B10 preview by Three Man Weave spots IU at #3

[rikki-tikka-tava]

That's #3 in conference - they tabbed IU #30 nationally.

https://www.three-man-weave.com/3mw/big-ten-basketball-preview-2019

https://www.three-man-weave.com/3mw/indiana-basketball-preview-2019

 

[MtPeter04]

Thanks for posting that. It was well written, and provided a sensible outlook for the season.

 

[dbmhoosier]

The fact that they mention Phinissee but not Hunter on the newcomers list is downright comical. I like Rob but Al will play a lot more than him this season.

 

[T.M.P.]

The fact that they mention Phinissee but not Hunter on the newcomers list is downright comical. I like Rob but Al will play a lot more than him this season.

Thanks Nostradumass.

 

[ufo33]

The faster Phinesee is ready at PG for IU, the faster IU will be a dangerous tourney team.

 

[IDontWannaLargeFarva]

All 3 are going to get their chance to take the reins at PG.

I personally hope Devonte wins out because I believe he has the highest ceiling.

Danny made a significant leap his Sophmore to Junior year. Let's hope they are on the same timetable.

 

[TR32]

The fact that they mention Phinissee but not Hunter on the newcomers list is downright comical. I like Rob but Al will play a lot more than him this season.

It wasn't a direct comparison but I agree he may have missed a chance to comment on Hunter. Rob is going to play, as will Al D. They simply don't have enough guards to keep either on the bench.

IF Hunter or Anderson were to show particular skill on O or D at the 2, then possibly one of the non-Langford guards would lose some minutes. But as ball handlers, there are more or less 2 on the team. Last year Newkirk was a 5th year senior and he was important for all aspects of ball handling. One would imagine Durham would pick up the slack, but it is also likely that Rob Phin is simply a more well rounded PG. Therefore, I think he will have plenty of chances to play the point.


The biggest question for me is between Anderson, Forester, Moore, and Thompson, which 2 are going to pretty much sit the pine all season? If you slot in Hunter getting decent minutes, it is entirely likely that more than one of those guys is going to sit a lot, barring injuries.

 

[Frosty83]

Rob will be very good. Just a matter of time.

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

The biggest question for me is between Anderson, Forester, Moore, and Thompson, which 2 are going to pretty much sit the pine all season? If you slot in Hunter getting decent minutes, it is entirely likely that more than one of those guys is going to sit a lot, barring injuries.

Archie makes it sound like they will all get their shot. Per his podcast - linked on the board.

 

[TR32]

Archie makes it sound like they will all get their shot. Per his podcast - linked on the board.

Sure. But as a season unfolds, teams don't play 13-14 guys. Even with Davis missing a lot of time, the minutes will be few and far between for a couple of guys.

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

Sure. But as a season unfolds, teams don't play 13-14 guys. Even with Davis missing a lot of time, the minutes will be few and far between for a couple of guys.

Just said they'd get their shot - agree it's natural to expect that all won't log major minutes barring roster 'woes' or the Team being so damn good that a lot of liberties can be taken with substitutions. Said a few months back that'd be hard not to play most everyone as deep and talented a group this is - good problem to have.

 

[TR32]

Agreed. Just wondering aloud. Thompson may spell Morgan if he can defend and rebound. Moore seems a step behind skill wise but is packing on weight and at 6'10" he could help block shots. Hard to say if he can defend, say, a Christian Watford.

Forester looks like an athlete who could really be a great asset on the break and on the glass. But he may lack the leg strength this year to stay in the post against big ten guys. Anderson is solid physically and seems to be a natural shooter, but with hunter , romeo, and Smith, plus McRoberts, it is just hard to see where he sees time.

In videos, i love the way Hunter finishes with both hands. Romeo, hunter, smith and morgan on the floor together seems like an absolute headache for team defenses. But IU lacks a true, experienced, point to make that line up work often.

It will be interesting to see how things go.

 

[TR32]

On the article, i really enjoy their insight. I think it is a nice run down of the upcoming Big Ten season.

I contest Purdue and Michigan being that high and here is why:

Purdue capitalized off of having a mammoth in the middle with shooters all around. Edwards is a good player, no doubt. Reminds me a bit of John Starks from back in the day, but he will not have as much freedom as he did last year, and Haarms a d the new guy won't be able to split the minutes like last year because Edwards is gone and he was a smart baller on both ends. I think Purdue is around 5th or 6th.

Michigan lost a ton in Robinson and Wagner from a perimeter shooting standpoint. The new brash Canadian kid is going to be good, but he is young, and I just dont see him making up the outside shooting against big perimeter teams. Obviously their guard corps is outstanding, so they should have a great season. But it is tough for me to put them 2nd.

Another comment is on Nebraska. Even though they return some very good players, the loss of that big bruising rebounder is going to put a lot more fouls and assignments on Copeland and Roby. Plus, Tim Miles has been in this position before and has disappointed with returning stars. I just don't know about Nebraska. They could play as high as 3rd or drop down to 8th or 9th.

Maryland is a question mark and so is Wisconsin. I sort of expect Wisconsin to bounce back up to top 4 this year having a pretty deep, experienced group. Maryland seems to have a lot resting on the 2 freshmen and whether anyone can help them on the perimeter like Heurter did. Without him, they would have really struggled even last year. I dont really think they are a versatile team. They do their thing and if it doesnt work, they lose. That was Groce's problem too.

Having said that, if Illinois has any talent this year I expect them to be a tough out. Same with Iowa, but we already know that about Iowa.

 

[IDontWannaLargeFarva]

Said a few months back that'd be hard not to play most everyone as deep and talented a group this is - good problem to have.

I just don't understand this line of thinking. It's all relative is it not?

Every team needs to have a cut off for the sake of continuity. And yes, there are plenty of teams out there deeper and more talented than IU this season. I would hope we'll have plenty deeper and more talented teams as we get further along in the Miller area.

Are we really going to play this charade every off season?

"ZOMG! look at all the talent, how is there any way we don't play all 13 plus walk ons!"

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

I just don't understand this line of thinking. It's all relative is it not?

Every team needs to have a cut off for the sake of continuity. And yes, there are plenty of teams out there deeper and more talented than IU this season. I would hope we'll have plenty deeper and more talented teams as we get further along in the Miller area.

Are we really going to play this charade every off season?

"ZOMG! look at all the talent, how is there any way we don't play all 13 plus walk ons!"

Pretty early for drama but seems like there's some confusion between empathy and strategy. Not sure exactly what you mean by 'sake of continuity' but do imagine that playing time is about individual performance and teamwork, and that generally less is more/simpler is better WRT rotation.

Not going to go look for it but the referenced comment pertained to any coach's dilemma when faced with individuals who are talented, driven, used to starting and basically in pain every minute they're not on the Floor. Never said they all should play, only that it'd "be hard not to play" them, i.e, stressful for Coach and all concerned. Hell, it's hard just watching those guys sitting on the bench - working, waiting, hoping and probably even some praying for the chance to do what they love.

 

[dbmhoosier]

Most teams only play about 8 guys. Morgan, Romeo, Smith, Green, McRoberts, Fitz, Al, and Hunter is your rotation. Phinissee and Race will get a few minutes here and there if there's foul trouble or injuries but not many. Deron may get a few minutes come January IF he's fully healthy. Anderson, Moore, and Forrester will keep the bench warm.

 

[ufo33]

Fitzner / Davis / Race / Jake / Clifton
Morgan / Race/ Jake
McRoberts / Smith / Hunter / Damezi
Romeo / Devonte / Damezi or Hunter
Phinesee/Al/Devonte/Vijay

Morgan
Smith
Hunter
Romeo
Phinesee

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

Most teams only play about 8 guys. Morgan, Romeo, Smith, Green, McRoberts, Fitz, Al, and Hunter is your rotation. Phinissee and Race will get a few minutes here and there if there's foul trouble or injuries but not many. Deron may get a few minutes come January IF he's fully healthy. Anderson, Moore, and Forrester will keep the bench warm.

Quite an assertion absent the benefit of seeing a single practice or minute of play from anyone in months beyond HS all-star games. Reckon I'll wait to see what happens after they actually begin scrimmaging together...

 

[IDontWannaLargeFarva]

Pretty early for drama but seems like there's some confusion between empathy and strategy. Not sure exactly what you mean by 'sake of continuity' but do imagine that playing time is about individual performance and teamwork, and that generally less is more/simpler is better WRT rotation.

Not going to go look for it but the referenced comment pertained to any coach's dilemma when faced with individuals who are talented, driven, used to starting and basically in pain every minute they're not on the Floor. Never said they all should play, only that it'd "be hard not to play" them, i.e, stressful for Coach and all concerned. Hell, it's hard just watching those guys sitting on the bench - working, waiting, hoping and probably even some praying for the chance to do what they love.

Point being maybe we're not as deep and talented as you think? Maybe guys like Moore, Thompson and Durham bench themselves because they're flawed players comparatively?

Believe it or not these players don't need you on here White knighting for them. As long as people are somewhat respectful, they're allowed to critique and make predictions about them.

 

[Eurocyldon]

Not worried about starters or backups. I'm going with the idea they will have to earn playing time this season. Whoever is on the court will have earned it in practice and in how they play game-to-game. That is a huge difference from the past two seasons and has to be a net positive (ha ha).

If you want an idea of how many will play just look to what he did at Dayton. Seems like he plays 8 to 9 in most games, but in 2015-2016 he had six guys that played in 32 games with another six playing in at least 22 games (and not just two or three minutes of mop up action).

 

[Larryismyname]

Quite an assertion absent the benefit of seeing a single practice or minute of play from anyone in months beyond HS all-star games. Reckon I'll wait to see what happens after they actually begin scrimmaging together...

It’s “quite an assertion” that is understood by people who watch a great deal of college basketball.

 

[T.M.P.]

Quite an assertion absent the benefit of seeing a single practice or minute of play from anyone in months beyond HS all-star games. Reckon I'll wait to see what happens after they actually begin scrimmaging together...

No doubt the rotation will be trimmed to 8 or 9, but who that 8 or 9 will be is up in the air. There will be 5 to 6 guys sitting late in the season but besides Morgan, Langford and Smith as locks to play, we have no idea what the rotation will be.

Conversing about it is fine, as long as it's tempered by reality but we have one poster running around claiming Al is ahead of Rob based on practice. Except we don't start practice until the 29th, we've instead being doing workouts and conditioning. We have others making the same type of ignorant assumptions and none of them know anything except what they feel but instead of presenting it that way, they present as a truth.

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

Point being maybe we're not as deep and talented as you think? Maybe guys like Moore, Thompson and Durham bench themselves because they're flawed players comparatively?

Hysterical, but not in any good way. You probably see demons the same way you read shit that isn't there.

 

[IDontWannaLargeFarva]

Hysterical, but not in any good way. You probably see demons the same way you read shit that isn't there.

Shit that isn't there? Like "magic" would you say?

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

As one can't see what one doesn't believe exists, and apart from your weak attempt to indict out of context, to you, never. "Isn't there" is more like a capacity by you for intelligent and/or rational discourse. Three times I've made the effort to have a civil discussion with you since the first few went south, the last being a sincere answer (above) to a question that was clearly an attempt to incite. But you're not remotely interested in that or anything else apart from mining posts for ammunition to make yourself feel superior at someone else's expense. Just like Dana/Ord/Larry.

Enough. You and your micro-p will just have to find others to try and molest. Probably have better luck with someone less smart than you are. GLWT, not exactly a robust candidate pool.

 

[IDontWannaLargeFarva]

As one can't see what one doesn't believe exists, and apart from your weak attempt to indict out of context, to you, never. "Isn't there" is more like a capacity by you for intelligent and/or rational discourse. Three times I've made the effort to have a civil discussion with you since the first few went south, the last being a sincere answer (above) to a question that was clearly an attempt to incite. But you're not remotely interested in that or anything else apart from mining posts for ammunition to make yourself feel superior at someone else's expense. Just like Dana/Ord/Larry.

Enough. You and your micro-p will just have to find others to try and molest. Probably have better luck with someone less smart than you are. GLWT, not exactly a robust candidate pool.

My problem with you Rikki is that you try to disguise that fact that you only speak in abstract generalities with your vocabulary. I wont abide by that, and call it out when I see it.

I've never once seen a post from you that doesn't look like a Stephen A. Smith or Skip Bayless quote, run through a thesaurus. Never once have I thought. "Oh that was actually insightful, I learned something there" We just get talking points.

You're saying I'm the one that wont engage, but it's really you. You're a lazy poster.

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

Opening with "My problem" pretty much says it all - everything that follows is just a manifestation/derivative of that and has zip to do with me. For this I am grateful.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Quite an assertion absent the benefit of seeing a single practice or minute of play from anyone in months beyond HS all-star games. Reckon I'll wait to see what happens after they actually begin scrimmaging together...

Much to learn about not only the incoming crew but more than one of the returning players as well. Experience teaches us to wait and see some interaction and execution. Some players are likely to enter the rotation mid-season.

 

[mobilehoosier]

Hunter is tearing it up. Look for this kid to play and play well. Got some reliable info that said Hunter is impressive at both ends.
Go Hoosiers!

 

[mobilehoosier]

Hunter is tearing it up. Look for this kid to play and play well. Got some reliable info that said Hunter is impressive at both ends.
Go Hoosiers!

Info comes from someone connected to training staff.
Go Hoosiers!

 

[hondo314]

My problem with you Rikki is that you try to disguise that fact that you only speak in abstract generalities with your vocabulary. I wont abide by that, and call it out when I see it.

I've never once seen a post from you that doesn't look like a Stephen A. Smith or Skip Bayless quote, run through a thesaurus. Never once have I thought. "Oh that was actually insightful, I learned something there" We just get talking points.

You're saying I'm the one that wont engage, but it's really you. You're a lazy poster.

lol. we all suck sometimes but none of us sucks all the time. -- Ghandi

 

[MG80]

Most teams only play about 8 guys. Morgan, Romeo, Smith, Green, McRoberts, Fitz, Al, and Hunter is your rotation. Phinissee and Race will get a few minutes here and there if there's foul trouble or injuries but not many. Deron may get a few minutes come January IF he's fully healthy. Anderson, Moore, and Forrester will keep the bench warm.

Mostly agree but I think Race T is going to play a significant role for us rotating behind Morgan and Smith. He’s had a full year to get acclimated to the system and to get stronger. A knock down shooter with size. If he can defend he plays.
But I’m still not sold on Al as a point unless he’s gotten a whole lot stronger with the ball and his court vision has improved. DeVonte is much better on both accounts. IMO Romeo will be initiating the offense quite a bit off rebounds and outlets so wouldn’t be surprised to see Hunter or Anderson playing at times in a 3-guard with RL and DG.

 

[IDontWannaLargeFarva]

Mostly agree but I think Race T is going to play a significant role for us rotating behind Morgan and Smith. He’s had a full year to get acclimated to the system and to get stronger. A knock down shooter with size. If he can defend he plays.
But I’m still not sold on Al as a point unless he’s gotten a whole lot stronger with the ball and his court vision has improved. DeVonte is much better on both accounts. IMO Romeo will be initiating the offense quite a bit off rebounds and outlets so wouldn’t be surprised to see Hunter or Anderson playing at times in a 3-guard with RL and DG.

If Race is really a knock down shooter, he will play a ton, because that is something the team desperately needs.

Right now our best shooter is 6'10, which is fine, but not ideal when your least mobile player is your best shooter.

I'm skeptical, because I don't believe Race had that reputation coming out of High School.

 

[ufo33]

If Race is really a knock down shooter, he will play a ton, because that is something the team desperately needs.

Right now our best shooter is 6'10, which is fine, but not ideal when your least mobile player is your best shooter.

I'm skeptical, because I don't believe Race had that reputation coming out of High School.

3pt shooting: Fitzner, Romeo, Damezi, Phinesee, Race, Hunter, Devonte who is streaky hot or streaky cold, McRoberts, Al supposedly improved, Moore

 

[ufo33]

Mostly agree but I think Race T is going to play a significant role for us rotating behind Morgan and Smith. He’s had a full year to get acclimated to the system and to get stronger. A knock down shooter with size. If he can defend he plays.
But I’m still not sold on Al as a point unless he’s gotten a whole lot stronger with the ball and his court vision has improved. DeVonte is much better on both accounts. IMO Romeo will be initiating the offense quite a bit off rebounds and outlets so wouldn’t be surprised to see Hunter or Anderson playing at times in a 3-guard with RL and DG.

Not sold on Devonte at PG, far too careless with the ball, questionable shot selection, streaky shooter hot or cold. Devonte does feed the post as well as anyone last season but also telegraphed his passes. I am more comfortable with Phinesee, Al, Romeo, Damezi, Hunter initiating the offense without turning the ball over. Newkirk and Johnson are still stuck in my mind as the most careless IU Senior guards in my lifetime, that has to improve for IU to have any consistent success.

 

[IndianaHoops]

3pt shooting: Fitzner, Romeo, Damezi, Phinesee, Race, Hunter, Devonte who is streaky hot or streaky cold, McRoberts, Al supposedly improved, Moore

You do know Green shot over 50% from 3PT the last 12 games of the season, right?

16-31

And he will be a junior.

There are not 4 freshman who are going to be better shooters than Green this year.

You need to temper your expectations of the Freshman besides Romeo.......

Also, during that same 12 game stretch, Green had 37 assists. That’s over 3 a game.

He did have 25 TOs, which needs to improve.

 

[T.M.P.]

You do know Green shot over 50% from 3PT the last 12 games of the season, right?

16-31

And he will be a junior.

There are not 4 true freshman who are going to be better shooters than Green this year.

You need to temper your expectations of the Freshman besides Romeo.......

Also, during that same 12 game stretch, Green had 37 assists. That’s over 3 a game.

He did have 25 TOs, which needs to improve.

Devonte's problem has nothing to do with skills, abilities or physical tools. It's purely mental, and that's really hard to fix or teach.

He's been below Josh Newkirk level of production for two years, and hoping he has a cerebral reversal in his third may be be a long shot.

Hope he gets it, but glad we have options if he doesn't.

 

[IndianaHoops]

Devonte's problem has nothing to do with skills, abilities or physical tools. It's purely mental, and that's really hard to teach.

Miller said something really interesting during the recent Podcast.....

Hinting that Green didn’t fully trust or buy into the new staff until the end of the season.

And that he was fully committed this summer......

Green has the ability to be All Big Ten. Let’s hope he puts it all together because he could be the missing part to push this team to the next level.

 

[T.M.P.]

Miller said something really interesting during the recent Podcast.....

Hinting that Green didn’t fully trust or buy into the new staff until the end of the season.

And that he was fully committed this summer......

He has the tools to be one of the best combo guards in the country. He'll never be a true point, just doesn't have the mentality or understanding for it. We need him or one of the two others to step up to advance to next level..

That's the best thing about this team, we have multiple options for every role and position. Who ever wins the starting job(s) will not only have earned it but beat out someone fairly talented.

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

Not sold on Devonte at PG, far too careless with the ball, questionable shot selection, streaky shooter hot or cold. Devonte does feed the post as well as anyone last season but also telegraphed his passes. I am more comfortable with Phinesee, Al, Romeo, Damezi, Hunter initiating the offense without turning the ball over. Newkirk and Johnson are still stuck in my mind as the most careless IU Senior guards in my lifetime, that has to improve for IU to have any consistent success.

Yeah too bad he won't have improved one bit since last year.

OK, do get why one might "not be sold" on DG, just can't help but credit him wth potentially turning the corner. Not an irrational reach given his pure athleticism and speed, his ceiling in that respect at least hard to match. Maybe the IU Player I most want to be wowed by this Season. Doesn't mean it'll happen, but if his decision-making catches up to his vision and innate talent it'd be something to see.

Have to expect Romeo is going to make everyone around him better if only because of the constant threat he poses, see Juwan and Justin in effect anchoring the middle, and a lot of early rotation in the other two spots. Just so many ways to go, so many ways it could. Pretty sure the performance bar for practice/scrimmage is going to be a lot higher this year, promising just in itself.

Similarly looking forward to games with single-digit TOs.