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B1G expansion plans?

You do not understand the Gentlemens' Agreement. It isn't A&M blocking UT. It is A&M and FL and KY and UGA and USC voting together to block UT and FSU and U of L and GT and Clemson.


I'll believe it when I see it.........all of those other schools are blocked anyway by the ACC GoRs througn 2036. 16 is going to be the final # for the SEC. If they have a chance to get Texas, they will, imo.
 
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I'll believe it when I see it.........all of those other schools are blocked anyway by the ACC GoRs througn 2036. 16 is going to be the final # for the SEC. If they have a chance to get Texas, they will, imo.
Not so fast. It is widely believed that the ACC GOR (which hasn't been made public) is contingent upon the successful launch of the ACC Network by ESPN in 2019. Given the prevalence of cord-cutting and the financial failure of the Longhorn Network, the ACCN may have a rough time.

The ACCN will have vastly different demographics than the BTN or SECN. The entire conference has only two state flagships, UVA and UNC. All the rest are little brothers or private schools with small fan bases. They have Notre Dame without football.They don't have one member in the huge population centers from NYC to Wash DC. Four member schools are within one state.

Another issue, UT won't add one square inch to the footprint of the SECN. They already have the state of Texas whereas they'd pick up a ton of TV sets with Virginia (VT) and a North Carolina school.
 
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I have also thought the 4 16-team conferences is a likely eventual alignment. In that scenario, it wouldn't surprise me if Kansas gets the short end of the stick and gets left out of the big 4.

I’ve heard a few times already that everything Kansas does is in preparation for some sort of realignment- they are freeking out over there and every season they fail to improve their football program just increases the pressure on the university.
 
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I’ve heard a few times already that everything Kansas does is in preparation for some sort of realignment- they are freeking out over there and every season they fail to improve their football program just increases the pressure on the university.
They don't know pressure until the FBI opens an office on campus.

They in a heap o' trouble!
 
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I’ve heard a few times already that everything Kansas does is in preparation for some sort of realignment- they are freeking out over there and every season they fail to improve their football program just increases the pressure on the university.
Yes, that is true....

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/blair-kerkhoff/article174914366.html

Also note that the FBI is knocking at the door...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...i-college-basketball-corruption-investigation
 
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Interesting.....so they're putting $350M into their facilities over 3-6 yrs.

Trying to compare that to us.....NEZ project--$50M?, SEZ project-$35M?, volleyball/wrestling--$35M?, softball/baseball--$30M?, Assembly Hall---$45M? So if my #s are close, we've put in about $195M in a similiar time frame?
 
By the time the various conference GOR's begin running out in 2022-23, The networks (FOX, ESPN, etc...) we have today will be secondary players in the game. Google, Facebook and Amazon already have more cash and the gap will only grow. I don't believe they want conference deals, though they may do short-term deals at first. I suspect they will soon afterward go directly to the individual schools. The rich will get richer and the devil take the hindmost.
 
The biggest factor for all parties involved with any conference expansion lies with the Assignment of Rights. If I read the article correctly, the Big 12 has the AoR which ends the soonest, and the SEC is the only major conference without one.

If the B1G grabs Oklahoma and Texas, the Big 12 is dead unless they add a lot of CUSA and AAC teams. No one is going to touch anyone from the B1G or the ACC due to $$$ (B1G) and AoR (ACC). PAC 12 is not getting nearly the media $$ they expected out of their TV network but they are basically a regional conference. I don't see a conference plucking anyone from them.

The B1G adding OU and UT renews the OU/Nebraska rivalry. UT's biggest rival was always Texas A&M. Would A&M leave the SEC to : 1) renew the rivalry with UT, 2) make more $$ with BTN, 3) face no AoR penalty, 4) stop getting their arse kicked by Alabama annually? I say the possibility is greater than anyone may think.

If A&M leaves the SEC, does Missouri follow? They get natural rivalries with Illinois and Iowa. Would Arkansas follow suit to quit getting beat up by the SEC, make more money, establish a rivalry with Mizzou and rekindle old SWC (pre-Big 12) rivalries with UT and A&M.

If the SEC starts losing teams, does South Carolina jump to the ACC? ACC could easily absorb West Virginia from the remnants of Big 12. The SEC is then left with their pre-1990 lineup only, which doesn't really hurt them much except they lose the Texas TV footprint.

Big winner: B1G
Winner: ACC
Loser (sort of): SEC
Big loser: Big 12
 
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Interesting.....so they're putting $350M into their facilities over 3-6 yrs.

Trying to compare that to us.....NEZ project--$50M?, SEZ project-$35M?, volleyball/wrestling--$35M?, softball/baseball--$30M?, Assembly Hall---$45M? So if my #s are close, we've put in about $195M in a similiar time frame?

Well, by the sounds of it about $300M is going to effectively tear down and rebuild their entire stadium and another 15M goes to their first indoor practice facility.

Their stadium is going to be rebuilt in 2 phases - south and west for 170M and then the north and east for 130M. And from the renderings, it doesn't look like they are going to get much bang for their buck with the renovation - it looks pretty bare bones. I'd say Colorado State's stadium which just opened and was built for 80M less is vastly superior

http://www.kansan.com/sports/kansas...cle_9c3072e8-c015-11e7-8c91-1f6c98f61c3a.html
 
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The biggest factor for all parties involved with any conference expansion lies with the Assignment of Rights. If I read the article correctly, the Big 12 has the AoR which ends the soonest, and the SEC is the only major conference without one.

If the B1G grabs Oklahoma and Texas, the Big 12 is dead unless they add a lot of CUSA and AAC teams. No one is going to touch anyone from the B1G or the ACC due to $$$ (B1G) and AoR (ACC). PAC 12 is not getting nearly the media $$ they expected out of their TV network but they are basically a regional conference. I don't see a conference plucking anyone from them.

The B1G adding OU and UT renews the OU/Nebraska rivalry. UT's biggest rival was always Texas A&M. Would A&M leave the SEC to : 1) renew the rivalry with UT, 2) make more $$ with BTN, 3) face no AoR penalty, 4) stop getting their arse kicked by Alabama annually? I say the possibility is greater than anyone may think.

If A&M leaves the SEC, does Missouri follow? They get natural rivalries with Illinois and Iowa. Would Arkansas follow suit to quit getting beat up by the SEC, make more money, establish a rivalry with Mizzou and rekindle old SWC (pre-Big 12) rivalries with UT and A&M.

If the SEC starts losing teams, does South Carolina jump to the ACC? ACC could easily absorb West Virginia from the remnants of Big 12. The SEC is then left with their pre-1990 lineup only, which doesn't really hurt them much except they lose the Texas TV footprint.

Big winner: B1G
Winner: ACC
Loser (sort of): SEC
Big loser: Big 12
Uh, the B1G isn't going to take all those teams.
 
Well, by the sounds of it about $300M is going to effectively tear down and rebuild their entire stadium and another 15M goes to their first indoor practice facility.

Their stadium is going to be rebuilt in 2 phases - south and west for 170M and then the north and east for 130M. And from the renderings, it doesn't look like they are going to get much bang for their buck with the renovation - it looks pretty bare bones. I'd say Colorado State's stadium which just opened and was built for 80M less is vastly superior

http://www.kansan.com/sports/kansas...cle_9c3072e8-c015-11e7-8c91-1f6c98f61c3a.html
Dosn't matter what Kansas builds. They are not getting into the B1G,.
 
Dosn't matter what Kansas builds. They are not getting into the B1G,.

Oh, I agree, I’m just pointing out that just because Kansas is dropping 350M doesn’t mean they are getting much in return. It demonstrates that either they were so far behind, the amount of money is effectivrly meaningless, and/or is planned to be so poorly spent that they are just throwing money down the drain.

Essentially, Kansas is dropping 300M on what amounts to an average AAC football stadium with some extra video screens
 
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All I will say is that IU is damn lucky it was already in the Big Ten before the conference re-alignment started because our athletics performance, especially in football, warrants mid major conference placement.
 
Well Jim D just called and asked if I could get you guys to wrap this up... He's concerned that we'll undermine all of his negotiating stances... I told him that I'd take his concerns under consideration but couldn't promise him anything...;)


[This is intended as light humor (and, no, I did not get a phone call from Jim Delaney in regard to this topic :D)
 
All I will say is that IU is damn lucky it was already in the Big Ten before the conference re-alignment started because our athletics performance, especially in football, warrants mid major conference placement.
I vehemently disagree. There's no way the Big Ten would've ever excluded us. We are second nationally in the number of living alumni. We are a perennial top draw in basketball and, despite the football's team struggles, attendance (particularly over the last several years) has been respectable. (For example, our average home attendance was 9th out of 14 conference teams last year). The fan base is champing at the bit for a winning program and, once that happens, I have no doubt that we'll see frequent sellouts of Memorial Stadium. We are highly competitive in other sports, and we are an outstanding academic institution. These are all factors that are valued by the Big Ten and, for that matter, every other major conference.
 
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All I will say is that IU is damn lucky it was already in the Big Ten before the conference re-alignment started because our athletics performance, especially in football, warrants mid major conference placement.

Yes, IU football has struggled, and basketball is currently in a historic down period, but even still, IU is an above average power 5 athletic department. You have to realize that while yes, basketball is down relative to IU of the past, we still have just as many if not more NCAA tournament appearances over the last decade than about half of all power 5 teams. Then you have to account for IU being conference and sometimes national powers in other sports.

If IU is "lucky" to be in a power 5 conference, so are about a third or more of other current power 5 teams, even accounting the extra ding against us for football struggles since that matters the most in the realignment situation.
 
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All I will say is that IU is damn lucky it was already in the Big Ten before the conference re-alignment started because our athletics performance, especially in football, warrants mid major conference placement.
If IU is lucky, so are at least 6 other teams, if all you're going by is football.

By the way, we beat the last SEC team we played in FB - a Division champion the previous season. At their place.

Just because we don't dominate the B1G doesn't mean we'd not be successful in another conference.

And you understand the B1G isn't just football, right? We've dominated the B1G in Swimming and Diving in the past, Soccer, Baseball, Cross Country, Track and Field. And a little sport called Basketball.

We support 24 Varsity sports while a school like Purdue has 18.

If anything, the B1G is lucky to have us.
 
The biggest factor for all parties involved with any conference expansion lies with the Assignment of Rights. If I read the article correctly, the Big 12 has the AoR which ends the soonest, and the SEC is the only major conference without one.

If the B1G grabs Oklahoma and Texas, the Big 12 is dead unless they add a lot of CUSA and AAC teams. No one is going to touch anyone from the B1G or the ACC due to $$$ (B1G) and AoR (ACC). PAC 12 is not getting nearly the media $$ they expected out of their TV network but they are basically a regional conference. I don't see a conference plucking anyone from them.

The B1G adding OU and UT renews the OU/Nebraska rivalry. UT's biggest rival was always Texas A&M. Would A&M leave the SEC to : 1) renew the rivalry with UT, 2) make more $$ with BTN, 3) face no AoR penalty, 4) stop getting their arse kicked by Alabama annually? I say the possibility is greater than anyone may think.

If A&M leaves the SEC, does Missouri follow? They get natural rivalries with Illinois and Iowa. Would Arkansas follow suit to quit getting beat up by the SEC, make more money, establish a rivalry with Mizzou and rekindle old SWC (pre-Big 12) rivalries with UT and A&M.

If the SEC starts losing teams, does South Carolina jump to the ACC? ACC could easily absorb West Virginia from the remnants of Big 12. The SEC is then left with their pre-1990 lineup only, which doesn't really hurt them much except they lose the Texas TV footprint.

Big winner: B1G
Winner: ACC
Loser (sort of): SEC
Big loser: Big 12
I concur with much of your post but you're incorrect about the UT-A&M rivalry. A&M has steadfastly offered to continue the game before, during and after A&M departed the B12 for the SEC, and that standing offer continues to this day. It is Texas who refused to play A&M after the Aggies went to the SEC.

However DeLoss Dodds is no longer in the picture and if UT went to the B1G, it's possible the game could be renewed. We would then have the renewal of three great rivalries: Nebraska-OU, OU-UT and UT-A&M.
 
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If anything, the B1G is lucky to have us.

I absolutely agree with this. The problem, as I see it, is the Big10 won't matter in the near future. As sports move more and more to online streaming and away from traditional TV, Facebook, Google and Amazon are simply going to approach the schools directly and bypass the middle man. Does anyone believe Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State are going to pass up the exponential increase in revenue to protect the likes of Indiana, Purdue and Northwestern? The conference structure we have known our entire lives is not going to be protection from this.
 
I absolutely agree with this. The problem, as I see it, is the Big10 won't matter in the near future. As sports move more and more to online streaming and away from traditional TV, Facebook, Google and Amazon are simply going to approach the schools directly and bypass the middle man. Does anyone believe Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State are going to pass up the exponential increase in revenue to protect the likes of Indiana, Purdue and Northwestern? The conference structure we have known our entire lives is not going to be protection from this.
If, say, Ohio State bypasses the conference structure and sells it's content directly to Amazon, who will they be playing? I imagine Indiana, Purdue, Northwestern et al will develop a serious case of the Chuck You Farleys.
 
If, say, Ohio State bypasses the conference structure and sells it's content directly to Amazon, who will they be playing? I imagine Indiana, Purdue, Northwestern et al will develop a serious case of the Chuck You Farleys.

Like the much discussed Super League in European football, it would be a collection of traditional college football elites, though there is the possibility they will want some cannon fodder to prevent, say... Southern Cal, from going 4-8. Our mission in that case would be to continue to grow the program and eventually rise to the top. My main point being it's quite possible (likely IMO) the conference structure as we know it may not be long for this world.
 
I absolutely agree with this. The problem, as I see it, is the Big10 won't matter in the near future. As sports move more and more to online streaming and away from traditional TV, Facebook, Google and Amazon are simply going to approach the schools directly and bypass the middle man. Does anyone believe Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State are going to pass up the exponential increase in revenue to protect the likes of Indiana, Purdue and Northwestern? The conference structure we have known our entire lives is not going to be protection from this.

If the Big Ten rules don't allow them to cut their own deals, then OSU, Michigan and Penn State will have to decide whether they want to try and go it outside the conference.

Can they keep a schedule worth watching if they don't play a conference schedule?

Can they keep winning if they play all Top 20 teams?

I'm sure Delany never tells people outside the family what he is thinking, but at the next sit down, I bet he is already ahead of the pack with the next phase of this thing of ours.
 
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I absolutely agree with this. The problem, as I see it, is the Big10 won't matter in the near future. As sports move more and more to online streaming and away from traditional TV, Facebook, Google and Amazon are simply going to approach the schools directly and bypass the middle man. Does anyone believe Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State are going to pass up the exponential increase in revenue to protect the likes of Indiana, Purdue and Northwestern? The conference structure we have known our entire lives is not going to be protection from this.
I am certain the BTN has everything locked up legally to prevent individual schools from selling streaming rights to their games.

Possibly in the next round of contract negotiations, but I seriously doubt the conference will allow individual schools to cut a separate deal.
 
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If the Big Ten rules don't allow them to cut their own deals, then OSU, Michigan and Penn State will have to decide whether they want to try and go it outside the conference.

Can they keep a schedule worth watching if they don't play a conference schedule?

Can they keep winning if they play all Top 20 teams?

I'm sure Delany never tells people outside the family what he is thinking, but at the next sit down, I bet he is already ahead of the pack with the next phase of this thing of ours.
Ain't no way in heck the O$U and Michigan alumni would allow this to happen. Over 100 years of history gone? No way.

Penn State, I could see. They don't have the generational and emotional attachment of the Big Ten.

But $40plus million per year says they won't.

As long as the BTN keeps showing O$U and UM reruns 10 to 1 over other conference teams, they're solid in the B1G.
 
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Like the much discussed Super League in European football, it would be a collection of traditional college football elites, though there is the possibility they will want some cannon fodder to prevent, say... Southern Cal, from going 4-8. Our mission in that case would be to continue to grow the program and eventually rise to the top. My main point being it's quite possible (likely IMO) the conference structure as we know it may not be long for this world.

Though the discussed European Super League would just be a replacement for the UEFA Champions League (typically weekday games), to get more frequent elite matchups than the current system produces. Members would still belong to their domestic leagues which play on weekends.
 
Ain't no way in heck the O$U and Michigan alumni would allow this to happen. Over 100 years of history gone? No way.

Penn State, I could see. They don't have the generational and emotional attachment of the Big Ten.

But $40plus million per year says they won't.

As long as the BTN keeps showing O$U and UM reruns 10 to 1 over other conference teams, they're solid in the B1G.

Also, the SEC self love would prevent a college football super league too.
 
"...[they] will have to decide whether they want to try and go it outside the conference."

That's my point. I find it quite likely they will choose to abandon the Big10 for the money. To some degree, isn't that what they've already done? Delaney and the school presidents have already mutated the Big10 into something many of us over the age of 45 don't much recognize as the conference we grew up with. It was all done in the name of money.

"Can they keep a schedule worth watching if they don't play a conference schedule?"

I feel confident the schedule would be quite popular if you were seeing 8-10 matchups each week along the lines of Georgia-Texas, Alabama-Ohio State, Notre Dame-Penn State, etc...

"Can they keep winning if they play all Top 20 teams?"

As I said, it's possible they will bring along what they perceive to be cannon fodder to prevent immediate erosion of success which would certainly happen otherwise.

Let me be clear, I'm not saying this is going to happen, but it is what I think will happen. It may be Delaney and the other commissioners find a way to hold the current structure together... at least in large part. However, my belief is the money will speak too loudly and based on past experience, I fear will trump conference loyalty before too long.
 
Possibly in the next round of contract negotiations, but I seriously doubt the conference will allow individual schools to cut a separate deal.

Yes. None of this could begin to happen before current deals expire.
 
Though the discussed European Super League would just be a replacement for the UEFA Champions League (typically weekday games), to get more frequent elite matchups than the current system produces. Members would still belong to their domestic leagues which play on weekends.

That is one version which would loosely align with the notion of "cannon fodder" being brought into a new college football deal, but there are many close to the "non-discussions" who say proposals for a 20+ team league which would be in direct competition with the current national leagues are also being considered.
 
"Ain't no way in heck the O$U and Michigan alumni would allow this to happen. Over 100 years of history gone? No way."

We simply disagree (and that's OK) on how much value the alumni will place on that history. History didn't stop the Sooners and Huskers from dropping their annual game. Did anyone growing up in the 70's think Texas and Arkansas would one day not play? Pitt vs Penn State on an annual basis? Florida - Miami? Texas - Texas A&M?

"But $40plus million per year says they won't."

The big Internet Companies (for lack of a better term) will pretty easily beat that payout. I think many underestimate the amount of cash these guys generate and have on hand... while ESPN struggles.

Don't get me wrong, I don't WANT this to happen. It's just where I think things will end up having seen the behavior of the schools up to this point. Not everyone will agree and I respect that.
 
Conference benefits go beyond sports TV rev. Remember the big money is in research not sports. Billions versus millions.
Regarding sports - OSU, UM, PSU all need a steady diet of Iowa, IU, Boilers, Gophers, Illini, etc. to meet their sports needs. Without us they'd have a hard time.
Go Hoosiers!
 
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Ain't no way in heck the O$U and Michigan alumni would allow this to happen. Over 100 years of history gone? No way.

Penn State, I could see. They don't have the generational and emotional attachment of the Big Ten.

But $40plus million per year says they won't.

As long as the BTN keeps showing O$U and UM reruns 10 to 1 over other conference teams, they're solid in the B1G.

I think I saw an article recently that said the next BTN payout will be $52,000,000 per school (except for newbies Maryland and Rutgers - who are not yet up to a full cut.).

Fred is gonna get a new golf cart!

Meanwhile, the most recent Sun Belt conference TV payout DROPPED to around $250,000 per school.
Scholarship football is unsustainable at that compensation level.

EDITED Correction - the WHOLE BIG TEN payout will be $52,000,000. The BTN money is just part.
 
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"...[they] will have to decide whether they want to try and go it outside the conference."

That's my point. I find it quite likely they will choose to abandon the Big10 for the money. To some degree, isn't that what they've already done? Delaney and the school presidents have already mutated the Big10 into something many of us over the age of 45 don't much recognize as the conference we grew up with. It was all done in the name of money.

"Can they keep a schedule worth watching if they don't play a conference schedule?"

I feel confident the schedule would be quite popular if you were seeing 8-10 matchups each week along the lines of Georgia-Texas, Alabama-Ohio State, Notre Dame-Penn State, etc...

"Can they keep winning if they play all Top 20 teams?"

As I said, it's possible they will bring along what they perceive to be cannon fodder to prevent immediate erosion of success which would certainly happen otherwise.

Let me be clear, I'm not saying this is going to happen, but it is what I think will happen. It may be Delaney and the other commissioners find a way to hold the current structure together... at least in large part. However, my belief is the money will speak too loudly and based on past experience, I fear will trump conference loyalty before too long.
Some non-fuzzy math. If the top 20 football schools go into some kind of super league and play each other every week, I can flat guarantee the average winning percentage of the collective members: 50%.

When you see Bama going 7-3 and Michigan at 4-6 and Southern Cal at 5-5, then the heavyweights aren't so heavy anymore.
 
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Interesting.....so they're putting $350M into their facilities over 3-6 yrs.

Trying to compare that to us.....NEZ project--$50M?, SEZ project-$35M?, volleyball/wrestling--$35M?, softball/baseball--$30M?, Assembly Hall---$45M? So if my #s are close, we've put in about $195M in a similiar time frame?
SEZ is $53 mil.
 
All I will say is that IU is damn lucky it was already in the Big Ten before the conference re-alignment started because our athletics performance, especially in football, warrants mid major conference placement.
don't pay any attention to this guy. he's got something personal against glass.
 
don't pay any attention to this guy. he's got something personal against glass.
Actually, I do too. As Chair of the Capital Improvement Board, he got Indiana taxpayers on the hook for $1 billion for the Irsay Stadium (with retractable roof).
 
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