ADVERTISEMENT

Archie should not bank this scholly

Cavanagh

Cavanagh

Hall of Famer
Mar 1, 2012
10,194
13,108
113
Would love a grad transfer, but IU handicaps itself by only taking smart kids that can actually qualify for grad programs at IU. Very stupid. So I say swing for the fences on a big. I’d love a foreign guy, and shocked we haven’t got one yet. Archie dabbled overseas at Dayton. I know Roberts has connections to major major guesses over seas. I’m talking bawa jerkin type guesses. Basically a 20% shot at hitting kind of guy. I like to gamble tho and am all for it. Having someone sit on the bench and not play never hurt anyone. All for having 13 schollys, and think it is dumb not to use them all.
 
Cavanagh said:
I don’t agree. Will have 3 open spots and odds say a transfer again will make it 4 available. That’s plenty.
Click to expand...
Who are some of the top transfer players still available? I’d be ok with the big from Oregon, or another former 4-5 start recruit.
 
Cavanagh said:
Would love a grad transfer, but IU handicaps itself by only taking smart kids that can actually qualify for grad programs at IU. Very stupid. So I say swing for the fences on a big. I’d love a foreign guy, and shocked we haven’t got one yet. Archie dabbled overseas at Dayton. I know Roberts has connections to major major guesses over seas. I’m talking bawa jerkin type guesses. Basically a 20% shot at hitting kind of guy. I like to gamble tho and am all for it. Having someone sit on the bench and not play never hurt anyone. All for having 13 schollys, and think it is dumb not to use them all.
Click to expand...
The great myth of not being able to gain entry into graduate school. Lol
 
Birnk403 said:
The great myth of not being able to gain entry into graduate school. Lol
Click to expand...

Not a myth. At all. We give no exceptions like we do for entries like mo creek for example. You have to get in to a school academically. Want to bet me in this?
 
  • Like
Reactions: all4iu76
Cavanagh said:
Not a myth. At all. We give no exceptions like we do for entries like mo creek for example. You have to get in to a school academically. Want to bet me in this?
Click to expand...
You have to do that everywhere. And if you don’t think the graduate school in question at IU isn’t aware of the potential transfer and why they’re interested in IU, you don’t know as much as you think you do.
 
Cavanagh said:
Would love a grad transfer, but IU handicaps itself by only taking smart kids that can actually qualify for grad programs at IU. Very stupid. So I say swing for the fences on a big. I’d love a foreign guy, and shocked we haven’t got one yet. Archie dabbled overseas at Dayton. I know Roberts has connections to major major guesses over seas. I’m talking bawa jerkin type guesses. Basically a 20% shot at hitting kind of guy. I like to gamble tho and am all for it. Having someone sit on the bench and not play never hurt anyone. All for having 13 schollys, and think it is dumb not to use them all.
Click to expand...

We had what, 2 open last year and we still had a larger rotation than most at 10 and many felt it hurt us.

That rotation didn't shorten until what...February.

Managing 13 kids who all want to play is a nightmare in the locker room.

I liked Damezi but I'd rather his minutes go to Smith, Hunter and Geronimo, but mainly Smith and Hunter next year.

I mean Deron Davis was a near five star recruit and he only played what, 8 minutes because he was behind TJD and Brunk (and Race).

Meanwhile Rievers and Young for Wisconsin were playing 30 to 35 minutes a game in a tight rotation.
 
Birnk403 said:
You have to do that everywhere. And if you don’t think the graduate school in question at IU isn’t aware of the potential transfer and why they’re interested in IU, you don’t know as much as you think you do.
Click to expand...

Our grad transfers have been max, Evan Gordon, brunk, nick Z, fitzner. All were great students at their previous school.
 
TommyCracker said:
We had what, 2 open last year and we still had a larger rotation that most at 10.

That rotation didn't shorten until what...February.

Managing 13 kids who all want to play is a nightmare in the locker room.
Click to expand...

I would have killed for a pg last year. It was painful. Very painful. There is a reason lander reclassified. He would have played 25 mins a game last year as a jr in HS.
 
Cavanagh said:
I would have killed for a pg last year. It was painful. Very painful. There is a reason lander reclassified. He would have played 25 mins a game last year as a jr in HS.
Click to expand...

I would have for a good one. Unfortunately they aren't out there waiting to be an end of the rotation guy to fill up the available scholarships.

Was there anyone available last year who was going to come in and send Green, Durham, Franklin and Phiniese to the bench?

Proctor was one of the big catches and he had some good games, but didn't unsurp Eastern and let Eric Hunter pass him.
 
Cavanagh said:
I would have killed for a pg last year. It was painful. Very painful. There is a reason lander reclassified. He would have played 25 mins a game last year as a jr in HS.
Click to expand...
Had Phinisee been healthy he would have eaten a lot more minutes. The staff had no way of knowing at this time last year that we needed another guard. They also thought Green would mature into a more stable and productive player. I'm sure if Archie had a crystal ball and could have foreseen Phin's nagging injury and Green's continued erratic play he would have pursued another transfer for the backcourt.
 
oldcougar77 said:
Had Phinisee been healthy he would have eaten a lot more minutes. The staff had no way of knowing at this time last year that we needed another guard. They also thought Green would mature into a more stable and productive player. I'm sure if Archie had a crystal ball and could have foreseen Phin's nagging injury and Green's continued erratic play he would have pursued another transfer for the backcourt.
Click to expand...

Yes, and no. While one could have thought that we were OK for ball-handling duties last year (a healthy and returning Phin, backed by Green, Durham and possibly Franklin), it was evident after the 18-19 season that we desperately needed someone who could shoot and score the ball. I was posting about this last summer and fall before the season, and events (Phins injury, Greens continued erratic play as well as Durham's) only underscored this need. If it was obvious to a shmoe in Charlotte, it should have been addressed by the staff. Generally someone who can shoot/score is the most reasonable spot to address in a GT in my opinion... someone like a Zeisloft would have been invaluable last year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cryano and BigMobe
oldcougar77 said:
Had Phinisee been healthy he would have eaten a lot more minutes. The staff had no way of knowing at this time last year that we needed another guard. They also thought Green would mature into a more stable and productive player. I'm sure if Archie had a crystal ball and could have foreseen Phin's nagging injury and Green's continued erratic play he would have pursued another transfer for the backcourt.
Click to expand...

If Archie didn't know that Devonte would continue play erratically then he's completely clueless. That's who Devonte is and we all knew it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mk23
The only way to sensibly use the open scholarship for the 2020-21 season would be on a lights-out, knock-down shooter on a one-year grad transfer. Is there one available on the grad-transfer market? I'm not sure if there's a list, but even so, the transfer market has already been picked over like the discount rack at Macy's on Black Friday.
 
I am ok with ANY grad transfer as long as he only has one year left. Depth is depth, even if he isn't likely to get much playing time, having someone to help in practice next year vs. not has to hold at least some value. Otherwise, it has to be someone of serious value if we are looking at 2+ years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cryano
YOTHN said:
I am ok with ANY grad transfer as long as he only has one year left. Depth is depth, even if he isn't likely to get much playing time, having someone to help in practice next year vs. not has to hold at least some value. Otherwise, it has to be someone of serious value if we are looking at 2+ years.
Click to expand...

If we’re talking about someone that’s going to come In and only play 8-10 minutes a game...i’d rather those minutes go to someone that will be here next season too.

I’m expecting improvement this season, we’ll be a solid NCAA tournament team. We likely won’t win the B10, but we’ll be more competitive with the better teams. A finish in the 4-8 range, depending on how deep the conference is, or isn’t, is a reasonable progression and expectation.

And while adding a shooter might tip the scale and win a couple more games for us...which could mean a huge difference in the conference standings. 2 more wins this past year would have moved us up 5 or so slots, depending on who they came against. So even if it meant 13-7 and a 4th place finish versus 11-9 and a 8th/9th place finish...as a very arbitrary example...I’d rather have the 9th place finish, IF it meant someone like Franklin or Leal or Galloway developed more and was more ready for the 21-22 season.

Thats the year we could get back to big things. That’s the B10 title/Final Four contender type of potential.

If there’s a guy available that can be a main rotation guy, even a starter...obviously a different story.
 
would love to see a 2 yr transfer like Bielfeldt. Would give that scholly to a kid like him a heartbeat. Zeisloft, not so much. He could hit long 3s but couldn't guard his own shadow. His success-long range shooting-was much a product of the guy handling the ball- Yogi. Your wing shooters are so much more effective when you have a point who can also hit 3s, and drive to the hole. Yogi's departure created a huge vacuum in the backcourt that we still haven't filled, 5 yrs later. Was hoping Phin could be that guy, but losing faith. Sometimes Phin hits outside shots that look so smooth, then 5 minutes later he throws up bricks. Plus he can't stay healthy.
 
Last edited:
Birnk403 said:
It’s far more myth than reality.
Click to expand...

It's not.

It's why most of the grad transfers you see at IU are 2 year players and why IU in general doesn't take as many grad transfers as other schools. IU expects you to finish your grad degree. Not come in, take the 3 required courses to stay eligible for the fall semester and then avoid class the spring semester on your way out.

But you knew that right?
 
kkott said:
Yes, and no. While one could have thought that we were OK for ball-handling duties last year (a healthy and returning Phin, backed by Green, Durham and possibly Franklin), it was evident after the 18-19 season that we desperately needed someone who could shoot and score the ball. I was posting about this last summer and fall before the season, and events (Phins injury, Greens continued erratic play as well as Durham's) only underscored this need. If it was obvious to a shmoe in Charlotte, it should have been addressed by the staff. Generally someone who can shoot/score is the most reasonable spot to address in a GT in my opinion... someone like a Zeisloft would have been invaluable last year.
Click to expand...
Completely agree with this. Imagine an offense last season with a healthy Rob Phinisee as well as a lethal three-point shooter in the mold of Jordan Hulls or Nick Zeisloft. That would have spaced the floor and created driving lanes that were non-existent last season.

Honestly, with a consistent shooter, last season's team likely would have finished 23-9 in my opinion. That looks a whole lot better than 20-12 to me...
 
Coach Geez said:
It's not.

It's why most of the grad transfers you see at IU are 2 year players and why IU in general doesn't take as many grad transfers as other schools. IU expects you to finish your grad degree. Not come in, take the 3 required courses to stay eligible for the fall semester and then avoid class the spring semester on your way out.

But you knew that right?
Click to expand...
You’re spouting what you’ve heard fourth hand, but it’s not reality, at least in the sense that IU is somehow different than any other P5 school.
 
IUNorth said:
If we’re talking about someone that’s going to come In and only play 8-10 minutes a game...i’d rather those minutes go to someone that will be here next season too.

I’m expecting improvement this season, we’ll be a solid NCAA tournament team. We likely won’t win the B10, but we’ll be more competitive with the better teams. A finish in the 4-8 range, depending on how deep the conference is, or isn’t, is a reasonable progression and expectation.

And while adding a shooter might tip the scale and win a couple more games for us...which could mean a huge difference in the conference standings. 2 more wins this past year would have moved us up 5 or so slots, depending on who they came against. So even if it meant 13-7 and a 4th place finish versus 11-9 and a 8th/9th place finish...as a very arbitrary example...I’d rather have the 9th place finish, IF it meant someone like Franklin or Leal or Galloway developed more and was more ready for the 21-22 season.

Thats the year we could get back to big things. That’s the B10 title/Final Four contender type of potential.

If there’s a guy available that can be a main rotation guy, even a starter...obviously a different story.
Click to expand...
Hmmm...must be a glitch in the forum’s system...
The timestamp isnt showing up as dates from 2018...or copied and pasted again in 2019...and now again in 2020...

But I know I’ve read this after each Archie season!
 
Birnk403 said:
You’re spouting what you’ve heard fourth hand, but it’s not reality, at least in the sense that IU is somehow different than any other P5 school.
Click to expand...

IU's had 5 grad transfers for basketball in a little under a decade since the NCAA implemented the Grad Transfer rule. Two of the five have been players with two years of eligibility (Zeisloft and Brunk) and another Bielfedt completed his degree. Evan Gordon and Evan Fitzner are the other two. There's P5 schools who build their rosters around Grad Transfers. IU is much more conservative on their use of Grad Transfers as is evidence I've shown. It's for a reason.
 
cryano said:
Hmmm...must be a glitch in the forum’s system...
The timestamp isnt showing up as dates from 2018...or copied and pasted again in 2019...and now again in 2020...

But I know I’ve read this after each Archie season!
Click to expand...

Not from me. We’re in a different, better, spot today than we were this time last year. That’s good/necessary, because the B10 likely isn’t getting much easier. There are a lot of programs with newish coaches, that are also improving. If we move up some spots in the standings, and return key guys like TJD, Lander, Hunter, Phin, Thompson...that’ll be a progressively better spot than we are now.

I get the argument that we haven’t improved in the standings...while teams like Illinois and Rutgers have. And we need to start moving up the ladder. And I agree with that.

I just don’t see the necessity to ignore real improvements in our program, because we finished 11th...in a historically strong conference season.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jimmygoiu
Coach Geez said:
IU's had 5 grad transfers for basketball in a little under a decade since the NCAA implemented the Grad Transfer rule. Two of the five have been players with two years of eligibility (Zeisloft and Brunk) and another Bielfedt completed his degree. Evan Gordon and Evan Fitzner are the other two. There's P5 schools who build their rosters around Grad Transfers. IU is much more conservative on their use of Grad Transfers as is evidence I've shown. It's for a reason.
Click to expand...
Being more judicious doesn’t, in any way, suggest that it’s due to admissions issues. It’s not.
 
I think the stats are going to tell you that one year grad transfers tend to bust more often.

They come in and have to learn a new system right away and most are coming from a mid major.

It's a different world.

Who was the guy from Evansville? He led the conference in scoring and went to Northwestern for one year and was a bust.

I think coming in new is already tough. Remember the grad transfer from Temple that was looking to improve his NBA stock so he went to Ohio State...and completely busted?

Hell we grabbed one of the supposed best pure shooters a couple years ago in Fitzner and went on to have his worst shooting season of his career.

Standard transfers get a season to get acclimated to the program and I believe they don't bust as much.

Regardless, we have a 6'4" wing that was top ten in the big ten in 3 point shooting.

We have a high upside 6'7" wing that shot around 45% from three in the second half of the season.

We're bringing in a 6'4" wing recruit that is considered one of the best shooters of his class.

I think our roster is pretty solid and we have a larger than normal rotation as it is. I don't think we need to add another body for the sake of adding a body.

I think our current players are better than what's out there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jimmygoiu
TommyCracker said:
Who was the guy from Evansville? He led the conference in scoring and went to Northwestern for one year and was a bust.
Click to expand...

Ryan Taylor. Not sure I'd call him a bust as he was a competent starter, but he was wildly inefficient and forced to play a role that was probably too big for him.

I'd agree to your sentiment that most GT's, especially ones transferring from lower major to higher major, don't perform to the same standard as they previously did, but I'm fine with a one year rental so long as it fills a need/role. I would surround or build my team around the grad transfer market like the way some coaches do. Bielfeldt was perfect, Brunk is serviceable for what we need him to do as was Ziesloft, but IU just isn't going to really go after grad transfers due to the strenuous circumstances.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TommyCracker
Cavanagh said:
Would love a grad transfer, but IU handicaps itself by only taking smart kids that can actually qualify for grad programs at IU. Very stupid. So I say swing for the fences on a big. I’d love a foreign guy, and shocked we haven’t got one yet. Archie dabbled overseas at Dayton. I know Roberts has connections to major major guesses over seas. I’m talking bawa jerkin type guesses. Basically a 20% shot at hitting kind of guy. I like to gamble tho and am all for it. Having someone sit on the bench and not play never hurt anyone. All for having 13 schollys, and think it is dumb not to use them all.
Click to expand...
I don’t think Archie ever plans on banking scholarships. It depends on if there are guys that can make the team better, and whether or not he can get them to come.
 
Last edited:
MikeHoncho69 said:
Completely agree with this. Imagine an offense last season with a healthy Rob Phinisee as well as a lethal three-point shooter in the mold of Jordan Hulls or Nick Zeisloft. That would have spaced the floor and created driving lanes that were non-existent last season.

Honestly, with a consistent shooter, last season's team likely would have finished 23-9 in my opinion. That looks a whole lot better than 20-12 to me...
Click to expand...

NZ couldn't defend a chair. He would never have played more than 5 minutes a game in this system.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kmathum
T.M.P. said:
NZ couldn't defend a chair. He would never have played more than 5 minutes a game in this system.
Click to expand...
Al Durham can't, either, but he started nearly every game last season. Zeisloft would have been, arguably, more valuable than Durham in 2019-20.
 
MikeHoncho69 said:
Al Durham can't, either, but he started nearly every game last season. Zeisloft would have been, arguably, more valuable than Durham in 2019-20.
Click to expand...
No he wouldn't. Hard to put up shots while sitting on the bench. Damezi was a better defender than NZ. NZ made Hulls look like Fife.
 
TommyCracker said:
I think the stats are going to tell you that one year grad transfers tend to bust more often.

They come in and have to learn a new system right away and most are coming from a mid major.

It's a different world.

Who was the guy from Evansville? He led the conference in scoring and went to Northwestern for one year and was a bust.

I think coming in new is already tough. Remember the grad transfer from Temple that was looking to improve his NBA stock so he went to Ohio State...and completely busted?

Hell we grabbed one of the supposed best pure shooters a couple years ago in Fitzner and went on to have his worst shooting season of his career.

Standard transfers get a season to get acclimated to the program and I believe they don't bust as much.

Regardless, we have a 6'4" wing that was top ten in the big ten in 3 point shooting.

We have a high upside 6'7" wing that shot around 45% from three in the second half of the season.

We're bringing in a 6'4" wing recruit that is considered one of the best shooters of his class.

I think our roster is pretty solid and we have a larger than normal rotation as it is. I don't think we need to add another body for the sake of adding a body.

I think our current players are better than what's out there.
Click to expand...
The grad transfer thing has worked better in football. Wish we had a Max B in every class.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

I

Tom Allen: Sadly, my new assessment (Long)

Replies
85
Views
7K
IU Football Board
Crayfish57
Crayfish57
allasley

Friday Recruiting Notebook - March 4

Replies
4
Views
2K
Premium IU Hoop Forum
TheShadow1087
T
allasley

Friday Recruiting Notebook - July 9

Replies
0
Views
1K
Premium IU Hoop Forum
allasley
allasley
M

Expectation Management!!!

Replies
6
Views
1K
Premium IU Hoop Forum
Kellerdog
K
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back