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Baylor's Back (link)

travlinhoosier

All-Big Ten
Sep 11, 2004
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There's a new lawsuit about some really evil stuff.

"Sex was part of Baylor recruiting efforts, the suit alleges: Players escorted underage recruits to strip clubs, and coaching staff "arranged for women to have sex with recruits on their official campus visits." A "hostess" program was unofficially used to promise sex to new recruits."

and

"Upon information and belief, prior to Plaintiff's arrival at Baylor, members of the Baylor football team had already developed a system of hazing their freshman recruits by having them bring or invite freshman females to house parties hosted by members of the football team. At these parties, the girls would be drugged and gang raped, or in the words of the football players, 'trains' would be run on the girls."

"The gang rapes were considered a 'bonding' experience for the football players.

From Wikipedia: "Baylor University (BU) is a private Baptist university in Waco, Texas."

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...ign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20170517
 
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There's a new lawsuit about some really evil stuff.

"Sex was part of Baylor recruiting efforts, the suit alleges: Players escorted underage recruits to strip clubs, and coaching staff "arranged for women to have sex with recruits on their official campus visits." A "hostess" program was unofficially used to promise sex to new recruits."

and

"Upon information and belief, prior to Plaintiff's arrival at Baylor, members of the Baylor football team had already developed a system of hazing their freshman recruits by having them bring or invite freshman females to house parties hosted by members of the football team. At these parties, the girls would be drugged and gang raped, or in the words of the football players, 'trains' would be run on the girls."

"The gang rapes were considered a 'bonding' experience for the football players.

From Wikipedia: "Baylor University (BU) is a private Baptist university in Waco, Texas."

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...ign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20170517
This has just gotten to the point where someone (the NCAA) needs to step in and restore order. The program has been completely out of control for some time. I can't imagine the NCAA giving them the death penalty, because I don't think that they have the stones to do it, though. I can't imagine Baylor doing anything themselves to truly address the issue.
 
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This has just gotten to the point where someone (the NCAA) needs to step in and restore order. The program has been completely out of control for some time. I can't imagine the NCAA giving them the death penalty, because I don't think that they have the stones to do it, though. I can't imagine Baylor doing anything themselves to truly address the issue.
Exactly. The culture down there is completely warped. They still have a significant chunk of fans who think Art Briles is a victim.
 
This has just gotten to the point where someone (the NCAA) needs to step in and restore order. The program has been completely out of control for some time. I can't imagine the NCAA giving them the death penalty, because I don't think that they have the stones to do it, though. I can't imagine Baylor doing anything themselves to truly address the issue.
The President, AD, Coach and entire staff got chased out of town after a BU commissioned investigation of the program. Sounds like they are trying to address their issues.
 
The President, AD, Coach and entire staff got chased out of town after a BU commissioned investigation of the program. Sounds like they are trying to address their issues.
That's fair, but, given that it was an investigation commissioned by the institution that allowed this to continue, despite long-time rumors of this behavior, I'm not sure that I trust them to making the meaningful cultural changes necessary.

I really hope Matt Rhule knew what he was getting into there.
 
This has just gotten to the point where someone (the NCAA) needs to step in and restore order. The program has been completely out of control for some time. I can't imagine the NCAA giving them the death penalty, because I don't think that they have the stones to do it, though. I can't imagine Baylor doing anything themselves to truly address the issue.
Idk, when I read that post - the first thing I think of there is a hell of alot of people that need to go to prison. heck with what the NCAA does. I mean, they obviously need to do something, but that's not my worry. They are drugging and gang raping these girls, and it's a system-wide program? If this indeed is all true, ANYONE with knowledge of it and did nothing, needs to go to prison. Some for longer terms than others, obviously.
 
What good does it do to hammer all of the players and coaches and administrators who had nothing to do with the bad stuff, since they're all gone?
I hear this argument all of the time with NCAA penalties, and I'm not sure that I agree with it. At some point, whether it is Baylor, UNC, or anyone else, you have to penalize the program itself for past transgressions. The time that it takes to conduct a through investigation of issues of this magnitude, particularly if the school is less than fully cooperative, will dictate that may of the guilty parties have moved on. At some point, the university and the program have to pay the price, even if it is unfair to those currently there. Typically those individuals have at least some level of knowledge of accusations and ongoing investigations of the program. There is an element of "buyer beware" at play.

Obviously, the issues at Baylor go far beyond those at UNC and most everywhere else. There needs to be criminal investigations of the involved parties at Baylor and prosecution, if warranted. I just think that, at some point, the program has to pay some sort of penalty, regardless of who it hurts.
 
I hear this argument all of the time with NCAA penalties, and I'm not sure that I agree with it. At some point, whether it is Baylor, UNC, or anyone else, you have to penalize the program itself for past transgressions. The time that it takes to conduct a through investigation of issues of this magnitude, particularly if the school is less than fully cooperative, will dictate that may of the guilty parties have moved on. At some point, the university and the program have to pay the price, even if it is unfair to those currently there. Typically those individuals have at least some level of knowledge of accusations and ongoing investigations of the program. There is an element of "buyer beware" at play.

Obviously, the issues at Baylor go far beyond those at UNC and most everywhere else. There needs to be criminal investigations of the involved parties at Baylor and prosecution, if warranted. I just think that, at some point, the program has to pay some sort of penalty, regardless of who it hurts.
Hear what you're saying, but punishing players and coaches who didn't do anything wrong never seems to make sense or provide a deterrent. If you want to punish universities, fine them, punish coaches, ban them and sue them for their pay, agents, sue them for damages. That's how you'll stop cheats.
 
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Hear what you're saying, but punishing players and coaches who didn't do anything wrong never seems to make sense or provide a deterrent. If you want to punish universities, fine them, punish coaches, ban them and sue them for their pay, agents, sue them for damages. That's how you'll stop cheats.
I think that banning of coaches and administrators is certainly a start. As part of my thoughts behind penalizing programs, I'm not necessarily opposed to allowing existing players to transfer out without penalty. I just think that, you have to give an institutional hit to some of these transgressing programs, if you are truly going to deter the behavior, both at the offending schools, as well as other schools in the future. If you only penalize coaches or administrators at fault, it doesn't provide necessary motivation to the institutions themselves to take meaningful action to prevent these scandals.

You are right though. It doesn't feel right to potentially penalize guys like Kennedy Meeks or Joel Berry at UNC for actions of guys like Rashad McCants. It's not fair to those players. That said, how do you punish a school like UNC, for example, who was at least somewhat complicit institutionally with the issues that are at play, without punishing current players? Given the scope of what has gone on at Baylor and say a guy like Shawn Oakman, who is long gone, what do you do there? Obviously, Briles should be banned for at least some period of time, but shouldn't the institution itself receive some sort of punishment for what happened within a representative program of the university? If you don't punish the university, what is there that prevents UNC from turning a blind eye to future academic misconduct if they know that, by slow playing the investigation and firing coaches and administrators, the program will ultimately not pay any sort of price?

There's certainly not an easy solution, because, again as you mentioned, there are issues of fairness at play for a lot of people.
 
You can argue that players are foolish if they go to a school with NCAA penalties hanging over its head and if kids learn that, it will become one way to penalize the university. But zeroing out a few years' wins in a major sport or two punishes a school like UNC more and appropriately. That would be a start for Baylor. But some people need to go to jail too. I don't know whether any have but I hope so.
 
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The sad thing is that more schools have this behavior going on than we know. When I was coaching and going to national clinics I remember seeing the girls assigned to players at the different host schools and wonder what all was expected from these girls. I don't think any schoo should have women individually involved in players being recruited. Just look at the scandal Louiville had with its basketball players and escorts. Baylor was the worst, I hope, but not the only one and it needs to be cleaned up.
 
The sad thing is that more schools have this behavior going on than we know. When I was coaching and going to national clinics I remember seeing the girls assigned to players at the different host schools and wonder what all was expected from these girls. I don't think any schoo should have women individually involved in players being recruited. Just look at the scandal Louiville had with its basketball players and escorts. Baylor was the worst, I hope, but not the only one and it needs to be cleaned up.

And everyone wonders why Baylor came out of nowhere and started suddenly winning?
I hadn't heard anything from Baylor since we beat their ass in the 1991 Copper Bowl....and then out of nowhere they are in the top-10 recently?

They are so "scandalized" by this stuff that they managed to:

A. Hire a good coach. No deterrent there.
B. Hold a #12 class for 2018.
C. Had classes in the top 40 consistently.

Scandals like this don't have any impact nor will they ever. Just like UNC or Penn State, academic, non-academic....if you've had success and your name carries weight, you get kids to come there. Period. Kids don't care about the sideshow.

Look no further than IU basketball. We had the phone calls, it gutted the program for 3 years and then we were ranked #1 the next year.

Today's world ain't about ethics! It's about name recognition, Twitter accounts and bling.
 
There's a new lawsuit about some really evil stuff.

"Sex was part of Baylor recruiting efforts, the suit alleges: Players escorted underage recruits to strip clubs, and coaching staff "arranged for women to have sex with recruits on their official campus visits." A "hostess" program was unofficially used to promise sex to new recruits."

and

"Upon information and belief, prior to Plaintiff's arrival at Baylor, members of the Baylor football team had already developed a system of hazing their freshman recruits by having them bring or invite freshman females to house parties hosted by members of the football team. At these parties, the girls would be drugged and gang raped, or in the words of the football players, 'trains' would be run on the girls."

"The gang rapes were considered a 'bonding' experience for the football players.

From Wikipedia: "Baylor University (BU) is a private Baptist university in Waco, Texas."

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...ign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20170517
If that's true than some people need to go to jail!
 
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Hear what you're saying, but punishing players and coaches who didn't do anything wrong never seems to make sense or provide a deterrent. If you want to punish universities, fine them, punish coaches, ban them and sue them for their pay, agents, sue them for damages. That's how you'll stop cheats.

Just allow the current players to transfer without having to sit out a year. Problem solved w.r.t. any non involved players. Also serves as an additional penalty against the school.
 
Just allow the current players to transfer without having to sit out a year. Problem solved w.r.t. any non involved players. Also serves as an additional penalty against the school.
Uprooting players in hopes they can find spot somewhere else is hardly a "problem solved" solution. For many, it would be unpractical, at best, and it would definitely serve as a punishment to those who had absolutely nothing to do with the situation. Why people believe and advocate punishing the innocent is really strange.
 
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