Archies Future

What to do with Archie.

  • Fire him

    Votes: 87 60.4%
  • Next year would be judgement day.

    Votes: 57 39.6%

  • Total voters
    144

Cavanagh.13

Junior
Nov 6, 2019
1,051
1,115
113
If the season ended today, and we did not make the tournament, what would you like to happen?
 

GeddyHoosier

Junior
Feb 1, 2006
1,956
829
113
My hunch is Dolson will keep Archie (due to the buyout), but instruct hm to make some changes to his staff. Hire some assistants who can recruit.
 

Sobchak_Security

Benchwarmer
Jan 4, 2020
307
367
63
I don’t believe recruiting is the issue. Roster has players. They need coached.
Disagree. This is not an overly talented roster. Think of it this way, if you were putting together a team from players of B1G schools, who other than TJD would even be strongly considered??
 
  • Like
Reactions: kmathum

Cavanagh.13

Junior
Nov 6, 2019
1,051
1,115
113
Disagree. This is not an overly talented roster. Think of it this way, if you were putting together a team from players of B1G schools, who other than TJD would even be strongly considered??

Franklin Hunter Race and Lander I bet any team in the big ten would have taken. Come back to me next year on Lander and if he is elite.
 

birdforbogey

Senior
Aug 13, 2017
2,071
2,387
113
Losing your team 2 out of 4 years is not good. Even if Archie improves next year, it would not be enough to win me over. I have seen enough and if he is retained, I probably won’t watch an IU game next year.
 

Birnk403

All-Big Ten
Nov 17, 2019
4,981
3,046
113
Franklin Hunter Race and Lander I bet any team in the big ten would have taken. Come back to me next year on Lander and if he is elite.
That’s a third of the roster. The other two thirds wouldn’t likely elicit much enthusiasm from our competition.
 

dbmhoosier

All-Big Ten
Nov 23, 2005
3,422
2,451
113
My hunch is Dolson will keep Archie (due to the buyout), but instruct hm to make some changes to his staff. Hire some assistants who can recruit.

I honestly think the most likely situation is that Scott sits him down and has "the talk". Essentially telling Archie that he can have a year 5 if he wants but also laying down some extremely high expectations that Archie must meet in year 5 to have a chance at not being fired. Expectations that Archie will likely know he can't possibly meet. The hope would be that he sees the light and takes another job before he's completely humiliated.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ericrossiu

.Gerdis

Senior
Dec 10, 2003
2,341
987
113
Talent doesn’t exist in a vacuum.

Put Ron Harper Jr on IU (out of High School), and put Phinisee (out of High school) on MSU and what are the results?

“The mental is to physical as four is to one. “

People succeed because of a number of factors, all of which can be influenced by a change in location.

All I know is that Indiana as program is not excelling at the most important part of the game, that part that exists between the ears.
 

Pledgemygrievance

Benchwarmer
Mar 5, 2020
271
126
43
If the season ended today, and we did not make the tournament, what would you like to happen?
What do you think will happen though? Is it true that a couple men’s sports (Title IX) could be on the chopping block bc of lack of funds? If that is the case, would they come up with buyout money and not address revenue for tennis and wrestling?
 

Birnk403

All-Big Ten
Nov 17, 2019
4,981
3,046
113
Kenya was hired 100% to recruit. He hasn’t had a cycle yet, but he landed Stewart.
The challenge here is that the program should be your most effective recruiter, and that’s not the case. Kenya may do well (if he has time), but the fact that we had to bring in a ringer to recruit really shows how far down we are.
 

Birnk403

All-Big Ten
Nov 17, 2019
4,981
3,046
113
What do you think will happen though? Is it true that a couple men’s sports (Title IX) could be on the chopping block bc of lack of funds? If that is the case, would they come up with buyout money and not address revenue for tennis and wrestling?
It’s been discussed, but eliminating individual sports is viewed as a far more extreme measure that will only be invoked if things get significantly worse. I think the optics of paying a hefty buyout, even if it likely wouldn’t come close to the total figure, would be horrible, though.
 

jverlb

Redshirt
Gold Member
Jan 28, 2006
179
86
28
One thing about recruiting that I keep forgetting is this is a free transfer year. No sitting out just move on. How many guys will be available after the season and how many of your own guys will a team have to re recruit to keep them. This athlete bill of rights ties your hands from doing what Izzo did which he told his guys they are playing for their scholarship. That’s when MSU started playing better. Recruiting changes after the season.
 

Courtsensetwo

Hall of Famer
Oct 16, 2004
25,695
11,505
113
I honestly think the most likely situation is that Scott sits him down and has "the talk". Essentially telling Archie that he can have a year 5 if he wants but also laying down some extremely high expectations that Archie must meet in year 5 to have a chance at not being fired. Expectations that Archie will likely know he can't possibly meet. The hope would be that he sees the light and takes another job before he's completely humiliated.

Covid has muddied the situation up. Absent Covid, what would happen is clear.

This is a dead tenure walking which is a terrible place to be unless you can bring in the absolute right guy.
 

Pledgemygrievance

Benchwarmer
Mar 5, 2020
271
126
43
One thing about recruiting that I keep forgetting is this is a free transfer year. No sitting out just move on. How many guys will be available after the season and how many of your own guys will a team have to re recruit to keep them. This athlete bill of rights ties your hands from doing what Izzo did which he told his guys they are playing for their scholarship. That’s when MSU started playing better. Recruiting changes after the season.

If Archie comes back, I would expect around 33% roster turnover. A big man and maybe two of SG/PG/wing.
 

dbmhoosier

All-Big Ten
Nov 23, 2005
3,422
2,451
113
Covid has muddied the situation up. Absent Covid, what would happen is clear.

This is a dead tenure walking which is a terrible place to be unless you can bring in the absolute right guy.

I don't think it changes that much. The $10M buyout has way too much emphasis. We'd likely pay no more than half that. If Tom Crean, John Groce, Anthony Grant, etc can get another job then Archie will easily. And whatever buyout there is will paid by the boosters not the University.
 

go_iu

Senior
Feb 22, 2004
2,111
1,085
113
Losing your team 2 out of 4 years is not good. Even if Archie improves next year, it would not be enough to win me over. I have seen enough and if he is retained, I probably won’t watch an IU game next year.
That's where I'm at. We've seen this with Crean multiple times, and the only thing that silenced it was overwhelming talent coming in, which AM does not have coming
 

Bobby9

Junior
Gold Member
Nov 14, 2001
1,058
127
63
Losing your team 2 out of 4 years is not good. Even if Archie improves next year, it would not be enough to win me over. I have seen enough and if he is retained, I probably won’t watch an IU game next year.
CAM must go--as soon as possible--this week or next --take your choice !! I have already stopped watching games--actually root for other team to run up scores--really make them bad--which they are--
 

IUCrazy2

Hall of Famer
Mar 7, 2004
13,423
3,779
113
Disagree. This is not an overly talented roster. Think of it this way, if you were putting together a team from players of B1G schools, who other than TJD would even be strongly considered??

I think @Paterfamilias had a post in another thread that listed Indiana as having Top 5 ranked talent in conference (based on ratings coming out of HS). So that means one or a combination of things is happening.

1. Miller is the unluckiest guy in the conference.
2. Our players were vastly overrated by everyone who rates players.
3. Miller is a poor talent evaluator (along with a bunch of other guys).
4. Miller is a poor developer of talent.

I don't think we have a team full of one and done obviously, but we have guys that were considered more talented coming out of high school than the results have shown.

We are not at practice, but if Miller were to be given another year (and I voted fire) and I were his boss, I would be keenly interested in him explaining WTF he does during practice.
 

Tony Warwick

Hall of Famer
Oct 18, 2001
17,124
179
63
I honestly think the most likely situation is that Scott sits him down and has "the talk". Essentially telling Archie that he can have a year 5 if he wants but also laying down some extremely high expectations that Archie must meet in year 5 to have a chance at not being fired. Expectations that Archie will likely know he can't possibly meet. The hope would be that he sees the light and takes another job before he's completely humiliated.
You expect Archie to resign and walk away from the guaranteed money?

What program would hire him right now? Maybe DePaul? Alabama Birmingham?
 

go_iu

Senior
Feb 22, 2004
2,111
1,085
113
I think @Paterfamilias had a post in another thread that listed Indiana as having Top 5 ranked talent in conference (based on ratings coming out of HS). So that means one or a combination of things is happening.

1. Miller is the unluckiest guy in the conference.
2. Our players were vastly overrated by everyone who rates players.
3. Miller is a poor talent evaluator (along with a bunch of other guys).
4. Miller is a poor developer of talent.

I don't think we have a team full of one and done obviously, but we have guys that were considered more talented coming out of high school than the results have shown.

We are not at practice, but if Miller were to be given another year (and I voted fire) and I were his boss, I would be keenly interested in him explaining WTF he does during practice.
I would be interested on why we need to play this shitline defene. At Dayton, yes, I get it, you don't have big guys or talent to defend against P5 big guys. But it leaves everybody back to the basket when a shot goes up and leaves for open 3's. We don't even execute it well. Can't you just get players that can guard their position. Taking a mid-major hack defense to the B10 is not working, especially when you don't have players .... guess that's why he feels we need to do it, but that's on him
 
  • Like
Reactions: OrlandoHoosier

Tony Warwick

Hall of Famer
Oct 18, 2001
17,124
179
63
I don't think it changes that much. The $10M buyout has way too much emphasis. We'd likely pay no more than half that. If Tom Crean, John Groce, Anthony Grant, etc can get another job then Archie will easily. And whatever buyout there is will paid by the boosters not the University.
My guess is that Archie has already been told that he job is safe regardless of what happens. I would assume that everyone except TJD comes back and Brunk is healthy and we get the new big from Cincy.

Next year is make or break. Make a run at the Big Ten title and in the tourney or pack your bags.
 

Tony Warwick

Hall of Famer
Oct 18, 2001
17,124
179
63
I would be interested on why we need to play this shitline defene. At Dayton, yes, I get it, you don't have big guys or talent to defend against P5 big guys. But it leaves everybody back to the basket when a shot goes up and leaves for open 3's. We don't even execute it well. Can't you just get players that can guard their position. Taking a mid-major hack defense to the B10 is not working, especially when you don't have players .... guess that's why he feels we need to do it, but that's on him
Doesn't Izzo play the packline defense?
 

Sobchak_Security

Benchwarmer
Jan 4, 2020
307
367
63
My guess is that Archie has already been told that he job is safe regardless of what happens. I would assume that everyone except TJD comes back and Brunk is healthy and we get the new big from Cincy.

Next year is make or break. Make a run at the Big Ten title and in the tourney or pack your bags.
Wasn’t Crean told he was safe by Glass a day or so before he was fired??
 

go_iu

Senior
Feb 22, 2004
2,111
1,085
113
Doesn't Izzo play the packline defense?
IDK, maybe so. My problem with AM is that's all we are capable of doing. There needs to be adjustments game by game based on opponent and minute by minute, and they need to know how to execute it. Right now, it's like OK great it's working, or yesterday for example ... holy shit, it's not working at all, but we're gonna keep doing it because it's all we know
 

Tony Warwick

Hall of Famer
Oct 18, 2001
17,124
179
63
IDK, maybe so. My problem with AM is that's all we are capable of doing. There needs to be adjustments game by game based on opponent and minute by minute, and they need to know how to execute it. Right now, it's like OK great it's working, or yesterday for example ... holy shit, it's not working at all, but we're gonna keep doing it because it's all we know
That's another reason why I think he has already been told that he is safe. If he thought he was going to be canned, he would probably be shaking things up a bit more.
 

go_iu

Senior
Feb 22, 2004
2,111
1,085
113
That's another reason why I think he has already been told that he is safe. If he thought he was going to be canned, he would probably be shaking things up a bit more.
He is not safe at all. Fred Glass set out agreed upon expectations for him that he has not lived up to for his 3.5M salary in 4 years. No help is on the way, they will can him as soon as they envision lost revenue over the product
 

Birnk403

All-Big Ten
Nov 17, 2019
4,981
3,046
113
I would be interested on why we need to play this shitline defene. At Dayton, yes, I get it, you don't have big guys or talent to defend against P5 big guys. But it leaves everybody back to the basket when a shot goes up and leaves for open 3's. We don't even execute it well. Can't you just get players that can guard their position. Taking a mid-major hack defense to the B10 is not working, especially when you don't have players .... guess that's why he feels we need to do it, but that's on him
Its not the defense, it’s the execution. And it’s not the strategy, it’s the culture (or the lack thereof).
 
  • Like
Reactions: JIMSHAM

MikeHoncho69

Sophomore
Jan 15, 2018
823
1,046
93
The university administration actively sought to "de-emphasize" the men's basketball program after Bobby Knight was fired. That has been an ongoing effort since, and continues today. I've had folks argue that Tom Crean being fired less than two years after winning a Big Ten regular season championship was an indicator that the administration was serious about competing at the highest level of college basketball. Unfortunately, it was anything but that. Crean had become increasingly difficult to deal with and, at that point, was a thorn in the side of the administration. Therefore, Crean's lackluster final season was enough cover to let him go.

If you can't see the fact that the so-called "powers that be" at IU desire the men's basketball program to be no more or less "significant" than the football program -- or any other program -- I don't know what to tell you. There is not a blindingly powerful desire to win at all costs like there is with SEC football programs or the Duke/North Carolina/Kentucky's of the college basketball world.
 
  • Like
Reactions: outlawyer

Tony Warwick

Hall of Famer
Oct 18, 2001
17,124
179
63
The university administration actively sought to "de-emphasize" the men's basketball program after Bobby Knight was fired. That has been an ongoing effort since, and continues today. I've had folks argue that Tom Crean being fired less than two years after winning a Big Ten regular season championship was an indicator that the administration was serious about competing at the highest level of college basketball. Unfortunately, it was anything but that. Crean had become increasingly difficult to deal with and, at that point, was a thorn in the side of the administration. Therefore, Crean's lackluster final season was enough cover to let him go.

If you can't see the fact that the so-called "powers that be" at IU desire the men's basketball program to be no more or less "significant" than the football program -- or any other program -- I don't know what to tell you. There is not a blindingly powerful desire to win at all costs like there is with SEC football programs or the Duke/North Carolina/Kentucky's of the college basketball world.
De-emphasize the sport which put the University on the map and finally make an effort to become a football school which is a much bigger driver of revenue? I highly doubt that to be the case and if you think it is, then what's the point in even fielding a team if we aren't trying to win?