’s what builds credibility.

As a college coach you ALWAYS do what’s best for the kid. Always. If you do that consistently the personal success will come. That’s been Calipari’s magic all this time.

No, you do what is right for Indiana University. Calipari is a squid. Never compare IU to UK.
 
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BaxterIU

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It wasn’t the right answer. He should have said he’s going to advise TJD on what’s best for TJD, not what’s best for IU or Mike Woodson. That’s what builds credibility.

As a college coach you ALWAYS do what’s best for the kid. Always. If you do that consistently the personal success will come. That’s been Calipari’s magic all this time.

There you go again, gurgling over Calipari and UK.
You and the rest of the UK fanbase deserve each other.
 
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Aloha Hoosier

Hall of Famer
Aug 30, 2001
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I wasn't crazy about Coach Woodson's answer to Don Fischer about TJD. He stated that he's "begging" TJD to stay in Bloomington another year. I think that sends the wrong message to TJD, and the rest of the team, that one player is so important that a coach has to beg for him to stay. I doubt he's begging any players in the portal to stay. And so much for the Norman Dale approach! I'd have been much happier if the extent of his remarks was closer to "as an NBA coach, I know I can help Trayce in his desire to become an NBA player. I will recommend that he stay so I can put him in a much stronger position to attract NBA interest. But the decision is his to make. I'd like him to stay - it would be good for him, and frankly good for our team as well. But if he wants to leave, I will wish him well."

I'll admit that I wasn't thrilled about the choice of Woodson for our head coach. On the other hand, I thought that Archie was a great choice and I was certainly wrong about that. I look forward to CMW proving me wrong again!
I think it's a great idea to parse every word before Woodie coaches his first game. :rolleyes: I saw the interview and I liked the coach's presence and passion for IU basketball. I took the comment more as saying he'd make TJD better and an NBA player if he came back to IU. We'll see if TJD agrees with that and I hope he does.