Bannning Tik Tok

UncleMark

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So it appears that Trumps thinks he can "ban" Tik Tok with the stroke of a pen.

The policy merits aside, I'm having my doubts as to the practical implications. How does one "ban" an online application, especially if the host servers are located outside the country, short of intervening at the DNS level?

@Marvin the Martian
@Hank Reardon
 

TDHoosier

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I'm not sure the answer to your question but in speaking to an IT guy from a Global Energy firm yesterday he told me to delete Tik Tok prior to Trumps statement.

Before everyone says it is political, this guy I'm about 90% sure would not be voting for Trump based on other statements.
 

UncleMark

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I'm not sure the answer to your question but in speaking to an IT guy from a Global Energy firm yesterday he told me to delete Tik Tok prior to Trumps statement.
There's no question in my mind that Tik Tok is an infection vector/Trojan horse. But that makes it no different than Facebook or Twitter, IMO. Or Windows and Google, for that matter.

Reminds me of the unfounded hysteria over Kaspersky AV.
 

Marvin the Martian

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So it appears that Trumps thinks he can "ban" Tik Tok with the stroke of a pen.

The policy merits aside, I'm having my doubts as to the practical implications. How does one "ban" an online application, especially if the host servers are located outside the country, short of intervening at the DNS level?

@Marvin the Martian
@Hank Reardon
Short of the DNS level I do not see how it can be blocked.

The app is a problem, and I can see the government pressuring to keep it out of the i and Play stores. I don't know how the government does more than that. I also do not know why Microsoft buying and moving to US servers would not be satisfactory.

I once had to work at trying to get things through the Great Firewall of China. It takes a while for their firewall to catch up, so it is possible. Tik Tok will be similar, I imagine new servers and forwarding will get through until the government catches on. It will be cat and mouse.

Did you see the Twitter hack was a 17 year old? I say that to suggest the mouse always wins.
 

Cream&Crimson

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I think getting it removed from the stores is what they would be looking at.

That said, I don't know that Apple or Google would necessarily comply if the govt. couldn't make a legit case why the app poses a threat. It obviously would require more than that Trump doesn't like the Chinese.
 

UncleMark

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Looks like ByteDance has caved:

ByteDance reportedly reaches deal to sell TikTok American operations

https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/1/21350687/trump-tiktok-order-ban-us-app

TikTok parent company ByteDance has reportedly agreed to sell its American operations to prevent the Trump administration from banning it in the US, according to Reuters.

It was not clear Saturday how the deal would involve Microsoft, or whether it would stave off a ban, but Reuters reported that Microsoft would be in charge of protecting US user data, and that the plan would allow another American company to take over TikTok in the US.​

To me that reads that MSFT would end up hosting -- thereby bringing the contents under US control -- while leaving open the possibility that some other US entity would actually acquire the company.
 

Courtsensetwo

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Leave it alone for a week and it will die a painful death on it's own. Twelve year olds have short attention spans.
 

Sope Creek

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I'm not sure the answer to your question but in speaking to an IT guy from a Global Energy firm yesterday he told me to delete Tik Tok prior to Trumps statement.

Before everyone says it is political, this guy I'm about 90% sure would not be voting for Trump based on other statements.
I heard the news about Trump banning Tik-Tok from NPR this morning when my alarm went off . . . and while lying there, I knew that someone would try to make the case that there was good reason for the ban. I don't necessarily disagree, but clearly Trump has had so many instances where he's reacted to so many parties with distemper that any "legitimate" action he might take can - and should - be viewed from the perspective that his action is personally motivated . . . that's personally motivated, not politically motivated. Whether that's his real motivation or not, it's fair game, solely because Trump's prior actions from personal motivations have been so rampant. The man has no discipline . . .

. . . he's got to go.
 

i'vegotwinners

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don't know what Tic Tock is.

regardless, if it looks like a long term competitor for someone with access to capital, whomever it competes with will end up owning it.
 

Courtsensetwo

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I heard the news about Trump banning Tik-Tok from NPR this morning when my alarm went off . . . and while lying there, I knew that someone would try to make the case that there was good reason for the ban. I don't necessarily disagree, but clearly Trump has had so many instances where he's reacted to so many parties with distemper that any "legitimate" action he might take can - and should - be viewed from the perspective that his action is personally motivated . . . that's personally motivated, not politically motivated. Whether that's his real motivation or not, it's fair game, solely because Trump's prior actions from personal motivations have been so rampant. The man has no discipline . . .

. . . he's got to go.
He is already gone.

It would be great to see some discussion about the challenges Biden will face, who he will surround himself with and what steps should be taken in a multitude of areas.

Unfortunately, there is little appetite for that here in the sandbox.
 
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UncleMark

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He is already gone.

It would be great to see some discussion about the challenges Biden will face, who he will surround himself with and what steps should be taken in a multitude of areas.

Unfortunately, there is little appetite for that here in the sandbox.
I'm game. Start a thread. Name some areas of concern. Put up some names and positions. Back it up with some reasoning.

This forum actually can produce some good discussion when it's not trolled or yabbuted or COH'd to death.
 
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Courtsensetwo

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I'm game. Start a thread. Name some areas of concern. Put up some names and positions. Back it up with some reasoning.

This forum actually can produce some good discussion when it's not trolled or yabbuted or COH'd to death.
I have gone down that road multiple times. The result each time being "well trump yadda yaddayadda"

If by "good discussion" you mean the old guard patting each other on the back for how well they trashed Trump or anyone to the right of Biden, then I agree.
 

Courtsensetwo

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You mean the country that gives his daughter patents? The country that Trump sent our ventilator stockpile to and never restocked?

Or was it because a bunch of suburban moms and K-pop stans made him and his campaign look like fools?
yabbut yabutt
 

i'vegotwinners

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I'm game. Start a thread. Name some areas of concern. Put up some names and positions. Back it up with some reasoning.

This forum actually can produce some good discussion when it's not trolled or yabbuted or COH'd to death.
you're game till the moment things go anywhere but parallel to what's in the best interests of the DNC's controlling moneyed interests.

at which point you will be among the first to try and quash it.

and any discussions as to what's in the citizenry's best interests, would quickly do so.

as to Biden, do you think he's calling his own shots?

or making his own VP pick?

Biden is the puppet, not the one pulling the strings.
 

i'vegotwinners

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I have gone down that road multiple times. The result each time being "well trump yadda yaddayadda"

If by "good discussion" you mean the old guard patting each other on the back for how well they trashed Trump or anyone to the right of Biden, then I agree.
Trump is only right of Biden on social issues.
 

i'vegotwinners

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A Trump/Biden comparison was not a part of my comments but...OK
just clarifying for those whom you referred to, thinking Biden was/is left of Trump, as other than socially, he isn't.

and no, Trump isn't left either.

pet peeve of mine.

left or right socially has literally zero to do with left or right economically, yet literally everyone here, elsewhere, and on the media, acts as though they are synonymous, and steadfastly refuse to even acknowledge the distinction.

thus whenever someone refers to left or right, it's totally disingenuous and/or meaningless, absent a distinction as to whether they are referring to socially or economically.
 

TommyCracker

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just clarifying for those whom you referred to, thinking Biden was/is left of Trump, as other than socially, he isn't.

and no, Trump isn't left either.

pet peeve of mine.

left or right socially has literally zero to do with left or right economically, yet literally everyone here, elsewhere, and on the media, acts as though they are synonymous, and steadfastly refuse to even acknowledge the distinction.

thus whenever someone refers to left or right, it's totally disingenuous and/or meaningless, absent a distinction as to whether they are referring to socially or economically.
It's easier to talk left and right as a spectrum but yeah, it's not that simple.

There's some talk of a political compass, or that there are many axises than just and x.

You can be conservative on police reform but liberal on Healthcare so where does that put that person?

It's not so simple.

For example, here's one that tries to account for most but it still falls short.

https://images.app.goo.gl/dk2TZ1qZ1wz28S5TA

 
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Courtsensetwo

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just clarifying for those whom you referred to, thinking Biden was/is left of Trump, as other than socially, he isn't.

and no, Trump isn't left either.

pet peeve of mine.

left or right socially has literally zero to do with left or right economically, yet literally everyone here, elsewhere, and on the media, acts as though they are synonymous, and steadfastly refuse to even acknowledge the distinction.

thus whenever someone refers to left or right, it's totally disingenuous and/or meaningless, absent a distinction as to whether they are referring to socially or economically.
I do agree and I think most people understand this. I have traditionally found myself more liberal socially than fiscally.
 

Sope Creek

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He is already gone.

It would be great to see some discussion about the challenges Biden will face, who he will surround himself with and what steps should be taken in a multitude of areas.

Unfortunately, there is little appetite for that here in the sandbox.
Trump is not already gone. He's still issuing executive orders and trying to persuade Americans of things that are objectively and demonstrably bad for them - such as hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for COVID-19.

I can understand why a former Trump supporter would like to look past him, but the fact is, we still have work to do to get the man out of the White House. Until he is gone, there's little room to discuss much else. Job #1 is get him out of office, preferably by a sound popular vote defeat and Electoral College landslide, retention of the House of Representatives in Democratic hands, plus returning the Senate majority to the Democrats.
 

Sope Creek

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I'm game. Start a thread. Name some areas of concern. Put up some names and positions. Back it up with some reasoning.

This forum actually can produce some good discussion when it's not trolled or yabbuted or COH'd to death.
Redundancy, thy name is UncleMark.
 
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Courtsensetwo

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Trump is not already gone. He's still issuing executive orders and trying to persuade Americans of things that are objectively and demonstrably bad for them - such as hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for COVID-19.

I can understand why a former Trump supporter would like to look past him, but the fact is, we still have work to do to get the man out of the White House. Until he is gone, there's little room to discuss much else. Job #1 is get him out of office, preferably by a sound popular vote defeat and Electoral College landslide, retention of the House of Representatives in Democratic hands, plus returning the Senate majority to the Democrats.
1. No, this race is long over.

2. There is plenty of room to discuss the future, sadly, just little appetite among this generally one-trick pony group. I learned that months ago.

3. I am rarely a fan of one party controlling the house and senate...as we need some balance but I am well aware that tribal hyper-partisans always do.

Oh...and I do hope you were not referring to m when you say "former Trump supporter" as you should know better.
 

UncleMark

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3. I am rarely a fan of one party controlling the house and senate...as we need some balance but I am well aware that tribal hyper-partisans always do.
I would normally view this as a reasonable take on things, but not this time around. The Republican Party and the country as a whole needs to have Trumpism purged in the most aggressive, consequential, and unquestionable terms. If the Trump enablers are able to hold power in the Senate, then their acquiescence and fealty will have gone unpunished. This can't happen. Trumpism and Trumpists must be driven out and never again be in a position to play a part in the governance of the republic. There will be time for the sane, sensible members to reconstitute what used to be the GOP of Ike, GHWB, Reagan, even Nixon and reclaim a seat at the table.
 

TommyCracker

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I would normally view this as a reasonable take on things, but not this time around. The Republican Party and the country as a whole needs to have Trumpism purged in the most aggressive, consequential, and unquestionable terms. If the Trump enablers are able to hold power in the Senate, then their acquiescence and fealty will have gone unpunished. This can't happen. Trumpism and Trumpists must be driven out and never again be in a position to play a part in the governance of the republic. There will be time for the sane, sensible members to reconstitute what used to be the GOP of Ike, GHWB, Reagan, even Nixon and reclaim a seat at the table.
Very well said.

I've always favored a democratic president and a republican congress.

I want my president to be cool and calm, empathetic and a progressive, intelligent thinker as they are the face of the country to the world and they set the mood of the country by their temperament.

I want my laws to be capitalism friendly so I side republican there. Plus I like having a balance of power just in case the executive branch gets a power hungry nut job.

I want my Supreme Court to be progressive thinking.

Thst being said, we have to eradicate 'Trumpism' and those that were too weak to keep him under control.

Thank God we have a democratic house because the republican senate has proven to yellow belly cowards to a wannabe authoritarian.

They need to be held accountable for their cowardly political decisions.

It's why Romney will be rewarded for standing up to the big baby while Susan Collins will hopefully be punished.
 
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Courtsensetwo

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I would normally view this as a reasonable take on things, but not this time around. The Republican Party and the country as a whole needs to have Trumpism purged in the most aggressive, consequential, and unquestionable terms. If the Trump enablers are able to hold power in the Senate, then their acquiescence and fealty will have gone unpunished. This can't happen. Trumpism and Trumpists must be driven out and never again be in a position to play a part in the governance of the republic. There will be time for the sane, sensible members to reconstitute what used to be the GOP of Ike, GHWB, Reagan, even Nixon and reclaim a seat at the table.
Perhaps retaining the Senate post-trump will allow the GOP to heal faster and create a reasonable functional party. Make no mistake...my despising trump and what the GOP has become does not mean I am a fan of PelosiShumer and the rest of the Dem hypocrites. I want balance now as much as ever.

Actually what I want is a third party, but that is way too much for this crowd.
 

Courtsensetwo

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Very well said.

I've always favored a democratic president and a republican congress.

I want my president to be cool and calm, empathetic and a progressive, intelligent thinker as they are the face of the country to the world and they set the mood of the country by their temperament.

I want my laws to be capitalism friendly so I side republican there. Plus I like having a balance of power just in case the executive branch gets a power hungry nut job.

I want my Supreme Court to be progressive thinking.

Thst being said, we have to eradicate 'Trumpism' and those that were too weak to keep him under control.

Thank God we have a democratic house because the republican senate has proven to yellow belly cowards to a wannabe authoritarian.

They need to be held accountable for their cowardly political decisions.

It's why Romney will be rewarded for standing up to the big baby while Susan Collins will hopefully be punished.
Trumpism will be eradicated within a week even with a Pub Senate.

I agree we need balance, the Dems are no bed of roses.

If by the SCOTUS being "progressive Thinking" you mean legislating from the bench...I will never buy that.
 

TommyCracker

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Trumpism will be eradicated within a week even with a Pub Senate.

I agree we need balance, the Dems are no bed of roses.

If by the SCOTUS being "progressive Thinking" you mean legislating from the bench...I will never buy that.
There's a strange vibe that moderate Republicans feel that Biden owes them something.

Trump and Trumpism is on you. You let him be the face of the republican party and then coward when he started Trumping the party.

Trump is the Joker that the mafia hired to kill the Batman. Republicans need to be punished for their stupidity and need new leaders to take control of the party.

As far as the courts, conservative thinking in nature is trying to hold on to old values and resist change as much as they can. The only way to move forward from a human rights standard (which is the biggest area that the SC shapes) is with progressive thinking.

Hell if my grandpa represented the SC we'd still be in the 1920's.
 

i'vegotwinners

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Very well said.

I've always favored a democratic president and a republican congress.

I want my president to be cool and calm, empathetic and a progressive, intelligent thinker as they are the face of the country to the world and they set the mood of the country by their temperament.

I want my laws to be capitalism friendly so I side republican there. Plus I like having a balance of power just in case the executive branch gets a power hungry nut job.

I want my Supreme Court to be progressive thinking.

Thst being said, we have to eradicate 'Trumpism' and those that were too weak to keep him under control.

Thank God we have a democratic house because the republican senate has proven to yellow belly cowards to a wannabe authoritarian.

They need to be held accountable for their cowardly political decisions.

It's why Romney will be rewarded for standing up to the big baby while Susan Collins will hopefully be punished.

we have one party rule now, and have had since the 80s.

and they absolutely do get a lot done.

notice the govt aided exporting of our manufacture base to China, Mexico, and elsewhere, and how quickly and smoothly that got done by the one party.

notice the decimating of bank regulations, and how quickly the one party channeled trillions to the banks during the bailout and since, totally bypassing the real economy then and since with trillions in fed money that only circulates in "the market", and never touches the working class, thus has zero velocity.

notice how the one party got trillions to the big banks and corps in an instant, long before Joe Worker ever got dollar one in the corona stimulus.

notice how scotus judge nominations by the one party are all pro corp big govt, anti consumer, anti citizen rights, despite their differing views on abortion or minority rights.

notice how the one party backs endless war and endless military complex spending.

notice how the one party kills real healthcare or pharma reform, despite overwhelming need and backing by the citizenry.

notice how even today with the US literally being totally at China's mercy, the one party has absolutely zero intent of repatriating even pharmaceutical or medical supply manufacture, let alone telecom or or other manufacturing.

notice how incredibly efficiently the one party serves their corporate owners every whim.

we have two parties, like Facebook and Instagram are competing entities.

as for "capitalism friendly", i'm not sure that means what you and others think it means.

at least not in scope.

at least to the one party.
 
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Courtsensetwo

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There's a strange vibe that moderate Republicans feel that Biden owes them something.

Trump and Trumpism is on you. You let him be the face of the republican party and then coward when he started Trumping the party.

Trump is the Joker that the mafia hired to kill the Batman. Republicans need to be punished for their stupidity and need new leaders to take control of the party.

As far as the courts, conservative thinking in nature is trying to hold on to old values and resist change as much as they can. The only way to move forward from a human rights standard (which is the biggest area that the SC shapes) is with progressive thinking.

Hell if my grandpa represented the SC we'd still be in the 1920's.
How in God's name is Trump and Trumpism on me?

Can't wait to hear this explanation.
 

Courtsensetwo

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we have one party rule now, and have had since the 80s.

and they absolutely do get a lot done.

notice the govt aided exporting of our manufacture base to China, Mexico, and elsewhere, and how quickly and smoothly that got done.

notice the decimating of bank regulations, and how quickly the one party channeled trillions to the banks during the bailout and since, totally bypassing the real economy then and since with trillions in fed money that only circulates in "the market", and never touches the working class, thus has zero velocity.

notice how the one party got trillions to the big banks and corps in an instant, long before Joe Worker ever got dollar one in the corona stimulus.

notice how scotus judge nominations by the one party are all pro corp big govt, anti consumer, anti citizen rights, despite their differing views on abortion or minority rights.

notice how the one party backs endless war and endless military complex spending.

notice how the one party kills real healthcare or pharma reform, despite overwhelming need and backing by the citizenry.

notice how even today with the US literally being totally at China's mercy, the one party has absolutely zero intent of repatriating even pharmaceutical or medical supply manufacture, let alone telecom or or other manufacturing.

notice how incredibly efficiently the one party serves their corporate owners every whim.

we have two parties, like Facebook and Instagram are competing entities.

as for "capitalism friendly", i'm not sure that means what you and others think it means.

at least not in scope.

at least to the one party.
The two parties we have suck out loud.

Neither speaks for me and that has been a frustration for twenty years.
 

i'vegotwinners

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The two parties we have suck out loud.

Neither speaks for me and that has been a frustration for twenty years.

because it isn't "two parties".

it's one party with two divisions.

the frustrations won't end till people grasp it's all one party, who owns it, who it serves, and that it can't serve both it's owners' best interests and the citizenry, at least not short term, and short term is all it's owners want served..
 
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Spartans9312

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Short of the DNS level I do not see how it can be blocked.

The app is a problem, and I can see the government pressuring to keep it out of the i and Play stores. I don't know how the government does more than that. I also do not know why Microsoft buying and moving to US servers would not be satisfactory.

I once had to work at trying to get things through the Great Firewall of China. It takes a while for their firewall to catch up, so it is possible. Tik Tok will be similar, I imagine new servers and forwarding will get through until the government catches on. It will be cat and mouse.

Did you see the Twitter hack was a 17 year old? I say that to suggest the mouse always wins.
NYT tech writer Kara Swisher thinks that Trump "is directionally correct in his effort to thwart China's ambitions to establish Internet hegemony."
But, there's a big flaw in plans to either ban TikTok or force a bad deal.
That's not even considering Trump's meddling in private business and speech.
 

UncleMark

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Trump is now going for the shakedown. This is truly gangster behavior.

Trump says U.S. treasury should collect ‘very substantial’ portion of TikTok sale to American firm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/08/03/trump-microsoft-tiktok-treasury/

President Trump on Monday suggested that the U.S. Treasury should collect a portion of the potential sale of the social media company TikTok, although it was unclear under what authority the White House could demand such a payment.

Speaking to reporters at the White House, Trump reiterated that he wants TikTok to be forced to cease operations in the United States by around Sept. 15 if it is not sold to Microsoft or another U.S.-based company. If that sale goes through, the president said, part of the proceeds should be paid to U.S. taxpayers as compensation for operating in America.

“A very substantial portion of that price is going to have to come into the treasury of the United States,” Trump said of the potential TikTok sale. “The United States should be reimbursed or paid because without the United States they don’t have anything.” The president added: “It’s a little bit like the landlord-tenant. Without a lease, the tenant has nothing. So they pay what’s called key money or they pay something.”​
 

Spartans9312

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Trump is now going for the shakedown. This is truly gangster behavior.

Trump says U.S. treasury should collect ‘very substantial’ portion of TikTok sale to American firm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/08/03/trump-microsoft-tiktok-treasury/

President Trump on Monday suggested that the U.S. Treasury should collect a portion of the potential sale of the social media company TikTok, although it was unclear under what authority the White House could demand such a payment.

Speaking to reporters at the White House, Trump reiterated that he wants TikTok to be forced to cease operations in the United States by around Sept. 15 if it is not sold to Microsoft or another U.S.-based company. If that sale goes through, the president said, part of the proceeds should be paid to U.S. taxpayers as compensation for operating in America.

“A very substantial portion of that price is going to have to come into the treasury of the United States,” Trump said of the potential TikTok sale. “The United States should be reimbursed or paid because without the United States they don’t have anything.” The president added: “It’s a little bit like the landlord-tenant. Without a lease, the tenant has nothing. So they pay what’s called key money or they pay something.”​
Idiot
 

Noodle

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I think getting it removed from the stores is what they would be looking at.

That said, I don't know that Apple or Google would necessarily comply if the govt. couldn't make a legit case why the app poses a threat. It obviously would require more than that Trump doesn't like the Chinese.
That would put Apple and Google between a rock and a hard place. I don’t think they would roll over to Trump unless the fire got really hot.
 

Noodle

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Trump is now going for the shakedown. This is truly gangster behavior.

Trump says U.S. treasury should collect ‘very substantial’ portion of TikTok sale to American firm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/08/03/trump-microsoft-tiktok-treasury/

President Trump on Monday suggested that the U.S. Treasury should collect a portion of the potential sale of the social media company TikTok, although it was unclear under what authority the White House could demand such a payment.

Speaking to reporters at the White House, Trump reiterated that he wants TikTok to be forced to cease operations in the United States by around Sept. 15 if it is not sold to Microsoft or another U.S.-based company. If that sale goes through, the president said, part of the proceeds should be paid to U.S. taxpayers as compensation for operating in America.

“A very substantial portion of that price is going to have to come into the treasury of the United States,” Trump said of the potential TikTok sale. “The United States should be reimbursed or paid because without the United States they don’t have anything.” The president added: “It’s a little bit like the landlord-tenant. Without a lease, the tenant has nothing. So they pay what’s called key money or they pay something.”​
Truly astounding and utterly bizarre. The man is a buffoon.
 
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