Archies Future

What to do with Archie.

  • Fire him

    Votes: 87 60.4%
  • Next year would be judgement day.

    Votes: 57 39.6%

  • Total voters
    144

GThomas

Redshirt
Gold Member
Feb 26, 2002
160
230
43
Its not the defense, it’s the execution. And it’s not the strategy, it’s the culture (or the lack thereof).
To assume you know what the culture of the bb team is irresponsible. Unless you are part of that culture you have no way of knowing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TGB13

Birnk403

All-American
Nov 17, 2019
5,133
3,092
113
The university administration actively sought to "de-emphasize" the men's basketball program after Bobby Knight was fired. That has been an ongoing effort since, and continues today. I've had folks argue that Tom Crean being fired less than two years after winning a Big Ten regular season championship was an indicator that the administration was serious about competing at the highest level of college basketball. Unfortunately, it was anything but that. Crean had become increasingly difficult to deal with and, at that point, was a thorn in the side of the administration. Therefore, Crean's lackluster final season was enough cover to let him go.

If you can't see the fact that the so-called "powers that be" at IU desire the men's basketball program to be no more or less "significant" than the football program -- or any other program -- I don't know what to tell you. There is not a blindingly powerful desire to win at all costs like there is with SEC football programs or the Duke/North Carolina/Kentucky's of the college basketball world.
Crean didn’t get fired because he was increasingly difficult to deal with. That’s nonsense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tony Warwick

Birnk403

All-American
Nov 17, 2019
5,133
3,092
113
To assume you know what the culture of the bb team is irresponsible. Unless you are part of that culture you have no way of knowing.
Watch them. If you ever competed at anything, you’ll know what the obvious lack culture looks like.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigMobe

MikeHoncho69

Sophomore
Jan 15, 2018
823
1,046
93
De-emphasize the sport which put the University on the map and finally make an effort to become a football school which is a much bigger driver of revenue? I highly doubt that to be the case and if you think it is, then what's the point in even fielding a team if we aren't trying to win?
My point exactly.
 

Sobchak_Security

Benchwarmer
Jan 4, 2020
308
370
63
The university administration actively sought to "de-emphasize" the men's basketball program after Bobby Knight was fired. That has been an ongoing effort since, and continues today. I've had folks argue that Tom Crean being fired less than two years after winning a Big Ten regular season championship was an indicator that the administration was serious about competing at the highest level of college basketball. Unfortunately, it was anything but that. Crean had become increasingly difficult to deal with and, at that point, was a thorn in the side of the administration. Therefore, Crean's lackluster final season was enough cover to let him go.

If you can't see the fact that the so-called "powers that be" at IU desire the men's basketball program to be no more or less "significant" than the football program -- or any other program -- I don't know what to tell you. There is not a blindingly powerful desire to win at all costs like there is with SEC football programs or the Duke/North Carolina/Kentucky's of the college basketball world.
If that is the case....why has the university spent so much money on the basketball program?
 

dbmhoosier

All-Big Ten
Nov 23, 2005
3,428
2,453
113
De-emphasize the sport which put the University on the map and finally make an effort to become a football school which is a much bigger driver of revenue? I highly doubt that to be the case and if you think it is, then what's the point in even fielding a team if we aren't trying to win?

"No one bigger than the program ever again." That I can say as fact. Of course as well all know any coach that wins big here would obviously become very big and powerful.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MikeHoncho69

MikeHoncho69

Sophomore
Jan 15, 2018
823
1,046
93
"No one bigger than the program ever again." That I can say as fact. Of course as well all know any coach that wins big here would obviously become very big and powerful.
This is exactly the point -- the university elites are fine with winning, but they have no desire to have a Calipari type figure leading the program. If a new coach at IU were to win at that level, it would be a problem in the eyes of the powers-that-be.
 

IUgradman

All-Big Ten
Mar 31, 2009
4,428
3,173
113
This is exactly the point -- the university elites are fine with winning, but they have no desire to have a Calipari type figure leading the program. If a new coach at IU were to win at that level, it would be a problem in the eyes of the powers-that-be.

If Allen continues to elevate the football program no one at the university will feel threatened. I think that perception is overblown.
 

Hoosier_Phenom

Sophomore
Mar 13, 2017
791
439
63
My hunch is Dolson will keep Archie (due to the buyout), but instruct hm to make some changes to his staff. Hire some assistants who can recruit.
Yeah because that’s this teams problem. Try learning how to make adjustments and teach guys how to shoot free throws. This team has left way too many points on the court. If they shot 75% from the line we would have a few more wins on our record.
 

Champs1976

Redshirt
May 18, 2020
190
190
43
I think @Paterfamilias had a post in another thread that listed Indiana as having Top 5 ranked talent in conference (based on ratings coming out of HS). So that means one or a combination of things is happening.

1. Miller is the unluckiest guy in the conference.
2. Our players were vastly overrated by everyone who rates players.
3. Miller is a poor talent evaluator (along with a bunch of other guys).
4. Miller is a poor developer of talent.

I don't think we have a team full of one and done obviously, but we have guys that were considered more talented coming out of high school than the results have shown.

We are not at practice, but if Miller were to be given another year (and I voted fire) and I were his boss, I would be keenly interested in him explaining WTF he does during practice.
Number four is most of the problem, coupled with a complete inability to recruit size. Even Archie must know this since he said after UM loss that their "size" was really hard to deal with.
 

Champs1976

Redshirt
May 18, 2020
190
190
43
My guess is that Archie has already been told that he job is safe regardless of what happens. I would assume that everyone except TJD comes back and Brunk is healthy and we get the new big from Cincy.

Next year is make or break. Make a run at the Big Ten title and in the tourney or pack your bags.
TJD comes back unless he goes to Europe to play or the developmental league, he offers next to nothing to an NBA team right now.
 

Big Red Crimson Buffalo

Hall of Famer
Gold Member
Aug 28, 2001
15,285
8,544
113
The university administration actively sought to "de-emphasize" the men's basketball program after Bobby Knight was fired. That has been an ongoing effort since, and continues today. I've had folks argue that Tom Crean being fired less than two years after winning a Big Ten regular season championship was an indicator that the administration was serious about competing at the highest level of college basketball. Unfortunately, it was anything but that. Crean had become increasingly difficult to deal with and, at that point, was a thorn in the side of the administration. Therefore, Crean's lackluster final season was enough cover to let him go.

If you can't see the fact that the so-called "powers that be" at IU desire the men's basketball program to be no more or less "significant" than the football program -- or any other program -- I don't know what to tell you. There is not a blindingly powerful desire to win at all costs like there is with SEC football programs or the Duke/North Carolina/Kentucky's of the college basketball world.
Sounds good to me!

At schools like Ohio State, Michigan, Wisconsin, Michigan State.....do you think basketball controls everything?

How are they doing in basketball compared to IU?

This has nothing to do with “de-emphasizing” basketball. It has everything to do with making crummy hires. There are programs that are on shoestring budgets compared to IU that could beat the socks off of us because they have a good coaching staff.
 

Courtsensetwo

Hall of Famer
Oct 16, 2004
25,814
11,630
113
Sounds good to me!

At schools like Ohio State, Michigan, Wisconsin, Michigan State.....do you think basketball controls everything?

How are they doing in basketball compared to IU?

This has nothing to do with “de-emphasizing” basketball. It has everything to do with making crummy hires. There are programs that are on shoestring budgets compared to IU that could beat the socks off of us because they have a good coaching staff.

This is correct. Myles Brand said he wanted to "turn down the volume" on college athletics but since then the problems have been hiring issues.

IU fans never "turned down the volume" other than the Knightophiles leaving the nation (thank god) once BK departed. That said, after the amazing support through the Davis, Crean and even Sampscum eras...the nation becomes weary.
 

Cavanagh.13

Junior
Nov 6, 2019
1,169
1,243
113
Well, now 62% think he should be fired.

You said you thought it might already be toxic, did you think that number would be higher? I will make the same poll after the next two games if we lose, I bet it is over 80 then, at that point it is dumpster fire I would say. 62/38 is bad but not crazy bad.
 

Birnk403

All-American
Nov 17, 2019
5,133
3,092
113
You said you thought it might already be toxic, did you think that number would be higher? I will make the same poll after the next two games if we lose, I bet it is over 80 then, at that point it is dumpster fire I would say. 62/38 is bad but not crazy bad.
Bit that’s not likely the sentiment among the much broader cross section of people who consider themselves IU fans and who don’t go to fan forums. This is a tiny, isolated little island, and it doesn’t represent much of anything in the “real” world.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nieman

Tasmanian Devil

All-American
May 27, 2010
7,935
7,235
113
I think @Paterfamilias had a post in another thread that listed Indiana as having Top 5 ranked talent in conference (based on ratings coming out of HS). So that means one or a combination of things is happening.

1. Miller is the unluckiest guy in the conference.
2. Our players were vastly overrated by everyone who rates players.
3. Miller is a poor talent evaluator (along with a bunch of other guys).
4. Miller is a poor developer of talent.

I don't think we have a team full of one and done obviously, but we have guys that were considered more talented coming out of high school than the results have shown.

We are not at practice, but if Miller were to be given another year (and I voted fire) and I were his boss, I would be keenly interested in him explaining WTF he does during practice.
#4. If someone does an honest evaluation of our player development. there really isn't any question.

This year's squad isn't the most talented. But there is more than enough there to be better than 7-10 in the Big 10 at this point in season 4 - if utilized properly. It isn't.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IUCrazy2

justjames

Freshman
Mar 4, 2017
434
338
63
De-emphasize doesn't mean you don't want the program to succeed. I take that as they don't want a coach bigger than the University. It would make zero financial $$ to wish the men's bball program didn't succeed. They want it to succeed a different way than it did with Knight. I'm not saying they are right or wrong, but IU wants money and a good/great bball program delivers that....duh
 

bub-rub

Recruit
Dec 6, 2020
25
20
3
The university administration actively sought to "de-emphasize" the men's basketball program after Bobby Knight was fired. That has been an ongoing effort since, and continues today. I've had folks argue that Tom Crean being fired less than two years after winning a Big Ten regular season championship was an indicator that the administration was serious about competing at the highest level of college basketball. Unfortunately, it was anything but that. Crean had become increasingly difficult to deal with and, at that point, was a thorn in the side of the administration. Therefore, Crean's lackluster final season was enough cover to let him go.

If you can't see the fact that the so-called "powers that be" at IU desire the men's basketball program to be no more or less "significant" than the football program -- or any other program -- I don't know what to tell you. There is not a blindingly powerful desire to win at all costs like there is with SEC football programs or the Duke/North Carolina/Kentucky's of the college basketball world.

This and the election was rigged?

“There’s nothing real in the world anymore.”

 

dbmhoosier

All-Big Ten
Nov 23, 2005
3,428
2,453
113
De-emphasize doesn't mean you don't want the program to succeed. I take that as they don't want a coach bigger than the University. It would make zero financial $$ to wish the men's bball program didn't succeed. They want it to succeed a different way than it did with Knight. I'm not saying they are right or wrong, but IU wants money and a good/great bball program delivers that....duh

What they want is a guy who comes in and wins 20 games a year like clock work, has us in the NCAA tourney nearly every year, and most importantly keeps the money flowing in and butts in the seats. But no they do not ever want to be elite as that would mean the coach is bigger than the program. They thought they had that in Crean and Archie but both were much worse than imaginable.
 

Birnk403

All-American
Nov 17, 2019
5,133
3,092
113
De-emphasize doesn't mean you don't want the program to succeed. I take that as they don't want a coach bigger than the University. It would make zero financial $$ to wish the men's bball program didn't succeed. They want it to succeed a different way than it did with Knight. I'm not saying they are right or wrong, but IU wants money and a good/great bball program delivers that....duh
He was really focusing on the facilities arms race when he made those comments, and they weren’t altogether different from ones Knight made on the subject. Brand‘s comments have been embellished and wildly exaggerated from the second he made them.
 

oldcougar77

All-Big Ten
Apr 21, 2004
4,646
5,504
113
What they want is a guy who comes in and wins 20 games a year like clock work, has us in the NCAA tourney nearly every year, and most importantly keeps the money flowing in and butts in the seats. But no they do not ever want to be elite as that would mean the coach is bigger than the program. They thought they had that in Crean and Archie but both were much worse than imaginable.
Not a single soul that matters at IU doesn't want a basketball program that is "elite" (translation from my use of double negatives - everybody that matters wants IU to be ''elite"). They want to be in the ff and contend for conference championships. To say otherwise is ridiculous conspiracy-theory fodder. The fact that administrators don't want another Bob Knight does not mean that they are ok with mediocrity or want to limit the success of the program in any way. Those two things are not intertwined.

People who make broad-stroke statements about some anonymous "they" are not basing those statement on any facts or evidence - just on opinions or narratives that fit the emotion.

Besides, how many people who were on the BOT or in top administrative positions when Bob Knight was at IU are still there in those capacities today ?
 

Latest posts