Armaan Franklin

[Stuffshot]

I started this just to point out that Franklin started tonight and had 8 assists. I didn't want it to get buried.

Don't know how long he will continue to start, but wow, 8 assists.

If you want to look at other stuff in the box score, here's a link:

https://iuhoosiers.com/mens-basketball/2019-20/boxscore/vs-western-illinois/23398/pdf

 

[TR32]

I was going to post this as stat of the day.

Yogi had 7 assists in his first game- Armaan just had 8. Impressive!

 

[minneman]

Also 0 turnovers to go with those 8 assists.

 

[travlinhoosier]

Yogi had 7 assists in his first game- Armaan just had 8. Impressive!

And Yogi was a PG from the get-go.

 

[TR32]

What is really interesting with Franklin in 2 games of video is how he moves off of screens and just how athletic he looks on the court. He is sort of everywhere out there. I can't blame Archie for saying the positives because the kid is going to really help IU.

 

[TommyCracker]

Yeah he's actually more of a passing point guard than Rob is.

Rob has never been much of an assist guy, when he drives he drives to score. Tonight Franklin drove to dish.

Nothing wrong with that about Rob. Just that we've been calling him a pass first point guard since he committed. He's not, at least not yet. He's a scoring guard.

The reason I'm mentioning it is because Franklin looked amazing at the point tonight. He pushed the ball on the break (I've been complaining about our lack of transition points for two years but tonight it was very prominent, much because of Franklin, and Smith guarding on the perimeter causing turnovers and running the break for dunks).

Rob is an outstanding defender an scoring minded guard with an unbelievable handle. Distributing needs to be developed a little more or not if Franklin keeps playing like he has shown against these cupcakes.

 

[ufo33]

Franklin is too good not to play now!
8 Assists, 0 Turnovers
In his first NCAA game as a Freshman
Wow!

 

[HereYouGoIU]

Franklin is too good not to play now!
8 Assists, 0 Turnovers
In his first NCAA game as a Freshman
Wow!

Against lesser comp for sure. Nice first start for Franklin.

Are you advocating for Franklin starting over Phin? Especially in B1G?

 

[kkott]

Lot's of great stats to be excited about. Franklin's 8 assists and 0 turnovers, Durham's completely perfect line: 7-7, 3-3, and 4-4 on FTs. 46% on 3s as a team, 11 TO's which nagged the team last year, and while not record-setting at least more respectable 68% on FTs. Plus we got minutes out of Hunter, Phinisee seems to be recovering, Al is obviously OK and Smith was more judicious on his 3 attempts. Lot's of good signs and we didn't have what was supposed to be our best scorer! Love to see those FTs bump up to better than 75%. We're due for a better than expected year after last year's disappointment, and this was a good start.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

meanwhile Newman is being redshirted up in WL. Franklin has to feel pretty good right now. Kid needs to keep it up. Solid 4 yr career ahead of him.

 

[Kids say the darndest things]

Against lesser comp for sure. Nice first start for Franklin.

Are you advocating for Franklin starting over Phin? Especially in B1G?

Don't think he was suggesting that; Not going to happen! With Rob on limited minutes, Armaan will get some valuable minutes to develop. It is impressive to see him embrace a role to facilitate others. He will be in the running for the seventh man at some point later this year.

 

[abraxis]

meanwhile Newman is being redshirted up in WL. Franklin has to feel pretty good right now. Kid needs to keep it up. Solid 4 yr career ahead of him.

It would be nice if IU was in a position to afford redshirting someone. I remember those days-the Knight days of glory, the stockpiling of excess talent in management of leaner years. Who was IU's last redshirt?

 

[kkott]

It would be nice if IU was in a position to afford redshirting someone. I remember those days-the Knight days of glory, the stockpiling of excess talent in management of leaner years. Who was IU's last redshirt?

The word on Crean, and seems evident from his history, was he didn't want redshirts and wanted kids playing asap. One thing that struck me in looking over UVA's roster last year was that they'd had several redshirts... but, ehhh, how'd that work out for 'em?

 

[abraxis]

The word on Crean, and seems evident from his history, was he didn't want redshirts and wanted kids playing asap. One thing that struck me in looking over UVA's roster last year was that they'd had several redshirts... but, ehhh, how'd that work out for 'em?

Crean may have been too insecure to redshirt. It does take a leap of faith, you know. It's a luxury affordable only to a coach with confidence.

 

[klize17]

It would be nice if IU was in a position to afford redshirting someone. I remember those days-the Knight days of glory, the stockpiling of excess talent in management of leaner years. Who was IU's last redshirt?

Race Thompson

 

[abraxis]

Race Thompson

"Yahtzee!"

 

[kkott]

Crean may have been too insecure to redshirt. It does take a leap of faith, you know. It's a luxury affordable only to a coach with confidence.

It was just funny to me. That he was against redshirts and then I look at the reigning NCAA champs and they had like 3-4 players they'd redshirted.... DOH!

 

[BNIBoiler]

meanwhile Newman is being redshirted up in WL. Franklin has to feel pretty good right now. Kid needs to keep it up. Solid 4 yr career ahead of him.

I did not see the Newman redshirt coming. Painter values defense, perhaps his defense was not where it should be. Purdue has a lot of quality guards but if anyone was to be redshirted, I thought it would have been Isaiah Thompson due to his slight build. He did not score last night but seem to play with a lot of confidence.

 

[IndyResident16]

The word on Crean, and seems evident from his history, was he didn't want redshirts and wanted kids playing asap. One thing that struck me in looking over UVA's roster last year was that they'd had several redshirts... but, ehhh, how'd that work out for 'em?

It all negated though. The average tenure of D1 basketball player at 1 school is less than 3 years, at a P5 conference it's almost 2. You're not likely to see a 5th year. Chances are, if you redshirt in a P5 conference you aren't good enough to begin with and eventually are passed over and transfer out.

There are outliers like Mikal Bridges and Deandre Hunter. But neither of those guys made it to their redshirt senior year. I've read that of the 7 or 8 guys Painter has redshirted over the years, not a single one has made it to their 5th year. Get your guys experience, even if it is in mop up duty, because statistics tell you that you aren't bound to have a player stick around for 5 years.

 

[VanPastorMan]

Also 0 turnovers to go with those 8 assists.

Bingo.

 

[kkott]

It all negated though. The average tenure of D1 basketball player at 1 school is less than 3 years, at a P5 conference it's almost 2. You're not likely to see a 5th year. Chances are, if you redshirt in a P5 conference you aren't good enough to begin with and eventually are passed over and transfer out.

There are outliers like Mikal Bridges and Deandre Hunter. But neither of those guys made it to their redshirt senior year. I've read that of the 7 or 8 guys Painter has redshirted over the years, not a single one has made it to their 5th year. Get your guys experience, even if it is in mop up duty, because statistics tell you that you aren't bound to have a player stick around for 5 years.

Yes, I get it, and that is "conventional" wisdom... which is great if you want to be conventional... like the 300+ other teams that didn't win the NC last year. What I found interesting is that 1) they had a very experienced roster, and 2) that experience was bolstered by 5 kids that had redshirted during their career there. Maybe an anomaly, but certainly interesting and maybe 1 strategy to compete at the highest level if you're not a program that reels in multiple 5 stars every year.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

I did not see the Newman redshirt coming. Painter values defense, perhaps his defense was not where it should be. Purdue has a lot of quality guards but if anyone was to be redshirted, I thought it would have been Isaiah Thompson due to his slight build. He did not score last night but seem to play with a lot of confidence.

me either...I figured they (Newman and Franklin) would both be rotation guys, get 10-15 min a game and contribute this year. No knock to Newman either, he's still got a good career ahead of him. But Franklin has fallen into some good luck so far and has made the most of it.

 

[IndyResident16]

Yes, I get it, and that is "conventional" wisdom... which is great if you want to be conventional... like the 300+ other teams that didn't win the NC last year. What I found interesting is that 1) they had a very experienced roster, and 2) that experience was bolstered by 5 kids that had redshirted during their career there. Maybe an anomaly, but certainly interesting and maybe 1 strategy to compete at the highest level if you're not a program that reels in multiple 5 stars every year.

I definitely get the pros and cons to red-shirting. Just stating that you're not likely to get that 5th year out of the player red-shirting given the current climate and transfer epidemic of college basketball.

 

[Cutter1973]

Race Thompson

Jerome Hunter, but that was a long time ago.

 

[VanPastorMan]

I definitely get the pros and cons to red-shirting. Just stating that you're not likely to get that 5th year out of the player red-shirting given the current climate and transfer epidemic of college basketball.

Great point. This 5th yr deal is getting so big that it's like teams re recruit. I might need a 5th yr player because the time I invested in this certain kid is wasted because he wanted to go some other place for his 5th yr.

 

[kkott]

I definitely get the pros and cons to red-shirting. Just stating that you're not likely to get that 5th year out of the player red-shirting given the current climate and transfer epidemic of college basketball.

I have no idea if UVA does this strategically, or if it was just circumstances with injuries, but 5 RS players on a roster for a year seemed like a ton, and obviously didn't hurt them. I just think it may argue for doing it more frequently or at least not avoiding it, more than alot of programs/coaches seem to. Your point seems to argue "play them while you have them", and I'm just saying it may be worth considering more frequently than the current climate suggests. Obviously you have to have the confidence that you'll keep kids within our program.

 

[IndyResident16]

Great point. This 5th yr deal is getting so big that it's like teams re recruit. I might need a 5th yr player because the time I invested in this certain kid is wasted because he wanted to go some other place for his 5th yr.

With the grad transfer rule. I don't see the need to redshirt anyone as a freshman unless they're hurt. Why potentially tie up a scholarship when you can go out and get a 5th year grad transfer who already has experience?

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

With the grad transfer rule. I don't see the need to redshirt anyone as a freshman unless they're hurt. Why potentially tie up a scholarship when you can go out and get a 5th year grad transfer who already has experience?

great points....we didn't have the grad tx rule back in the 80s-90s so redshirting is a whole different proposition now. If the kid is a stud 3 yrs from now with playing time/starting role and scoring on a good team, he stays. If not (ala Mo Creek), he's going elsewhere to get more reps and shots....and a free Grad degree.

 

[IndyResident16]

great points....we didn't have the grad tx rule back in the 80s-90s so redshirting is a whole different proposition now. If the kid is a stud 3 yrs from now with playing time/starting role and scoring on a good team, he stays. If not (ala Mo Creek), he's going elsewhere to get more reps and shots....and a free Grad degree.

That's what I mean about the current landscape of college basketball. In the 80s/90s, especially the 80s, you went to school for 4 years, sometimes 5 if it involved a redshirt and you got your degree. If you were lucky you played in the NBA but you weren't getting paid 7 and 8 figures like today. Your degree was needed because you had to work another job after your NBA days were over.

Today, you don't need 5 years of college basketball. There's plenty of professional avenues out there, especially overseas, many that pay 6 and 7 figure salaries.

 

[kkott]

With the grad transfer rule. I don't see the need to redshirt anyone as a freshman unless they're hurt. Why potentially tie up a scholarship when you can go out and get a 5th year grad transfer who already has experience?

well, as I've tried to point out and I guess you just don't agree, 1 team who bucked the trend won the national title last year. Grabbing a 5th year player goes against the concepts of player development, team building, chemistry, experience within a system, etc... It is a longer payoff, and you'd obviously have to have the confidence that you're program is doing enough for the players that they'll stay, but for at least 1 team last year, developing guys with red shirt years paid off in spades. I think it's obvious that if you're not signing multiple 5 star players each year, one way to counter that is with experience, and redshirting guys might be a viable way to do that, as it was apparently for UVA.

In Race and Jerome we have a couple guys who've had to go that route. Maybe if we can surround them with enough talent and develop our roster, they'll be important pieces to successful teams in another couple years... or maybe they'll be playing elsewhere!

 

[TommyCracker]

It's simply a way to get an edge. Bo Ryan did it all the time, especially with his bigs.

I know most of us and I got to think most players want instant action but the redshirt rules allow you an extra year to get bigger, more experienced, etc and in today's game that's getting younger...it's an edge that's available of you want to exploit it.

Even Secretariat couldn't 3 year old race horses until the middle of his second year. Affirmed won the triple crown and then was beaten soundly by Seattle Slew who was four years old. Then the following season Affirmed beat Spectacular Bid in the Jockey's Cup.

My dumb point as I've said all along...good talented 22 year olds tend to beat very talented 18 year olds.

Bo Ryan knew that and had a lot of of his classic bigs redshirt from Burggerun to Brian Butch to Ethan Happ to Jared Uthoff plus more.