Are you rooting for IU to win tonight...Yes, No, Don't Care*
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Sorry if this ruffles feather, but basically, you're stating you believe...
that to be a fan of a larger entity means you cannot become disenfranchised or have any signs of apathy because of that entity's failures at the leadership level.
So applying your same logic, you could have been born and lived your entire life in Germany in the early 20th century, the only way you could have continued to claim national pride and support for your country would have been to continue to cheer on the Third Reich in their battles against the rest of Europe. I suggest you get to goose-stepping unless you want to be a man without a country who has to change allegiances, and then again if your country stops winning.
Sorry to stick up for being a patriot that theoretically is the reason we all say pledges of allegiance periodically.
Oh, and good to know the underpinnings of blind nationalism are still alive and well.
that to be a fan of a larger entity means you cannot become disenfranchised or have any signs of apathy because of that entity's failures at the leadership level.
So applying your same logic, you could have been born and lived your entire life in Germany in the early 20th century, the only way you could have continued to claim national pride and support for your country would have been to continue to cheer on the Third Reich in their battles against the rest of Europe. I suggest you get to goose-stepping unless you want to be a man without a country who has to change allegiances, and then again if your country stops winning.
Sorry to stick up for being a patriot that theoretically is the reason we all say pledges of allegiance periodically.
Oh, and good to know the underpinnings of blind nationalism are still alive and well.
First of all, the picture of me in full get-up and face paint is up here
somewhere, as is, I believe, and maybe the newbies can find it, the picture of my fat belly painted with the CBS eye to try to get on TV during the 2002 Louisville game, so Cheerleader outfit would be not that big of a deal.
My point is this, can't you really want the team to win and ALSO want them to be Top 5 program AND work to make it known you want the coach fired?
Listen, I can't hurt the team by not buying tickets. I can't show up at functions and bitch at Glass. I can't withold money I already can't afford to donate..
If I stop caring, all I've cost myself is that I care about Indiana Basketball, and that would bring me far more sadness than cheering for a bad team. Maybe it was growing up an SF Giants fan where there was always heartbreak, I don't know. I'm just sick of hearing that somehow the best way for me to be an IU basketball fan would be to never care about a game again, that does make me defensive.
somewhere, as is, I believe, and maybe the newbies can find it, the picture of my fat belly painted with the CBS eye to try to get on TV during the 2002 Louisville game, so Cheerleader outfit would be not that big of a deal.
My point is this, can't you really want the team to win and ALSO want them to be Top 5 program AND work to make it known you want the coach fired?
Listen, I can't hurt the team by not buying tickets. I can't show up at functions and bitch at Glass. I can't withold money I already can't afford to donate..
If I stop caring, all I've cost myself is that I care about Indiana Basketball, and that would bring me far more sadness than cheering for a bad team. Maybe it was growing up an SF Giants fan where there was always heartbreak, I don't know. I'm just sick of hearing that somehow the best way for me to be an IU basketball fan would be to never care about a game again, that does make me defensive.
I guess you have to define....
"not trying at all"....
I read that Smith makes $375,000 annually, before bonuses. I don't know what other non-rev sport coaches get paid, but I have to guess that IUs response might have been along the lines of - ASU is offering him that? WTF? We can't do that, so why bother?
or sumthin.
I do think the new baseball coach, from 200 miles away, seems like he is doing a decent job so far. Am I wrong about him?
"not trying at all"....
I read that Smith makes $375,000 annually, before bonuses. I don't know what other non-rev sport coaches get paid, but I have to guess that IUs response might have been along the lines of - ASU is offering him that? WTF? We can't do that, so why bother?
or sumthin.
I do think the new baseball coach, from 200 miles away, seems like he is doing a decent job so far. Am I wrong about him?
They need to make a coaching change, and if that is contingent on the...
outcome of one or a couple games then our administration is too short-sided and dumb to make the right moves to elevate the program.
So with the outcome of games being immaterial to whether we make a bold move to improve or acquiesce to continued inconsistency/mediocrity, I root for IU. I don't make it the highest priority to watch anymore because it is underwhelming basketball being played and I'm pretty numb to poor performance and other teams making us look foolish just because it's been par for the course. If this mindset makes estrogen-filled gingers question my fandom, then said fatasses are invited to go fvck themselves.
outcome of one or a couple games then our administration is too short-sided and dumb to make the right moves to elevate the program.
So with the outcome of games being immaterial to whether we make a bold move to improve or acquiesce to continued inconsistency/mediocrity, I root for IU. I don't make it the highest priority to watch anymore because it is underwhelming basketball being played and I'm pretty numb to poor performance and other teams making us look foolish just because it's been par for the course. If this mindset makes estrogen-filled gingers question my fandom, then said fatasses are invited to go fvck themselves.
Is he? 3 straight F4s, good recruiter, teams play great defense
Again, I thought there was some story about improper benefits, but don't recall and can't find anything online.
He won his conference, lost in the 1st round of the NCAAs then got canned, must be something more than the fans not coming to games, because they still don't go.
Again, I thought there was some story about improper benefits, but don't recall and can't find anything online.
He won his conference, lost in the 1st round of the NCAAs then got canned, must be something more than the fans not coming to games, because they still don't go.
Yeah, but you're mixing emotion and logic again. My point is that I WANT
the team to win, I can't help it.
During Davis' tenure, I KNEW he was not the best coach for the team, and wanted him gone for a long time, yet I wanted them to win every game, because I couldn't help it.
the team to win, I can't help it.
During Davis' tenure, I KNEW he was not the best coach for the team, and wanted him gone for a long time, yet I wanted them to win every game, because I couldn't help it.
In talking to a friend who's a UCLA fan...
I believe that at first the fanbase thought the sun shone out of Howland's ass. But, he couldn't recruit the top talent to UCLA because of the style of ball he coaches....thinking of Tom Thibs here.....and then the UCLA fanbase started losing fan.
And turning on him...and so started the death spiral....
sound familiar?
I believe that at first the fanbase thought the sun shone out of Howland's ass. But, he couldn't recruit the top talent to UCLA because of the style of ball he coaches....thinking of Tom Thibs here.....and then the UCLA fanbase started losing fan.
And turning on him...and so started the death spiral....
sound familiar?
It just makes you too dense to understand what everyone is telling you.
It's not a real hard concept, but let me try another way.
You're a fan of the SF Giants. If Bruce Bochy came out and said that all opera singers (or whatever it is you sing) are f*gs, dumb, giant gaping *ssholes who deserve to die in mass genocidal gas chambers, how would that affect how you root for the Giants?
I'm guessing that it would lessen the enjoyment of watching the Giants rack up more wins and titles, because you would know that for every success they had some of it would be credited to such a bigot and d1ckhead as the above fictional Bruce Bochy. OTOH, a bunch of homophobic and generally insensitive Giants fans would wildly cheer on the Giants anyways and credit Bruce Bochy with being great as the mastermind of their success.
You may not cheer for them to lose. You may be happy when they win. But deep down inside you are going to be a little peeved that fictional Bochy (the giant d!ckhead) is getting all this credit and succeeding, too. And if the Giants lost a game, because the opposing teams player, who grew up singing opera before taking up baseball, hit a walk off home run, you might even see a bit of justice in that scenario.
Now flip that around to basketball. There are some here, myself included, who value the game of basketball, in general. We care that it is played at a high level. We care that it is played somewhere within a certain broad spectrum of styles and with a broad spectrum of attitudes that we would consider the "right way."
Crean fits now where in that spectrum of coaching basketball so that it is played correctly...to us. It offends our basketball sensibilities. And despite the fact that IU basketball is my favorite team, playing my favorite sport, the fact that it is coached in such a bullsh!t way by such a dipsh!t coach generally kills much of the enjoyment I get from watching IU play basketball.
Still a fan. I just barely care at this point due to Crean.
It's not a real hard concept, but let me try another way.
You're a fan of the SF Giants. If Bruce Bochy came out and said that all opera singers (or whatever it is you sing) are f*gs, dumb, giant gaping *ssholes who deserve to die in mass genocidal gas chambers, how would that affect how you root for the Giants?
I'm guessing that it would lessen the enjoyment of watching the Giants rack up more wins and titles, because you would know that for every success they had some of it would be credited to such a bigot and d1ckhead as the above fictional Bruce Bochy. OTOH, a bunch of homophobic and generally insensitive Giants fans would wildly cheer on the Giants anyways and credit Bruce Bochy with being great as the mastermind of their success.
You may not cheer for them to lose. You may be happy when they win. But deep down inside you are going to be a little peeved that fictional Bochy (the giant d!ckhead) is getting all this credit and succeeding, too. And if the Giants lost a game, because the opposing teams player, who grew up singing opera before taking up baseball, hit a walk off home run, you might even see a bit of justice in that scenario.
Now flip that around to basketball. There are some here, myself included, who value the game of basketball, in general. We care that it is played at a high level. We care that it is played somewhere within a certain broad spectrum of styles and with a broad spectrum of attitudes that we would consider the "right way."
Crean fits now where in that spectrum of coaching basketball so that it is played correctly...to us. It offends our basketball sensibilities. And despite the fact that IU basketball is my favorite team, playing my favorite sport, the fact that it is coached in such a bullsh!t way by such a dipsh!t coach generally kills much of the enjoyment I get from watching IU play basketball.
Still a fan. I just barely care at this point due to Crean.
I'm drinking Habanero Sculpin by Ballast Point tonight.
I'm locked in on that challenge.
Tom who?
I'm locked in on that challenge.
Tom who?
I hope IU wins the rest of its games this season . . .
including winning the national championship.
Whether Crean as coach is a little like whether a particular 5* player chooses Indiana . . . the program's bigger than that, and so long as the program is being served well in all respects, I'm good.
I don't care about Crean enough one way or the other to say that assuring his departure is worth getting beat in any particular game . . .
. . . I always want IU to win, every game, every year so long as we do so with good academic performance by the players and within the rules and ethics of the game. And no matter whether Crean or Mike Davis or Dan Dakich or RMK is coach, well, my team IS on the floor . . .
. . . that said, I draw the line at Sampson.
including winning the national championship.
Whether Crean as coach is a little like whether a particular 5* player chooses Indiana . . . the program's bigger than that, and so long as the program is being served well in all respects, I'm good.
I don't care about Crean enough one way or the other to say that assuring his departure is worth getting beat in any particular game . . .
. . . I always want IU to win, every game, every year so long as we do so with good academic performance by the players and within the rules and ethics of the game. And no matter whether Crean or Mike Davis or Dan Dakich or RMK is coach, well, my team IS on the floor . . .
. . . that said, I draw the line at Sampson.
I've yet to try a chile beer that is good...
at least to me. The sensation of spice heat at the back of the palate just ruins it for me. Every. Time.
Maybe Sculpin nails it, but regardless, you are a better man than me if you enjoy that beverage.
at least to me. The sensation of spice heat at the back of the palate just ruins it for me. Every. Time.
Maybe Sculpin nails it, but regardless, you are a better man than me if you enjoy that beverage.
dude...let's put them side by side
"I also am pleased when the other team takes advantage of IU's rampant stupidity" [what FL said]
DOES NOT EQUAL
"he was happy when we played stupidly" [what you said FL said]
He actually HATES when IU plays stupidly. IU's stupid coach and IU's stupid play is the primary reason he does not enjoy watching IU play basketball right now. He is pleased when he sees the opposing team play smart basketball against IU's stupid play, because he appreciates smart basketball, even if it is played against IU.
You misinterpreted him. You misquoted him. I am not saying that "pleased" and "happy" are not roughly equivalent. You still don't get it.
"I also am pleased when the other team takes advantage of IU's rampant stupidity" [what FL said]
DOES NOT EQUAL
"he was happy when we played stupidly" [what you said FL said]
He actually HATES when IU plays stupidly. IU's stupid coach and IU's stupid play is the primary reason he does not enjoy watching IU play basketball right now. He is pleased when he sees the opposing team play smart basketball against IU's stupid play, because he appreciates smart basketball, even if it is played against IU.
You misinterpreted him. You misquoted him. I am not saying that "pleased" and "happy" are not roughly equivalent. You still don't get it.
Your argument isn't wrong, but you kneccapped yourself (sorry HMP)
with the first analogy,
If Tom Crean came out and said anything like that.......well of course he wouldn't, and it's the kind of straw man argument I'm talking about. I KNOW you don't think anything Tom Crean has ever said, or any coaching decision he has ever made, is anything like the kind of thing you said in that first paragraph. So it's a wasted analogy. Further, I agree with your most everything you posted, except the inference that I could take any satisfaction in seeing my team lose. Here's another example: When the 49ers hired Dennis Erickson, I hated the hire. Hated him the entire time he was the coach, hated the results, hated everything. I still watched on Sunday and wanted them to win every game. Was this logical? I don't know, probably not. I don't and wouldn't expect everyone to feel the same way, nor do I think those who didn't "weren't real fans".
I do get a little peeved when the act of caring, taking ON ITS OWN, is cause for derision, because I think that's nonsense. (See my reply to Ziz for more details on that).
Additionally, my arguing with you, or anyone, doesn't mean I don't understand, or that I'm a "dummy" or "dense". I get it COMPLETELY, and I simply don't agree. I get the arguments people on the other side of the political spectrum make too, but it doesn't mean I agree.
with the first analogy,
If Tom Crean came out and said anything like that.......well of course he wouldn't, and it's the kind of straw man argument I'm talking about. I KNOW you don't think anything Tom Crean has ever said, or any coaching decision he has ever made, is anything like the kind of thing you said in that first paragraph. So it's a wasted analogy. Further, I agree with your most everything you posted, except the inference that I could take any satisfaction in seeing my team lose. Here's another example: When the 49ers hired Dennis Erickson, I hated the hire. Hated him the entire time he was the coach, hated the results, hated everything. I still watched on Sunday and wanted them to win every game. Was this logical? I don't know, probably not. I don't and wouldn't expect everyone to feel the same way, nor do I think those who didn't "weren't real fans".
I do get a little peeved when the act of caring, taking ON ITS OWN, is cause for derision, because I think that's nonsense. (See my reply to Ziz for more details on that).
Additionally, my arguing with you, or anyone, doesn't mean I don't understand, or that I'm a "dummy" or "dense". I get it COMPLETELY, and I simply don't agree. I get the arguments people on the other side of the political spectrum make too, but it doesn't mean I agree.
Peegs Woulda Made Andy Move This Thread to the Hoops Board
because basketball talk belongs on the basketball boards
hotness belongs on the OTF
basketball hotness goes here:
because basketball talk belongs on the basketball boards
hotness belongs on the OTF
basketball hotness goes here:
Not really, look at his teams, they were always stacked
In fact, Alford won last year with them and now he is struggling.
There are a ton of guys in the NBA from the Howland era, Kevin Love, Russell Westbrook, Arron Affalo, Darren Collison, Jrue Holiday, Shabazz Muhammad and several more.
In fact, Alford won last year with them and now he is struggling.
There are a ton of guys in the NBA from the Howland era, Kevin Love, Russell Westbrook, Arron Affalo, Darren Collison, Jrue Holiday, Shabazz Muhammad and several more.
Here's an excerpt from an article I was looking at:
Indiana took a big swing at keeping Smith, offering an extension that
would give him security for a decade. ASU put a five-year contract on
the table with a base salary of $375,000 - almost twice that of former
coach Tim Esmay - and requisite performance/academic bonus
opportunities. "I will always love Indiana, but this was a logical next
step," Smith said. "It wasn't about money."
Validates what you said, but also said that IU made an effort to keep him around.
I also read that Smith's base salary at IU was $200,000. So, guessing that making the College World Series triggered a large ass bonus, which skewed the total salary number.
He is still likely to make more cash at ASU than at IU.
Smith ASU article
Indiana took a big swing at keeping Smith, offering an extension that
would give him security for a decade. ASU put a five-year contract on
the table with a base salary of $375,000 - almost twice that of former
coach Tim Esmay - and requisite performance/academic bonus
opportunities. "I will always love Indiana, but this was a logical next
step," Smith said. "It wasn't about money."
Validates what you said, but also said that IU made an effort to keep him around.
I also read that Smith's base salary at IU was $200,000. So, guessing that making the College World Series triggered a large ass bonus, which skewed the total salary number.
He is still likely to make more cash at ASU than at IU.
Smith ASU article
Nice talking points. And I would like to make an open apology ...
... on behalf of those of us with the only intelligent mindset on these boards. I'm sorry that the rest of you are so faq-checking retarded.
... on behalf of those of us with the only intelligent mindset on these boards. I'm sorry that the rest of you are so faq-checking retarded.
But they didn't stick around...
and then that well started to dry up.
I seem to recall that most of those recruits were there in his early tenure there. Might be my memory is faulty, but I think he started to swing and miss more in the later years.
and then that well started to dry up.
I seem to recall that most of those recruits were there in his early tenure there. Might be my memory is faulty, but I think he started to swing and miss more in the later years.
Surly Fiery Hell is really good.
Just the right amount of heat. Mrs. O and I took Little O and his buddy to Surly's new brewpub back in January, and Fiery Hell was on tap. Nice heat, not overwhelming. Little O and his buddy wanted to buy a keg (for reelz). Thankfully, not available, or I would've been rolling a keg of Fiery Hell out to the car.
Habanero Sculpin has me ..... concerned, because from what I've read, it's H-O-T. I absolutely LOVE spicy stuff, but I'm not sure about a beer that is super spicy hot. We'll see. I know this - Sculpin is one of my favorite IPA's, and Grapefruit Sculpin was tremendous.
The Abrasive package will be headed your way tomorrow. The last 2 weeks have been challenging, but I am BACK, BABY!!!
Just the right amount of heat. Mrs. O and I took Little O and his buddy to Surly's new brewpub back in January, and Fiery Hell was on tap. Nice heat, not overwhelming. Little O and his buddy wanted to buy a keg (for reelz). Thankfully, not available, or I would've been rolling a keg of Fiery Hell out to the car.
Habanero Sculpin has me ..... concerned, because from what I've read, it's H-O-T. I absolutely LOVE spicy stuff, but I'm not sure about a beer that is super spicy hot. We'll see. I know this - Sculpin is one of my favorite IPA's, and Grapefruit Sculpin was tremendous.
The Abrasive package will be headed your way tomorrow. The last 2 weeks have been challenging, but I am BACK, BABY!!!
Shabazz was prep player of the year in 2012
Did got talent and teams played well. The firing never made sense to me unless there was something shady going on.
LA loves "showtime", but Howland was more defense orientated. That's why the Alford hiring was puzzling to me.
This post was edited on 3/13 12:29 PM by Tony Warwick
Interesting Howland article from Feb LA Times
Did got talent and teams played well. The firing never made sense to me unless there was something shady going on.
LA loves "showtime", but Howland was more defense orientated. That's why the Alford hiring was puzzling to me.
This post was edited on 3/13 12:29 PM by Tony Warwick
Interesting Howland article from Feb LA Times
I believe that a Chile Hunter is in the works as one of the future
Hunter series releases from 18th St.
If anyone can do it and make it work, 18th can. Like you, I hate coconut. But their Hunter coconut was excellent. I couldn't believe I liked it, but there you go.
Speaking of 18th St - I've been busy as hell lately, too, but I've got a bomber of Grapefruit Dead with your name on it, and I'll fill out the box with something else from there....maybe a barleywine? Do you like barleywines?
(They haven't released anything in cans lately because they are moving their canning line next door and it isn't back up and running just yet. So, its bottles or nothing.)
Hunter series releases from 18th St.
If anyone can do it and make it work, 18th can. Like you, I hate coconut. But their Hunter coconut was excellent. I couldn't believe I liked it, but there you go.
Speaking of 18th St - I've been busy as hell lately, too, but I've got a bomber of Grapefruit Dead with your name on it, and I'll fill out the box with something else from there....maybe a barleywine? Do you like barleywines?
(They haven't released anything in cans lately because they are moving their canning line next door and it isn't back up and running just yet. So, its bottles or nothing.)
You assume wrong...
Of course the CWS triggered bonuses...but not 428k of bonuses.
He was handsomely compensated. And didn't leave because of money.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Of course the CWS triggered bonuses...but not 428k of bonuses.
He was handsomely compensated. And didn't leave because of money.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
And that was the reason Howland was fired?
Lots of star players are "messed up".
I remember seeing a pic of Howland playing beer pong with Shabazz (under age at the time) at some party on campus. That seemed odd to me, but not grounds for dismissal.
Lots of star players are "messed up".
I remember seeing a pic of Howland playing beer pong with Shabazz (under age at the time) at some party on campus. That seemed odd to me, but not grounds for dismissal.
I purposefully used hyperbole and tailored the scenario to you, to
make a point. It's called an analogy.
I (many of us, in fact) think about basketball differently than you (and other portions of the fanbase) do.*
If Crean came out and said all people who are from a small town (I am), think they know something about basketball (I do), and are lawyers (I am) deserve to be sodomized with martha's broom and die in a giant tire fire, I would be less offended than the offense I take to how he runs the program.
He could personally insult me, my ancestry, and my friends before every game. But if he were a top 3 coaching genius, I would care more in that scenario than I do now.
The name calling, you will have to get over. Nobody thinks you're truly dumb, but...it's the OTF...and Friday. Some traditions must survive.
*fwiw, I feel like you do today towards soccer. I turn on the WC and cheer for the US. I'm not a purist in any sense. They could pick the balls up and throw them through the nets with their hands for all I care. Formations and strategy (of which Im largely ignorant) matter little. I just hope they win.
.
make a point. It's called an analogy.
I (many of us, in fact) think about basketball differently than you (and other portions of the fanbase) do.*
If Crean came out and said all people who are from a small town (I am), think they know something about basketball (I do), and are lawyers (I am) deserve to be sodomized with martha's broom and die in a giant tire fire, I would be less offended than the offense I take to how he runs the program.
He could personally insult me, my ancestry, and my friends before every game. But if he were a top 3 coaching genius, I would care more in that scenario than I do now.
The name calling, you will have to get over. Nobody thinks you're truly dumb, but...it's the OTF...and Friday. Some traditions must survive.
*fwiw, I feel like you do today towards soccer. I turn on the WC and cheer for the US. I'm not a purist in any sense. They could pick the balls up and throw them through the nets with their hands for all I care. Formations and strategy (of which Im largely ignorant) matter little. I just hope they win.
.
Since name calling is OK (which is fine), you are a dumb @ss for
literally, and yes I mean LITERALLY, defining an analogy as LITERALLY the opposite of the actual definition of analogy.
Your Martha's Broom analogy, actually is both an analogy and hyperbole, so +1 there. Freud, and probably Cap, would have a field day with the amount of times you brought up sodomy, f@gs, etc, in your attempt to lob insults......just sayin'.
literally, and yes I mean LITERALLY, defining an analogy as LITERALLY the opposite of the actual definition of analogy.
Your Martha's Broom analogy, actually is both an analogy and hyperbole, so +1 there. Freud, and probably Cap, would have a field day with the amount of times you brought up sodomy, f@gs, etc, in your attempt to lob insults......just sayin'.
Going to be frank, O. I thought that beer was terrible.
It's got heat, and it's not at all a pleasant heat.
The Grapefruit Sculpin, however, was a damn delight. I think you posted about that one a couple times, and I really appreciate the recommendation.
It's got heat, and it's not at all a pleasant heat.
The Grapefruit Sculpin, however, was a damn delight. I think you posted about that one a couple times, and I really appreciate the recommendation.
he was fired because he lost a ton of games.
His last four years they lost a lot of games. There were player issues:
http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncb/story/_/id/7629031/ucla-bruins-coach-ben-howland-lost-control-highly-recruited-players-according-report[/URL]
His last four years they lost a lot of games. There were player issues:
http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncb/story/_/id/7629031/ucla-bruins-coach-ben-howland-lost-control-highly-recruited-players-according-report[/URL]
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