Anyone see the outrage over OK signs at Army-Navy game?

[Aloha Hoosier]

Some were absolutely certain it was racist white power signs and the Cadets and Midshipmen needed to be immediately expelled and fined for it. Well, not exactly: https://www.espn.com/college-footba...-hand-gestures-made-army-navy-game-not-racist

They were being a bit immature, but they weren’t celebrating “white power” on national TV.

Assuming worst intentions and jumping to conclusions is always wrong.

 

[iu_a_att]

Some were absolutely certain it was racist white power signs and the Cadets and Midshipmen needed to be immediately expelled and fined for it. Well, not exactly: https://www.espn.com/college-footba...-hand-gestures-made-army-navy-game-not-racist

They were being a bit immature, but they weren’t celebrating “white power” on national TV.

Assuming worst intentions and jumping to conclusions is always wrong.

I saw the controversy and didn't comment on it. I agree about assuming worst intentions and jumping to conclusions--particularly when it comes to young people. I do think it was appropriate to investigate and am glad the investigation was completed and relieved to find that there isn't anything there.

 

[Sope Creek]

Some were absolutely certain it was racist white power signs and the Cadets and Midshipmen needed to be immediately expelled and fined for it. Well, not exactly: https://www.espn.com/college-footba...-hand-gestures-made-army-navy-game-not-racist

They were being a bit immature, but they weren’t celebrating “white power” on national TV.

Assuming worst intentions and jumping to conclusions is always wrong.

OK . . . whose arm(s) were they expecting to punch?

 

[Courtsensetwo]

yeah, that was a reach by folks that seem to think they can accuse anyone of anything and it be accepted...because ...outrage.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

OK . . . whose arm(s) were they expecting to punch?

Buddies at home, buddies in front of them? I don't know. Both academies investigated it and determined that they were doing the punch game and not racist symbols. You suspecting Deep DoD/Academies or something?

 

[Sope Creek]

Buddies at home, buddies in front of them? I don't know. Both academies investigated it and determined that they were doing the punch game and not racist symbols. You suspecting Deep DoD/Academies or something?

Are you accusing me of suspicions?

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Personally, I thought it was the game when I saw it which is why I never brought it up. . But just to play devil's advocate, were they planning on punching people sitting at home and watching the game on TV? Or punching POTUS if he looked that way?

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Personally, I thought it was the game when I saw it which is why I never brought it up. . But just to play devil's advocate, were they planning on punching people sitting at home and watching the game on TV? Or punching POTUS if he looked that way?

I don’t know. They’re teenagers and just going to one of the academies doesn’t make them mature immediately.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I don’t know. They’re teenagers and just going to one of the academies doesn’t make them mature immediately.

Except for RE Lee of course (I wonder if anyone since the Civil War has ever made it through without ever getting a demerit).

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Except for RE Lee of course (I wonder if anyone since the Civil War has ever made it through without ever getting a demerit).

Definitely not Custer.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Some were absolutely certain it was racist white power signs and the Cadets and Midshipmen needed to be immediately expelled and fined for it. Well, not exactly: https://www.espn.com/college-footba...-hand-gestures-made-army-navy-game-not-racist

They were being a bit immature, but they weren’t celebrating “white power” on national TV.

Assuming worst intentions and jumping to conclusions is always wrong.

NCIS investigated, seriously? When is this going to be a TV episode? The sad thing is that this is a thing. What kind of world are we making here.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

NCIS investigated, seriously? When is this going to be a TV episode? The sad thing is that this is a thing. What kind of world are we making here.

Why wouldn't they investigate? If they had thrown Nazi salutes, should there have been an investigation?

As to what kind of world we are making, we are making a different world. Almost always that is for the better. It is the job of some of us old people to stand on the porch, shake our cane, and yell "Get off my yard". The simple fact is too many of us stop growing as we are and hate change.

So we do stupid things like yelling at clouds, and voting Trump (look at the age breakdown from 2016). If we brought back the founders, half would be aghast that we freed the slaves. 90% would be aghast we integrated, that we allow blacks in the military, that we let women vote, that we have a large standing army. Change happens between generations, clothing changes, music changes, mores change. That is all good. We old people hate it, that is natural. Once we realize that is all natural, we can overcome that hatred of change. We can stop shaking our canes, and we can stop voting Trump in a desperate bid to turn back the clock.

I am glad it was investigated, the military should not be a subsidiary of white power. Google it, it happens that those groups get embedded in. I am likewise glad in this case it turned out to be something else.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

 

[Courtsensetwo]

NCIS investigated, seriously? When is this going to be a TV episode? The sad thing is that this is a thing. What kind of world are we making here.

The Cadets shouldn't have been acting like middle schoolers and the perpetually outraged shouldn't have been outraged. But that is the world we are making here.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Why wouldn't they investigate? If they had thrown Nazi salutes, should there have been an investigation?

As to what kind of world we are making, we are making a different world. Almost always that is for the better. It is the job of some of us old people to stand on the porch, shake our cane, and yell "Get off my yard". The simple fact is too many of us stop growing as we are and hate change.

So we do stupid things like yelling at clouds, and voting Trump (look at the age breakdown from 2016). If we brought back the founders, half would be aghast that we freed the slaves. 90% would be aghast we integrated, that we allow blacks in the military, that we let women vote, that we have a large standing army. Change happens between generations, clothing changes, music changes, mores change. That is all good. We old people hate it, that is natural. Once we realize that is all natural, we can overcome that hatred of change. We can stop shaking our canes, and we can stop voting Trump in a desperate bid to turn back the clock.

I am glad it was investigated, the military should not be a subsidiary of white power. Google it, it happens that those groups get embedded in. I am likewise glad in this case it turned out to be something else.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Why wouldn't they investigate? If they had thrown Nazi salutes, should there have been an investigation?

As to what kind of world we are making, we are making a different world. Almost always that is for the better. It is the job of some of us old people to stand on the porch, shake our cane, and yell "Get off my yard". The simple fact is too many of us stop growing as we are and hate change.

So we do stupid things like yelling at clouds, and voting Trump (look at the age breakdown from 2016). If we brought back the founders, half would be aghast that we freed the slaves. 90% would be aghast we integrated, that we allow blacks in the military, that we let women vote, that we have a large standing army. Change happens between generations, clothing changes, music changes, mores change. That is all good. We old people hate it, that is natural. Once we realize that is all natural, we can overcome that hatred of change. We can stop shaking our canes, and we can stop voting Trump in a desperate bid to turn back the clock.

I am glad it was investigated, the military should not be a subsidiary of white power. Google it, it happens that those groups get embedded in. I am likewise glad in this case it turned out to be something else.

If part of building a new world includes surrendering a harmless symbol because 12 idiots on 8chan decided to troll gullible people into thinking it represents white supremacy, then I’m going to push back on that.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Why wouldn't they investigate? If they had thrown Nazi salutes, should there have been an investigation?

As to what kind of world we are making, we are making a different world. Almost always that is for the better. It is the job of some of us old people to stand on the porch, shake our cane, and yell "Get off my yard". The simple fact is too many of us stop growing as we are and hate change.

So we do stupid things like yelling at clouds, and voting Trump (look at the age breakdown from 2016). If we brought back the founders, half would be aghast that we freed the slaves. 90% would be aghast we integrated, that we allow blacks in the military, that we let women vote, that we have a large standing army. Change happens between generations, clothing changes, music changes, mores change. That is all good. We old people hate it, that is natural. Once we realize that is all natural, we can overcome that hatred of change. We can stop shaking our canes, and we can stop voting Trump in a desperate bid to turn back the clock.

I am glad it was investigated, the military should not be a subsidiary of white power. Google it, it happens that those groups get embedded in. I am likewise glad in this case it turned out to be something else.

First of all, the circle is not like a Nazi salute in any way.

Second, the circle isn’t even a white power sign unless you want to empower and believe some idiots who have an internet connection, a keyboard, and a Twitter account.

Third, the world doesn’t become a better place and we don’t become better people by trivializing important issues like racism with dumbass social media trends.

Fourth, Somebody needs to clear the air and push back on the whole issue of hair trigger claims of being offended. The military is as good of way to end this nonsense as anywhere.

Finally, I think we have bigger fish to fry. I’d rather see us take a public stand against those who drop trou and take a shit on public sidewalks. But I guess I’m old school and yell at people on my lawn—especially if they are taking a crap.

Guess I’ll go yell at the moon.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

I’d rather see us take a public stand against those who drop trou and take a shit on public sidewalks.

and yet you have no problem with the investor class doing so on the working class.

which between suppressing the working class jobs and wages for 40 yrs, and the total complicity to Wall St, including the healthcare and pharma sectors, are 100% responsible for the sidewalk problem.

you bitch about a problem 100% the creation of all you lobby for here on a daily basis.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

First of all, the circle is not like a Nazi salute in any way.

Second, the circle isn’t even a white power sign unless you want to empower and believe some idiots who have an internet connection, a keyboard, and a Twitter account.

Third, the world doesn’t become a better place and we don’t become better people by trivializing important issues like racism with dumbass social media trends.

Fourth, Somebody needs to clear the air and push back on the whole issue of hair trigger claims of being offended. The military is as good of way to end this nonsense as anywhere.

Finally, I think we have bigger fish to fry. I’d rather see us take a public stand against those who drop trou and take a shit on public sidewalks. But I guess I’m old school and yell at people on my lawn—especially if they are taking a crap.

Guess I’ll go yell at the moon.

Words and symbolism change. Can you definitively answer how many people use that for white power? Is it more or less than use it for this game?

The N word was often used, now it is not. Things change, you wishing to freeze us into a static world is not going to work. And just ignoring white supremacists also does not work.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Let me add that a common argument is people choose to be offended. Suppose cadets unfurled a banner using GD, would not conservatives choose to be offended? What makes that offense more real.

There are 3 things that symbol could have meant, one is "white power", one is "watch me troll libs", and one is that game. Two are inappropriate for officers. Do you think Ike would have approved of symbols to troll one of the two parties?

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Let me add that a common argument is people choose to be offended. Suppose cadets unfurled a banner using GD, would not conservatives choose to be offended? What makes that offense more real.

There are 3 things that symbol could have meant, one is "white power", one is "watch me troll libs", and one is that game. Two are inappropriate for officers. Do you think Ike would have approved of symbols to troll one of the two parties?

Or 4- I’m going to publicly use that harmless symbol because I’ll be damned if I’m going to cede that kind of power to internet trolls.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Or 4- I’m going to publicly use that harmless symbol because I’ll be damned if I’m going to cede that kind of power to internet trolls.

Yes, people at a football game are really going meta.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Words and symbolism change. Can you definitively answer how many people use that for white power? Is it more or less than use it for this game?

The N word was often used, now it is not. Things change, you wishing to freeze us into a static world is not going to work. And just ignoring white supremacists also does not work.

The N word was always an insult. Making a circle with you thumb and forefinger has historically been a pleasantry indicating approval or agreement. I don’t know why anyone should accept that gesture as giving offense or taking offense from it. This isn’t change. It’s wokeness run amuck.

if we penalize people because it’s the insult du jur, then something else will take it place. The crackpots will be in control.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

The N word was always an insult. Making a circle with you thumb and forefinger has historically been a pleasantry indicating approval or agreement. I don’t know why anyone should accept that gesture as giving offense or taking offense from it. This isn’t change. It’s wokeness run amuck.

if we penalize people because it’s the insult du jur, then something else will take it place. The crackpots will be in control.

It has always been that way. You know the history of the swastika.

 

[hoosboot]

It has always been that way. You know the history of the swastika.

Imagine how people might lose their mind if somebody knelt during the national anthem.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

It has always been that way. You know the history of the swastika.

Swastika? Seriously?

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Swastika? Seriously?

You have brought up the swastika yourself, several times.

Words and meanings change. Some real jerks came up with "snowflake" as an insult. That didn't exist 20 years ago.

I know people here who were deeply offended at being called a "teabaggrr" when the Tea Party took off. You werr one. Why did you let some online rabble make that word bad?

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

You have brought up the swastika yourself, several times.

Words and meanings change. Some real jerks came up with "snowflake" as an insult. That didn't exist 20 years ago.

I know people here who were deeply offended at being called a "teabaggrr" when the Tea Party took off. You werr one. Why did you let some online rabble make that word bad?

So if they claim the thumbs up, do we concede that to? How about the peace sign? Where does it end?

And before you scoff, remember you’re advocating discarding the universal sign for ok, something that would have been unthinkable just a year ago. Don’t say it couldn’t happen.

Why do you want to surrender so easily?

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Imagine how people might lose their mind if somebody knelt during the national anthem.

Kneeling has long been a sign of respect, many religions use kneeling during prayervas a sign of respecting God. People for millennia were required to kneel before leaders. No way CO lets Kap change the meaning of kneeling to become something else, as a sign of disrespct.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

You have brought up the swastika yourself, several times.

Words and meanings change. Some real jerks came up with "snowflake" as an insult. That didn't exist 20 years ago.

I know people here who were deeply offended at being called a "teabaggrr" when the Tea Party took off. You werr one. Why did you let some online rabble make that word bad?

Stay focused here.

Nobody is going to be disciplined or thrown out of a military academy for saying “snowflake”. The consequences morons have attached to the OK sign is the problem

 

[hoosboot]

Kneeling has long been a sign of respect, many religions use kneeling during prayervas a sign of respecting God. People for millennia were required to kneel before leaders. No way CO lets Kap change the meaning of kneeling to become something else, as a sign of disrespct.

Totally. You need to stay focused on the things that CO says today because the expiration date on the values attached to them changes depending on who the values might apply to. It's something he calls nuance.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Stay focused here.

Nobody is going to be disciplined or thrown out of a military academy for saying “snowflake”. The consequences morons have attached to the OK sign is the problem

They are not, would they have been for calling you a "teabagger" 10 years ago? Or if they knelt during the anthem?

Do you recall conservatives using the term "freedom fries"? Word meanings change. Look at the word "queer". You can find old movies where it was used as "odd" in describing a person. It took on a different meaning as a slur against homosexuals.

I wonder if there was a time that shouting, "Sic Semper Tyranis" toward a president would have resulted in one being assaulted by security. Why would they let one man change the meaning.

If white power groups do begin using a symbol, people of color should be allowed to watch a football game without it being used. Just as people demanded the right to read this board without seeing "teabagger".

 

[CO. Hoosier]

They are not, would they have been for calling you a "teabagger" 10 years ago? Or if they knelt during the anthem?

Do you recall conservatives using the term "freedom fries"? Word meanings change. Look at the word "queer". You can find old movies where it was used as "odd" in describing a person. It took on a different meaning as a slur against homosexuals.

I wonder if there was a time that shouting, "Sic Semper Tyranis" toward a president would have resulted in one being assaulted by security. Why would they let one man change the meaning.

If white power groups do begin using a symbol, people of color should be allowed to watch a football game without it being used. Just as people demanded the right to read this board without seeing "teabagger".

I guess we both can take comfort in the notion that giving those in authority the finger is protected speech. So not all is lost. I’m otta here.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Stay focused here.

Nobody is going to be disciplined or thrown out of a military academy for saying “snowflake”. The consequences morons have attached to the OK sign is the problem

Who do you think in 2016 demanded West Point investigate a photo of cadets using the black power salute?

We call that checkmate

Edit, auto correct had checkmate as chocolate..

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Who do you think in 2016 demanded West Point investigate a photo of cadets using the black power salute?

We call that checkmate

Edit, auto correct had checkmate as chocolate..

You still need to focus on the point here. Regardless of what one thinks of the black power salute it has always meant the same thing.

The okay sign is not the same. I’m not willing to surrender a pleasant and acceptable expression we frequently use among family and friends to the morons who hide in their basements and inhabit the internet. We all need to push back and reject such nonsense. Military academies are as as good a place to start as any.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

You still need to focus on the point here. Regardless of what one thinks of the black power salute it has always meant the same thing.

The okay sign is not the same. I’m not willing to surrender a pleasant and acceptable expression we frequently use among family and friends to the morons who hide in their basements and inhabit the internet. We all need to push back and reject such nonsense. Military academies are as as good a place to start as any.

Unless I am mistaken, white power is not aimed at you in the least. It takes a lot of courage to let an insult not at all directed at you leave you unfazed.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

You still need to focus on the point here. Regardless of what one thinks of the black power salute it has always meant the same thing.

 

[iu_a_att]

Unless I am mistaken, white power is not aimed at you in the least. It takes a lot of courage to let an insult not at all directed at you leave you unfazed.

I think the discussion of white power symbols is a typical CoH distraction from the actual issue you are trying to discuss. That issue is the problem of white nationalists/racists embedding with the U.S. Military. Former U.S Army Col Jeff McCausland discusses the issue with the proper scope and historical context.
The problem is growing. There used to be consensus that we shouldn't allow white supremacists into the military. My guess is that those in touch and who support our military traditions oppose this threat. But Trump does not support our military traditions. The GOP Senate just removed language that would have screened out military applicants on the basis of white nationalism.

Authoritarian nationalist regimes always seed the police and army with the worst racist/nationalist elements. See what is happening in India now as a reference.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I think the discussion of white power symbols is a typical CoH distraction from the actual issue you are trying to discuss. That issue is the problem of white nationalists/racists embedding with the U.S. Military. Former U.S Army Col Jeff McCausland discusses the issue with the proper scope and historical context.
The problem is growing. There used to be consensus that we shouldn't allow white supremacists into the military. My guess is that those in touch and who support our military traditions oppose this threat. But Trump does not support our military traditions. The GOP Senate just removed language that would have screened out military applicants on the basis of white nationalism.

Authoritarian nationalist regimes always seed the police and army with the worst racist/nationalist elements. See what is happening in India now as a reference.

You are wrong. You can count me among those who will fight against racism along side of you at anytime. I will also fight against those who trivialize racism and other issues in order to satisfy their insatiable appetites to protest something, act offended, and bring attention to themselves. This OK sign kerfuffle is more like the latter than the former.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

So if they claim the thumbs up, do we concede that to? How about the peace sign? Where does it end?

And before you scoff, remember you’re advocating discarding the universal sign for ok, something that would have been unthinkable just a year ago. Don’t say it couldn’t happen.

Why do you want to surrender so easily?

You didn’t answer me, Marv. What if the peace sign is next?

From Wikipedia-
In 2017, users on the message-board site 4chan[40][41][42] aimed to convince the media that the OK gesture was being used as a white power movement symbol.[40][43] According to The Boston Globe, users on 4chan's /pol/ ("Politically Incorrect") board were instructed in February 2017 to "flood Twitter and other social media websites...claiming that the OK hand sign is a symbol of white supremacy," as part of a campaign dubbed "Operation O-KKK".[37]

You’ve been trolled. Those fools recognized how hopelessly gullible people like you are when it comes to racism and your need to virtue signal and they used that knowledge to play you like a fiddle. And you’re STILL falling for it, almost 3 years later.

For as much as you liberals call out conservatives for ignorant group think, you guys do a hell of a lot of it yourselves.