B1G Refs: Time for a change?

[Eurocyldon]

For years I've believed the refs had little to do with the B1G under-performing in the tournament. And I do not recall the coaches or ADs ever pointing to it as a concern. Yet, it is inevitably noted by fans when the conference tanks in the post season. That and the fact playing on the road in conference is many times comical with the foul disparity.

Are the refs a real concern? If so, should those at the top be questioned about it? Maybe they make a decision to try something new in regard to how the games are called. Move away from the plodding, physical play that has produced no champions in decades. Make it more attractive to recruits with a more free flowing style?

With the new teams on there way soon, does it make sense to change now?

Some other questions: Are fans of the B1G assuming it is the only physically tough conference? What proof is there that the current setup is working?

I ask because I've always taken pride in the conference being tough. But the results speak for themselves and i have to question whether the conf is doing itself a disservice.

 

[IUNorth]

For years I've believed the refs had little to do with the B1G under-performing in the tournament. And I do not recall the coaches or ADs ever pointing to it as a concern. Yet, it is inevitably noted by fans when the conference tanks in the post season. That and the fact playing on the road in conference is many times comical with the foul disparity.

Are the refs a real concern? If so, should those at the top be questioned about it? Maybe they make a decision to try something new in regard to how the games are called. Move away from the plodding, physical play that has produced no champions in decades. Make it more attractive to recruits with a more free flowing style?

With the new teams on there way soon, does it make sense to change now?

Some other questions: Are fans of the B1G assuming it is the only physically tough conference? What proof is there that the current setup is working?

I ask because I've always taken pride in the conference being tough. But the results speak for themselves and i have to question whether the conf is doing itself a disservice.

This past year is the first, that I can remember, where basketball pundits actually started commenting on it. I think it was Bilas that mentioned something about the B10 style of play, and how the officials were playing a role.

We know that its being used now in recruiting, against us and other B10 schools.

I can't really make it make sense that the B10 officials would have any different philosophy or points of emphasis, than other college conferences? But the games in the B10 do seem more physical, overall. And something is causing B10 teams to underperform in the NCAAs.

 

[Bucket Getter]

Don’t most (if not all) of the B1G refs work other conferences too? I think it’s probably too simplistic to place most of the blame on the refs. I’d personally put more of the blame on the way the coaches coach. Purdue, MSU, Osu, Wisconsin, Rutgers, PSU, and others play a slugfest style that is the opposite of what’s been successful in the dance.

 

[IUNorth]

Don’t most (if not all) of the B1G refs work other conferences too? I think it’s probably too simplistic to place most of the blame on the refs. I’d personally put more of the blame on the way the coaches coach. Purdue, MSU, Osu, Wisconsin, Rutgers, PSU, and others play a slugfest style that is the opposite of what’s been successful in the dance.

I wouldn't say its the opposite. Houston and San Diego State are examples of teams that play a similar style, that have had success in recent years. Baylor was very physical with their "no reversal" defense.

And we're not too far removed from that being one of the most successful styles in the tourney. Izzo, went to numerous final fours. Stephens played glorified football in his 2 runs. Pitino's teams were very physical. Villanova is very "Big 10" ish.

I also have a hard time equating the officiating to NCAA tourney problems. But something sure is holding the conference back in the last few years.

 

[.Gerdis]

Don’t most (if not all) of the B1G refs work other conferences too? I think it’s probably too simplistic to place most of the blame on the refs. I’d personally put more of the blame on the way the coaches coach. Purdue, MSU, Osu, Wisconsin, Rutgers, PSU, and others play a slugfest style that is the opposite of what’s been successful in the dance.

It’s not just how they coach, it’s how they construct their rosters, and an overall philosophy.

And to have success, the other coaches need to counter it, and it affects how everyone recruits, and the philosophy they have. As an example, look at Rutgers, and how they have built that program to compete with MSU, etc.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

I also have a hard time equating the officiating to NCAA tourney problems. But something sure is holding the conference back in the last few years.

maybe the conf just wasn't that good to begin with?
I mean, the only team in the B1G last year that stayed consistently in the top 10 got bounced in the first round by a team that belonged in the NIT.
The conference's showing this this past year's tourney was very bad, and it seems to be the norm vs the exception in recent years.
Yeah something isn't working.

As for refs, go look at the IU/NW and PU/NW games (which were consecutive home games in Evanston for NW if I remember correctly). Not sure who got homered harder, PU or IU. I do know there have been a lot of complaints about that little luigi ref that always seems to screw us over.

 

[TomEric4756]

I think Woody will get more respect from refs this season ... He’s no longer a rookie coach …

That said … it’s on the players and the coaches to adjust to how the game is being called … it’s been that way for a long time.

Frank the Tank led Wisconsin to a finals appearance… it can be done.

 

[rocketo]

For years I've believed the refs had little to do with the B1G under-performing in the tournament. And I do not recall the coaches or ADs ever pointing to it as a concern. Yet, it is inevitably noted by fans when the conference tanks in the post season. That and the fact playing on the road in conference is many times comical with the foul disparity.

Are the refs a real concern? If so, should those at the top be questioned about it? Maybe they make a decision to try something new in regard to how the games are called. Move away from the plodding, physical play that has produced no champions in decades. Make it more attractive to recruits with a more free flowing style?

With the new teams on there way soon, does it make sense to change now?

Some other questions: Are fans of the B1G assuming it is the only physically tough conference? What proof is there that the current setup is working?

I ask because I've always taken pride in the conference being tough. But the results speak for themselves and i have to question whether the conf is doing itself a disservice.

True or not, there is at least a perception. And it’s enough to impact recruiting. Just look at the recruiting ratings. Not a lot of B1G teams up at the top. And talent is a big part of winning. Reality is it’s probably a little bit of both, and I am certainly tired of the wrestling matches during conference play.

 

[T.M.P.]

I wouldn't say its the opposite. Houston and San Diego State are examples of teams that play a similar style, that have had success in recent years. Baylor was very physical with their "no reversal" defense.

And we're not too far removed from that being one of the most successful styles in the tourney. Izzo, went to numerous final fours. Stephens played glorified football in his 2 runs. Pitino's teams were very physical. Villanova is very "Big 10" ish.

I also have a hard time equating the officiating to NCAA tourney problems. But something sure is holding the conference back in the last few years.

Lack of quickness at the 1 and 2 positions. Other conferences have smaller better guards in their backcourts and tend to be less physical. Plus, an over emphasis on offensive post play.

 

[wi_hoosier]

Don’t most (if not all) of the B1G refs work other conferences too? I think it’s probably too simplistic to place most of the blame on the refs. I’d personally put more of the blame on the way the coaches coach. Purdue, MSU, Osu, Wisconsin, Rutgers, PSU, and others play a slugfest style that is the opposite of what’s been successful in the dance.

Yes, but it is successful in the conference. Why is that? Would it be successful if the B1G refs didn't allow that type of play?

 

[DCDAVID]

It might be partially talent, because the BT doesn’t land many 5*, but the style of play in the ACC/SEC is undeniably different than the BT and a big part of that is the refs. As an example how many other conferences allow a big man to ram into his defender multiple times to create space? It’s a joke as is the inconsistency of how BT refs call games.
They need to be full time professionals and the BT has the money to make it happen.

 

[IUNorth]

It might be partially talent, because the BT doesn’t land many 5*, but the style of play in the ACC/SEC is undeniably different than the BT and a big part of that is the refs. As an example how many other conferences allow a big man to ram into his defender multiple times to create space? It’s a joke as is the inconsistency of how BT refs call games.
They need to be full time professionals and the BT has the money to make it happen.

If you're referring to Edey...I think he's a very special case. I'm not sure they allow ALL bigs to play how Edey does, and they don't allow defenses to get away with how physical everyone now guards Edey.

I suspect they've probably had meetings to specifically talk about how they're going to officiate his games. They could, and maybe should, call fouls on every single possession. The problem they have is do they call Edey for his offensive fouls? Or the defense for their fouls?

The biggest problem I have with B10 officials is how inconsistent they are in how they call offensive action going to the basket. Overall, I think they allow waaayyy too much contact. But there are times (Guido at NW), where they change it up and call it tightly in some areas.

It could be a chicken or the egg type thing...but I do think it probably has as much or more to do with longer time B10 coaches like Izzo, Painter, Gard...all teaching a very, very physical style of defense. Almost to the point where they're putting pressure on the refs from the tip to have to call a foul on every possession. I think B10 officials have long since given up that battle, and have just allowed this style.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Like many long time IU fans, I am pretty confident in my ability to make a call. I have a pretty good handle on the rules. I sit there and when the whistle blows I usually know what happened and if a call was warranted.

What I don't know is what the ref is about to indicate. They are so so inconsistent.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Lack of quickness at the 1 and 2 positions. Other conferences have smaller better guards in their backcourts and tend to be less physical. Plus, an over emphasis on offensive post play.

This is a big piece of the problem.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

If you watched games outside of our conference(ncaa tournament included) the refs were consistent. It’s the style and guards that are the problem. Not the refs. They missed calls all year.

 

[DCDAVID]

If you're referring to Edey...I think he's a very special case. I'm not sure they allow ALL bigs to play how Edey does, and they don't allow defenses to get away with how physical everyone now guards Edey.

I am definitely not referring only to Edey. The refs allow a number of bigs to get the ball deep in the paint and repeatedly ram into their defender in order to create space. You just don’t see that in other conferences to the degree it happens in the BT.

 

[iubud]

Don’t most (if not all) of the B1G refs work other conferences too? I think it’s probably too simplistic to place most of the blame on the refs. I’d personally put more of the blame on the way the coaches coach. Purdue, MSU, Osu, Wisconsin, Rutgers, PSU, and others play a slugfest style that is the opposite of what’s been successful in the dance.

I agree. Refs aren't specific to a conference. Since my son is a high school ref, he pays attention more to who the refs are. He always points out who they are and where he has seen them. He works at the USI and UE home games and sees a lot of the "B1G" refs in Evansville the night before or after they work a game in Btown, Lexington or other nearby schools.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

Lack of quickness at the 1 and 2 positions. Other conferences have smaller better guards in their backcourts and tend to be less physical. Plus, an over emphasis on offensive post play.

very valid point. Was PU's downfall in the latter half of the season, and Miami tore our backcourt to shreds with superior quickness and ended our season. We could not keep their guards in front of us. The tourney has become all about guard/perimeter play, with solid post/bigs to balance. You need both to win, but without backcourt speed (and shooting), you aren't seeing a F4 regardless of how big your freak center might be.

 

[steelyvan]

I am definitely not referring only to Edey. The refs allow a number of bigs to get the ball deep in the paint and repeatedly ram into their defender in order to create space. You just don’t see that in other conferences to the degree it happens in the BT.

UConn’s big man was really good at creating space without getting whistled. (Sanogo?)