Are this season's results so far changing your opinion on CTC's coaching?

[FL33]

Not mine. I've never thought he was as incompetent as many on here say, and we are beating teams we should beat, but frankly, even at that, these results are surprising me; especially given how inept we looked early.

I think FrankTGucker is right, we're going to be stuck with CTC after this season and possibly for a few more. Unless, he is tired of the gig and I don't see that happening.

He has a fringe top 25 team with top 5 talent. Why am I supposed to be impressed?

It baffles me that Calbert could ever be in an inferior basketball position to somebody like Crean. I can't work for somebody I don't respect, and there's no way I would have been able to respect Crean if I was Calbert.

I saw that clip, and it looked like Peegs was rebounding for Crean. I can't imagine being Mike and kissing Crean's butt: I have no idea why he does. If I was Mike, I would have gone the route of the UM blog that helped get rid of Hoke a long time ago.

What? Are you kidding me? Calbert didn't want to put in the effort or couldn't deal with Crean's intensity?!? I've grown to now conclude that working hard, but stupid (e.g., Crean) is way worse than being lazy. Working hard but stupid leads to crazy wasted resources (which we know is the case based on the spending that we do on our basketball program versus the return). Working hard is not necessarily something we should celebrate. Crean works like an idiot wasting a ton of time and money. He lacks focus, and does not know how to manage.

This...both of them.

In his career Calbert has been associated with, as a player or in his coaching career, the following: Bobby Knight, Rick Pitino, Jerry Sloan, Don Nelson, Mike Montgomery, and Jerry West. I'm sure there are others--all way more intense and knowledgeable about basketball than old two tone tan tommy--that I am forgetting.

The notion that some f***stick like Crean is too intense for Calbert is so f***ing laughable that it could only originate on these boards. Jesus....

 

[kkott]

He has a fringe top 25 team with top 5 talent. Why am I supposed to be impressed?





This...both of them.

In his career Calbert has been associated with, as a player or in his coaching career, the following: Bobby Knight, Rick Pitino, Jerry Sloan, Don Nelson, Mike Montgomery, and Jerry West. I'm sure there are others--all way more intense and knowledgeable about basketball than old two tone tan tommy--that I am forgetting.

The notion that some f***stick like Crean is too intense for Calbert is so f***ing laughable that it could only originate on these boards. Jesus....

Not sure I agree with top 5 talent, but I would say top 10. We have a great starting 5, but no true backup at PG and limited depth up front. All things that are on Crean for sure, but I don't think this is a top 5 roster top to bottom.

 

[booyah31183]

First of all, Crean is an intense guy. You can accuse him of many things, but you can never accuse him of not being a hard worker. I loved Calbert and the guy is a legend and should be treated as such, but I don't think he matched Crean's intensity or agreed with his coaching style and that led to him looking for greener pastures.

We've all heard the stories of how CTC works long hours and is a 'hard worker.' I'd prefer a smart worker that gets the job done over a hard worker that spins his wheels and goes nowhere. Maybe Cheaney would've been willing to meet CTC's demands if CTC wasn't such a clown coach.

 

[Timmy!]

It baffles me that Calbert could ever be in an inferior basketball position to somebody like Crean. I can't work for somebody I don't respect, and there's no way I would have been able to respect Crean if I was Calbert.

I saw that clip, and it looked like Peegs was rebounding for Crean. I can't imagine being Mike and kissing Crean's butt: I have no idea why he does. If I was Mike, I would have gone the route of the UM blog that helped get rid of Hoke a long time ago.

YES. Agreed x's 100. For months now, ever since the UM movement that sparked Hoke's removal (and replaced by Jim Harbaugh, no less), I've been wondering if and how it would be possible to do something similar for IU. Is there's anything we can do as paying members of this site to elicit some sort of movement with an objective to get Tom Crean ousted as head basketball coach at IU?? And if a turns out a byproduct of such a maneuver means Fred Glass would have to go in the process, well, all the better. Primary objective being Crean's removal, of course. Not joking.

If not, I suppose a secondary course of action would be to get 100,000 signatures on an online petition on that "We the People - White House" website demanding the removal of Tom Crean as head coach of the Indiana University men's basketball program. This way the White House would obligated to publicly address the petition with an official statement. Obviously, there's nothing the United States government could or would do to make that change happen, but the sheer publicity of it all and the embarrassment it would cause the IU administration would make it impossible for the administration to ignore. Not joking about this one either.

Thoughts anyone?

 

[chris007]

I roomed with guys that were close with or former teammates of Cheaney's at Harrison. Through that group of friends, I eard Calbert's version of his departure.

Crean made it out to be that Calbert didn't want to put in the work to be an assistant. Calbert felt Crean ignored his assistant's advice, especially in regards to recruiting. He also felt Crean would never let him be an assistant at IU.

For someone who didn't want to be an assistant, according to Crean, Calbert sure jumped on the job offer from Jim Crews. Bear the following in mind, when Calbert came back to Bloomington, he had every intention of keeping his kids in town until they graduated.

This is partially correct. Crean doesn't listen to his assistants very well and never listened to what CC had to say. CC did a very nice break down of how to beat Syracuse zone & Crean said that's great but were not using it. Crean also at the time had a rule if he is in AH than all coaches have to be there. Well as DoB CC didn't have a lot of work to do so he didn't feel he should have to stay there just because Crean was there.

Now the part that is incorrect is Calbert's wife doesn't like Bloomington & never lived here. They had a place on the north side of Indy which she & the kids lived. He had a condo down here that he spent time in but she wasn't ever going to move here. Just my two cents that I know from speaking to the source.

 

[IUecho87]

This is partially correct. Crean doesn't listen to his assistants very well and never listened to what CC had to say. CC did a very nice break down of how to beat Syracuse zone & Crean said that's great but were not using it. Crean also at the time had a rule if he is in AH than all coaches have to be there. Well as DoB CC didn't have a lot of work to do so he didn't feel he should have to stay there just because Crean was there.

Now the part that is incorrect is Calbert's wife doesn't like Bloomington & never lived here. They had a place on the north side of Indy which she & the kids lived. He had a condo down here that he spent time in but she wasn't ever going to move here. Just my two cents that I know from speaking to the source.

I'm so glad Crean trumped in favor of his brilliant plan against SU.....what an obnoxious arrogant a$$hole.

 

[Foosier]

YES. Agreed x's 100. For months now, ever since the UM movement that sparked Hoke's removal (and replaced by Jim Harbaugh, no less), I've been wondering if and how it would be possible to do something similar for IU. Is there's anything we can do as paying members of this site to elicit some sort of movement with an objective to get Tom Crean ousted as head basketball coach at IU?? And if a turns out a byproduct of such a maneuver means Fred Glass would have to go in the process, well, all the better. Primary objective being Crean's removal, of course. Not joking.

If not, I suppose a secondary course of action would be to get 100,000 signatures on an online petition on that "We the People - White House" website demanding the removal of Tom Crean as head coach of the Indiana University men's basketball program. This way the White House would obligated to publicly address the petition with an official statement. Obviously, there's nothing the United States government could or would do to make that change happen, but the sheer publicity of it all and the embarrassment it would cause the IU administration would make it impossible for the administration to ignore. Not joking about this one either.

Thoughts anyone?

Talk about working stupid. You want the White House to address Tom Crean. Don't the idiot politicians in Washington have better things to do than address the desires of a basketball fan base. Why waste your time and their time for something that means nothing?

 

[IUecho87]

Talk about working stupid. You want the White House to address Tom Crean. Don't the idiot politicians in Washington have better things to do than address the desires of a basketball fan base. Why waste your time and their time for something that means nothing?

I'm not advocating.....but they did give enough chits about the MLB/steroid issue.

 

[Timmy!]

Talk about working stupid. You want the White House to address Tom Crean. Don't the idiot politicians in Washington have better things to do than address the desires of a basketball fan base. Why waste your time and their time for something that means nothing?

Personally, I wouldn't spend any time on taking an initiative to get something like this going, nor did I ever state that I would, but f someone else wants to go for it...I wouldn't mind. Also, it wouldn't waste a shred of time from any White House official of significance or even anyone of insignificance from the White House for that matter. Some low level White House interim would address it with a 1 or 2 sentence response. It wouldn't actually be taken seriously under any condition. It would be entirely harmless. For example, there's a petition out there right now that gathered 220,000 + online signatures in like 4 days asking for President Obama to make an appearance on Bill Maher's HBO show, Real Time. An interim will take 30 seconds to post a response based on what his bosses bosses boss says. Which will be "Thanks, but no thanks". And it's not like this is actually going to happen but if it did it would attract publicity because social media would eat it up. And if it turned out to be enough to move the needle and helps serve as a means to an end, hey, all the better.

 

[burnthemallralphie]

I didn't hear the part about the zone thing, at all. I heard from his former teammates the final beef with Crean was specifically over recruiting, though I'd rather believe your story. If you are one of the Harrison guys, I probably know you.

All I know is my favorite all-time Hoosier, a guy I first watched when he was a soph in high school is no longer coaching with his alma mater is gone.

This was in response to Chris007. The ****ING quote feature isn't working. Suck my ass, Rivals.

 

[crimsonlaw]

For the life of me I can't understand why Mike seemingly caves to what the administration wants. Granted, I'm on the outside looking in, but I can't help but think Mike has a great deal of influence because of what this site used to be. We've seen it done at Michigan and we've seen it done at Texas. I also don't get the argument that he'd lose access. One, I don't understand what access he has. Does he break stories that others do not? I'm trying to recall the last "insider" information this site broke. Two, Crean isn't going to cut off access. Imagine the shitstorm he'd face, because, one would think this site has a great deal of sway. Anyway, I still come on the AOTF, but I don't pay money anymore, and I hardly visit the other forums. And I certainly don't spend as much time on here as I used to.

 

[T.M.P.]

Not sure I agree with top 5 talent, .

Name five more talented teams. Yes it can be done and argued. Especially with JB out. So, name 10. Not competent, but talented. Not a contest of who's right and wrong, but more an exercise in perspective. We have top talent. Have our results equalled that talent?

 

[Tammany Hall]

I'm very nervous Fred finds an excuse to keep Crean. We have a lot of fans celebrating being ranked again. Honestly the standards around IUBB are abysmal.

The last thing we need is to waste ANOTHER year with Crean. Our recruiting isn't very good. Next year we'll be a bit less talented, run up some shitty non-conference wins, finish around 5th in the B1G, not have a chance at the tournament, and not be building towards anything. Apathy will continue to spread, and that is probably the worst part.

 

[dusto nomo]

I'm very nervous Fred finds an excuse to keep Crean. We have a lot of fans celebrating being ranked again. Honestly the standards around IUBB are abysmal.

The last thing we need is to waste ANOTHER year with Crean. Our recruiting isn't very good. Next year we'll be a bit less talented, run up some shitty non-conference wins, finish around 5th in the B1G, not have a chance at the tournament, and not be building towards anything. Apathy will continue to spread, and that is probably the worst part.

Even worse is the '17 class is loaded with Indiana talent...and we won't get any of it b/c the coaches/parents see right thru the charleton. If and for that reason is justification to jettison this clown and his $700K recruiting budget.

 

[Tammany Hall]

Yea. Without the "bring Indiana back" pitch + his mediocre reputation around the state, it's unlikely we capitalize on the big 2017 class.

And that leads me back to how easy the IU job is. Great recruits all over the state, premier facilities, huge fanbase, huge budget, nice campus, good academics, and tradition. ALL OF THAT IS AVAILABLE AND ALMOST NO OTHER SCHOOLS HAVE IT.

Yet here we are, wasting almost all of that, as IUBB shows no signs of becoming a top-10 program.

 

[IU40IU]

Even worse is the '17 class is loaded with Indiana talent...and we won't get any of it b/c the coaches/parents see right thru the charleton. If and for that reason is justification to jettison this clown and his $700K recruiting budget.

On a more important note, I am mesmerized by your sig pic. That. is. awesome.

 

[chris007]

I didn't hear the part about the zone thing, at all. I heard from his former teammates the final beef with Crean was specifically over recruiting, though I'd rather believe your story. If you are one of the Harrison guys, I probably know you.

All I know is my favorite all-time Hoosier, a guy I first watched when he was a soph in high school is no longer coaching with his alma mater is gone.

This was in response to Chris007. The ****ING quote feature isn't working. Suck my ass, Rivals.

Not a Evansville guy but just know the Cheaney's pretty well. You are also correct they did beef about recruiting. Also CC & Kenny Johnson used to try to get Crean to play a style that fit the team better. More full court pressing and things but he didn't want to hear what they had to say.

 

[T.M.P.]

YES. Agreed x's 100. For months now, ever since the UM movement that sparked Hoke's removal (and replaced by Jim Harbaugh, no less), I've been wondering if and how it would be possible to do something similar for IU. Is there's anything we can do as paying members of this site to elicit some sort of movement with an objective to get Tom Crean ousted as head basketball coach at IU?? And if a turns out a byproduct of such a maneuver means Fred Glass would have to go in the process, well, all the better. Primary objective being Crean's removal, of course. Not joking.

If not, I suppose a secondary course of action would be to get 100,000 signatures on an online petition on that "We the People - White House" website demanding the removal of Tom Crean as head coach of the Indiana University men's basketball program. This way the White House would obligated to publicly address the petition with an official statement. Obviously, there's nothing the United States government could or would do to make that change happen, but the sheer publicity of it all and the embarrassment it would cause the IU administration would make it impossible for the administration to ignore. Not joking about this one either.

Thoughts anyone?

Start it and we will sign it.

 

[Timmy!]

Yea. Without the "bring Indiana back" pitch + his mediocre reputation around the state, it's unlikely we capitalize on the big 2017 class.

And that leads me back to how easy the IU job is. Great recruits all over the state, premier facilities, huge fanbase, huge budget, nice campus, good academics, and tradition. ALL OF THAT IS AVAILABLE AND ALMOST NO OTHER SCHOOLS HAVE IT.

Yet here we are, wasting almost all of that, as IUBB shows no signs of becoming a top-10 program.

Yup, exactly. Couldn't have said it better myself. This perfectly summarizes how and why the IU program has one of the highest, if not the highest ceiling of any college basketball program in the country. It's thoroughly maddening that, at least as of a couple years ago, every season with Tom Crean at the helm is yet another season wasted. For we stand no chance of realizing the incredible potential the IU program has with Tommy Boy running the show.

What's also quite frustrating that there are still so many Indiana fans out there (too many, in fact) that either can't or refuse to even try and grasp what they're missing out on with Indiana Hoosier basketball with Mr. McClaps-A-Lot running the show. It's almost as if this particular set of fans has been brainwashed into accepting a false premise. One in which Indiana isn't an elite destination and that we should be content with just making the tourney more often than not, sprinkled in with an 1st rd win here and there, and a chance to claim sweet 16 appearance (not a win, just an appearance) every 3 to 5 years or so to watch the fellas collect their sweet 16 appearance rings. Simply pathetic!

It's a loser's mentality, and like I said, it stems from this unquantifiable false premise that IU basketball these days is a nice quaint little basketball program, and we should be happy with just seeing slightly moderate (if that even) success every once and a while. A self-fulfilling prophecy, if you will. The whole thing chaps my ass. Get Crean outta here already. PLEASE!

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I don't like the Hoke thing. Fans should have their voices heard and vote with their asses. But if they go too far (change.org petition?), they risk giving the job a reputation as one coaches want to stay the hell away from.

It's a fine line we gotta walk. But the point is, while showing our displeasure at CTC, we don't want to go so far that the next guy bulks because he thinks we won't give him a chance.

 

[mike41703]

we don't want to go so far that the next guy bulks

Force him to overeat??

 

[hozo4ultimate]

Not a Evansville guy but just know the Cheaney's pretty well. You are also correct they did beef about recruiting. Also CC & Kenny Johnson used to try to get Crean to play a style that fit the team better. More full court pressing and things but he didn't want to hear what they had to say.

I bet the Cheaneys are pretty pumped that you are on a message board talking about Calbert's previous job/boss.

The whole thing seemed odd. CC came to IU and discovered he didn't want to work with Crean?

 

[Timmy!]

I don't like the Hoke thing. Fans should have their voices heard and vote with their asses. But if they go too far (change.org petition?), they risk giving the job a reputation as one coaches want to stay the hell away from.

It's a fine line we gotta walk. But the point is, while showing our displeasure at CTC, we don't want to go so far that the next guy bulks because he thinks we won't give him a chance.

Valid point. An understandable concern to with which I agree. But those unwanted results could potentially be neutralized. I believe a high-road approach could easily be attained. Perhaps a website and/or a Facebook page could be created in conjunction with kicking things off. Something that clearly and eloquently explains the reasons for the initiative/petition. But before even getting to the eloquently expressed objective of the initiative/petition one could begin by expressing words of kindness, almost even reverence towards CTC. It can be respectfully and tastefully done. One could kick off the "mission statement" by highlighting some of coach Crean's good qualities and commend him for his "achievements" at IU. Achievements such as taking a gutted program and taking it from point A to point B before segueing into"With that all said, as painful as it is for me/us to say this, I/we feel it is in the best interests of the program to move forward in a different direction" ....and all that jazz.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

I don't like the Hoke thing. Fans should have their voices heard and vote with their asses. But if they go too far (change.org petition?), they risk giving the job a reputation as one coaches want to stay the hell away from.

It's a fine line we gotta walk. But the point is, while showing our displeasure at CTC, we don't want to go so far that the next guy bulks because he thinks we won't give him a chance.

After 8 years, I think Crean has had as much of a chance as any blue blood would offer. If anything, I think coaches would view IU fans as overly patient. I also think it is expected that fans are going to be passionate and kind of crazy at a blue blood, and it is this support that helps make the job a great coaching job.

IU fans have broken out the pitchforks and torches before: there were thousands that protested when Knight was fired, and, from what I have heard, things got ugly towards the end of the Lou Watson tenure. I wouldn't go this far, but I don't see anything wrong with a peaceful protest outside of Assembly Hall, at the Courthouse, Sample Gates, etc. I'm sure one could get hundreds from this site alone for a protest.

 

[The one and only ACE]

I was at the game last night and tried to figure out what offense we were running the whole time.

I couldn't.

That's because you only know one type of offense....Butler style.

 

[Tammany Hall]

Yup, exactly. Couldn't have said it better myself. This perfectly summarizes how and why the IU program has one of the highest, if not the highest ceiling of any college basketball program in the country. It's thoroughly maddening that, at least as of a couple years ago, every season with Tom Crean at the helm is yet another season wasted. For we stand no chance of realizing the incredible potential the IU program has with Tommy Boy running the show.

What's also quite frustrating that there are still so many Indiana fans out there (too many, in fact) that either can't or refuse to even try and grasp what they're missing out on with Indiana Hoosier basketball with Mr. McClaps-A-Lot running the show. It's almost as if this particular set of fans has been brainwashed into accepting a false premise. One in which Indiana isn't an elite destination and that we should be content with just making the tourney more often than not, sprinkled in with an 1st rd win here and there, and a chance to claim sweet 16 appearance (not a win, just an appearance) every 3 to 5 years or so to watch the fellas collect their sweet 16 appearance rings. Simply pathetic!

It's a loser's mentality, and like I said, it stems from this unquantifiable false premise that IU basketball these days is a nice quaint little basketball program, and we should be happy with just seeing slightly moderate (if that even) success every once and a while. A self-fulfilling prophecy, if you will. The whole thing chaps my ass. Get Crean outta here already. PLEASE!

Precisely. Our last 20 years have been a disaster because of bad coaches, not because IU is a "quaint little basketball program". Despite our run of crappy coaches, the resources available to the IUBB coach are top-5 in the country. We just need someone to maximize them.

 

[The one and only ACE]

Key thing about our 6-0 start. Our average opponent is about 13 points worse than Iowa's average opponent. You spot each of our opponents 13 points, and we are 2-4.

With our talent, we shouldn't just be beating all these teams. We should be demolishing them. Our schedule hasn't just been easy, it's been embarrassingly easy.

So, actually, our performance has confirmed what I thought of CTC's coaching: he coaches good players down to mediocrity.

C'mon Goat. Don't just go along with the OTF. Even you have said IU has been a lot more fun to watch. Coach has them playing better D and with a hell of a lot more passion. We are quick to jump on when things are not going well, but have to be willing to give props when deserved.

 

[Zizkov]

C'mon Goat. Don't just go along with the OTF. Even you have said IU has been a lot more fun to watch. Coach has them playing better D and with a hell of a lot more passion. We are quick to jump on when things are not going well, but have to be willing to give props when deserved.

IU has top ten talent and is barely squeaking into the top 25 because of the most ridiculously easy BT schedule in modern times.

The Crean end of the season crash and burn will be here soon enough.

Go back and look at posts from one year ago, things were looking great then too. The fact remains that when CTC has to go up against good coaches in pressure situations, he shits the bed more often then not.

 

[mike41703]

IU has top ten talent and is barely squeaking into the top 25 because of the most ridiculously easy BT schedule in modern times.

The Crean end of the season crash and burn will be here soon enough.

Go back and look at posts from one year ago, things were looking great then too. The fact remains that when CTC has to go up against good coaches in pressure situations, he shits the bed more often then not.

You are damn right. I'm astonished at the number of people(mostly premies) that are taking the bait. Did I enjoy the Illinois game? Yes. Did I enjoy the O$U game? Yes. Do we have a snowball's chance in hell at finishing strong? Fk no. We've played some young, injure-ridden, talent deprived sub-100 historically awful B1G teams and are thumping our chests? Giving the clown props? Jesus.

 

[Rakkasan29]

...because of the most ridiculously easy BT schedule in modern times.

This is absolutely correct. And it really is just as simple as that.

As I said in a previous post...if Indiana had to play Iowa's current B1G schedule up to this point, Crean might have already been fired by now.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

C'mon Goat. Don't just go along with the OTF. Even you have said IU has been a lot more fun to watch. Coach has them playing better D and with a hell of a lot more passion. We are quick to jump on when things are not going well, but have to be willing to give props when deserved.

Huh? I have given props up to the point they are deserved. I have also repeatedly reminded people that our undefeated start is an illusion. Our performance overall is that of an above-average B1G team. That's an improvement over how we played early, but still an underperformance compared to our talent.

 

[The one and only ACE]

Huh? I have given props up to the point they are deserved. I have also repeatedly reminded people that our undefeated start is an illusion. Our performance overall is that of an above-average B1G team. That's an improvement over how we played early, but still an underperformance compared to our talent.

I know you have. Without JBJ's 15 pts. per game and rebounds, I feel we are playing very well. I, too, agree the undefeated record is deceiving. But...hell...they have been fun to watch lately.

 

[kkott]

Name five more talented teams. Yes it can be done and argued. Especially with JB out. So, name 10. Not competent, but talented. Not a contest of who's right and wrong, but more an exercise in perspective. We have top talent. Have our results equalled that talent?

UNC, Kansas, UK, MD, Nova, Duke, OK off the top of my head. Gets murky beyond that, but I said not top 5 but maybe top 10, and those would put us as the 8th best roster. Of course Duke and UK are performing worse than us now, but I think both of those are more talented, and highly rated, rosters.

 

[FL33]

UNC, Kansas, UK, MD, Nova, Duke, OK off the top of my head. Gets murky beyond that, but I said not top 5 but maybe top 10, and those would put us as the 8th best roster. Of course Duke and UK are performing worse than us now, but I think both of those are more talented, and highly rated, rosters.

MD, OK, and Nova are stretching it.

So...some where between 4th and 8th most talent. Yay....go Crean

 

[Stuffshot]

Key thing about our 6-0 start. Our average opponent is about 13 points worse than Iowa's average opponent. You spot each of our opponents 13 points, and we are 2-4.

With our talent, we shouldn't just be beating all these teams. We should be demolishing them. Our schedule hasn't just been easy, it's been embarrassingly easy.

So, actually, our performance has confirmed what I thought of CTC's coaching: he coaches good players down to mediocrity.

How is this post supported by your current statistical project?

As written, the conclusion that coaching is mediocre originates with someone's subjective opinion that our players' talent is high, rather than complete objectivity from a statistic analysis.

I don't automatically accept the suggestion that we can just average some scores of ours and other teams' games, add 13 points to past scores of our opponents without changing any other factor of those past games and then say we would have a 2-4 record if we had played Iowa's opponents (too many other variables). Reminds me of saying that since IU beat Illinois and illinois beat Purdue therefore IU will beat Purdue.

For example, Ohio State was virtually tied with Purdue last night until about the last two minutes of the game and in fact led Purdue much of the game. The final score did not reflect the competence or incompetence of coaching throughout the entire game.

 

[Stuffshot]

Not sure I agree with top 5 talent, but I would say top 10. We have a great starting 5, but no true backup at PG and limited depth up front. All things that are on Crean for sure, but I don't think this is a top 5 roster top to bottom.

I don't either. I know Bryant, Blackmon and Ferrell were recruited highly in different years but I just can't recall whether any of the others were so recruited.

 

[Stuffshot]

I'm not advocating.....but they did give enough chits about the MLB/steroid issue.

There are a lot of national tax and antitrust issues entangled with baseball, to say nothing of drug use.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

How is this post supported by your current statistical project?

As written, the conclusion that coaching is mediocre originates with someone's subjective opinion that our players' talent is high, rather than complete objectivity from a statistic analysis.

I don't automatically accept the suggestion that we can just average some scores of ours and other teams' games, add 13 points to past scores of our opponents without changing any other factor of those past games and then say we would have a 2-4 record if we had played Iowa's opponents (too many other variables). Reminds me of saying that since IU beat Illinois and illinois beat Purdue therefore IU will beat Purdue.

For example, Ohio State was virtually tied with Purdue last night until about the last two minutes of the game and in fact led Purdue much of the game. The final score did not reflect the competence or incompetence of coaching throughout the entire game.

It's a combination. My statistical analysis is objective, and shows us to be about the 4th best team in the B1G, record be damned. But my position on Crean does require the assumption that we have one of the most talented teams in the country. And I don't have stats to back that assumption up; I rely on the analysis of others for that.

The 13-point thing isn't because I think we'd go exactly 2-4 against Iowa's schedule. It was just to illustrate just how wide the gap between their SOS and ours is, because everyone admits we've had an easy schedule so far, but very few people seem to appreciate just how phenomenally easy it's been. That's all. I was just making a colorful point.

As for coaching, well, you can't figure out what is and isn't a coach's fault looking at a box score. At the end of the season, all you can do is look at your performance, and ask if it met your expectations. History suggests to me that Crean's teams rarely, if ever, match expectations. It's the pattern you blame on the coach. You don't need to quibble about specifics. The pattern is there, and the coach owns that.

 

[T.M.P.]

Gets murky beyond that

so it's arguable?

Ugh fwiw I'm thinking we have more talent than Oklahoma and Villanova. They just currently have better teams.

 

[Stuffshot]

It's a combination. My statistical analysis is objective, and shows us to be about the 4th best team in the B1G, record be damned. But my position on Crean does require the assumption that we have one of the most talented teams in the country. And I don't have stats to back that assumption up; I rely on the analysis of others for that.

The 13-point thing isn't because I think we'd go exactly 2-4 against Iowa's schedule. It was just to illustrate just how wide the gap between their SOS and ours is, because everyone admits we've had an easy schedule so far, but very few people seem to appreciate just how phenomenally easy it's been. That's all. I was just making a colorful point.

As for coaching, well, you can't figure out what is and isn't a coach's fault looking at a box score. At the end of the season, all you can do is look at your performance, and ask if it met your expectations. History suggests to me that Crean's teams rarely, if ever, match expectations. It's the pattern you blame on the coach. You don't need to quibble about specifics. The pattern is there, and the coach owns that.

We agree on most of these concepts, but I don't think there ever will be a way to computerize everything in such a way to eliminate human opinion. For example, I believe Sagarin begins every season with preliminary rankings based on the wellknown preseason polls. Only after 10 games or so, when he deems all the teams "connected," does he start relying on some computer program. But I believes he still gives extra computer-credit for beating a "Top 10" team, which relies at last a little bit on polls.

I think the Northwestern game will start telling us what we need to know about IU. Of course, it's amusing (particularly on the OTF) to see the Crean haters issue one last flurry of posts before the game. The problem is that once anyone commits an opinion to writing, they feel compelled to defend it and never change it regardless of (in this case) how the season ultimately develops.