Anyone actually see Hunter or Fitzner or Forrester play live?
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Yes, yes, yes. (twss)
I watched St Mary's and other mid majors for the last nine years for a basketball fix I couldn't get with Crean teams. I like smart fundamental basketball, we haven't had that in a long time. Watched youtube or espn full games for Hunter x3 and Forrester x1.
Fitz is exactly as described, big man with range, not explosive but a good defensive rebounder, and fairly decent defender. Maybe a bit too slow footed, but what big isn't. He has a goofy push shot, but if he's open it goes in. It's ugly though.
Hunter has skills, but no one area where he's great but he's good at everything. Good handle, good awareness, good shot, fairly quick, fairly athletic..Star in the making.
Forrester is quick and mobile and very athletic but from the one game I saw, still raw skillswise. The thing about Hunter and Forrester is they seem to have the ability to play and guard multiple positions. Hunter probably 2/3/4, and Forrester 3/4/5 though he may be a bit thin currently for 5 and not skilled enough yet for 3.
Trying to figure out which positions they'll play in college is tough. It depends on development. both physical and skillswise.
I doubt Forrester gets much playing time this year, his position is loaded with better players, once his skills catch up he'll be a good one. Hunter will get immediate playing time, but probably only as a key reserve. Next year he'll play and often, in two years if everything goes as expected, all conference.
By seasons end we should be down to an 8 or 9 man rotation. Which means 5 to 6 guys are going to battle for 5 to 10 minutes a game - mostly the freshman. Which means 5 to 6 guys will be unhappy.
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I'm probably being too optimistic about Fitzner, but I really, really like that Archie brought this kid in. He's got a lot of TJ Leaf in his game, obviously a bit of a poor man's version. He makes up for lacking somewhat in big-time athleticism by doing the things that he CAN do extremely well.
Fitzner may end up being the 2nd most important addition as far as impacting this seasons ceiling. Imo, we needed him even if Davis was fully healthy, just because of the diversity he can bring to the offense.
Archie just impresses me so much with his roster construction at this point!
Pretty good analysis.
The part I love about Hunter and Forrester’s current abilities is they are good enough as they currently are to fill a roll - they’re not being asked to do more than they might not have ability at this point in time. Allows them to be complimentary players as they develop.
Hunter is under ranked in his class..
I'd say he's better than Brooks even if Brooks has a good senior year..
Brooks has a lot to prove to me. Like having a motor..And usually you have that at birth. .Not saying he couldn't tare it up as a senior though. .And so far he's looking good on the AAU circuit this summer.
I'd say he's better than Brooks even if Brooks has a good senior year..
Brooks has a lot to prove to me. Like having a motor..And usually you have that at birth. .Not saying he couldn't tare it up as a senior though. .And so far he's looking good on the AAU circuit this summer.
What name will you give it, or to call Archie, if several of them decide to go elsewhere where they can get some playing time?
Will Archie still be recruiting when he’s oversigned by two? You forgot to mention that.
I doubt Archie will ever pull a kid's scholarship as long as he's doing well off the court. Now he might take a Clifton Moore aside in the offseason and more or less tell him that he's never going to play here and hope he gets the message but I'd be shocked if he forced him out. I doubt anyone ever gets Roth'd under Archie.
Is that a trick question? I'd call it a transfer. It happens all the time in college sports.
Disgruntled? I think what he's getting at, and the desired response, is that they push themselves in practice and the gym to earn more minutes. If I wasn't willing to do that, I'd guess I'd try and transfer to UGA because that's a coach who often doesn't seem to base minutes on performance/production.
How about calling it transferring for playing time? I would want to know idf a coach thought there was little chance I would play. Players are free to leave for any reason.
I am not defending Crean, but Roth is the only player I thought was treated unfairly. If Crean was forcing people to leave, why did Priller stay for 4 years while April left after 1 year? Neither should have been offered a scholarship, but that is a different argument. I give April credit for hearing what his future was going to be and leaving.
I don't expect Archie will bring a kid to IU just to use up all 13 scholarships. I don't see Archie doing that. He addressed that in one of his first press conferences. If a player like Cujo decides he can do better at another school, they should leave. We don't know the reasons every player has left since we aren't inside the program. The Roth situation looked bad, and was handled badly. Creek is the only other player that left early from the Crean era that I missed. Yes, that includes Perea, Davis, and Holt. They were dumb and got caught.
To clarify I doubt he'd ever do that to a player he had recruited. The problem most had with Crean is that he offered guys like Priller, Gelon, April, David Williams, etc who never should have been offered in the first place. Obviously mistakes happen and not every guy will pan out but Archie never would've offered any of the guys I mentioned .
I believe this in general because he kept Al Durham and let McKinley Wright go who turned out to be one of the best freshman point guards in the country that we definitely could have used.
By all accounts Gelon was not a div 1 prospect, like Priller. Unlike Priller he was a sophomore so... that's a three year scholly vs Priller who had one year left and it was May.
Gelon must have been really overmatched because he didn't transfer until Archie could fully evaluate him. So I have no doubt that he was told he'd never see the floor.
FYI Gelon is not playing basketball anymore at any college level just a year later. I believe he went into the military after sniffing around a couple of programs.
The coaching staff at VU saw Gelon play in one of the warm up games for the Indiana/Kentucky all star games. One of the coaches at that time was my cousin that wanted to see why IU had offered a scholarship to a kid that the juco wasn't interested in. He told me that nothing he saw before and nothing he saw that weekend proved he was a D1 or D2 player.
It was much easier for Crean to offer a kid a scholarship than it was for Archie to be honest with a kid that he was not close to being a D1 player. Stop feeling sorry for Grant. Gelon and Priller both knew they were never going to play. Blame it on poor recruiting practices of the previous staff.
Okay let's get this all straight, again.
Oversigning is signing a 14th commit. Which is allowed by the rules, if the team can show just reason. Crean only oversigned once. Players transferring, like Curtis did, or Gelon being told to go take his middle school level skills elsewhere is common, it's simply called a transfer. We were not over committed on either example.
What Crean did was over-commit, and over-recruit. Meaning he would have more players committed than roster spots were open and then had a vast amount of transfers. He did this from 2003 on where it was given the description "Creaning" by Wisconsin fans.
It caused Crean to have transfers over the national average and far over the conference average. He led the conference in transfers per year. I once tracked it including over committing (hard to do because rosters are ever evolving for some schools) and he was the leader in transfer on average nationally in a five year period, then gave up because it was moot and too much work.
We've had two transfers in two years. Below national average. Which is appx 2.3 per team per year. Crean also had numerous walk ons transfer, including FWO, which is ugh weird.
Most new coaches have extensive transfers either in the first year, or second, we've had two.
Anyone complaining or accusing Arch of having the same disingenuous recruiting tactics as the Tangerine Tweaker is most likely a person who thinks orange people are truthful and competent. Hint: that they're orange in the first place should tell you something.
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Is Phinisee tall/big/mean enough to play pack line defense or is it too early to tell?
PG doesn't have to be tall, though it helps, quickness is the better trait. His job is to pressure the ball-handler, not to rotate to shooters, so he needs to be solid and have good foot speed especially laterally. Packline requires quick points, tall wings, and long mobile posts.
To be clear: I was referencing 2014.
OG and Juwan were signed, Crean was still recruiting Thomas Bryant and Thon Maker, and we had no seniors or pro prospects.
THAT is oversigning.
No it's over-committing and over-recruiting.
Dammit, we just went through this. vbg
VanPastorMan
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Do you think Priller ever was told those things? The guy probably just smiled and said, "I'll be at practice."
If he wasn't improving he would have done transferred. I could see him having his moments next year.
Not at all sure that's what his 'game' really lacks. May help, but it won't make him faster, more aware or genuinely athletic. Not writing him off, but ultimately there's a big difference between conditioning and actual talent. But as strength doesn't come for free, and the desire/discipline that earns it counts for a lot, most anything is possible - more so if he's smart. We'll see.
Report from someone following their workouts. If I am misinformed you can slam me later
He's very mobile for his size, athletic and quicker than most in his position. He also has a knack for blocking shots, jumping after the defender releases. That's a very desirable trait. There's a reason he was some pro projection mention, and that's the major one.
He has substantial potential. You're also underestimating his abilities and skills. Cliff is skilled. ie passing, shooting, dribbling. Again, for a big.
Awareness, now you have something. That's a huge weakness currently or was last year. And, yes the extra weight will help him most especially if it's lower body.
His biggest issue was his footwork, he has happy feet, doesn;t understand defensive big man footwork, which makes him seem very uncoordinated when he's actually not and he is out position constantly because of it. His second is just comfort and confidence which may be due to playing a position he's fairly new to. Which may be causing all the aforementioned issues above. Remember, he was a guard who had a growth spurt. Completely different game especially defensively. He was also way too skinny.
Don't write him off just yet. Of all the forwards on roster currently, Moore probably has the most pro potential. If he ever meets his potential is yet to be seen. He's not behind the curve, most 4 star bigs do not get extensive minutes until their junior year on average and like him rarely played as frosh.
Yes he looked very out of sorts last year but let's give him a chance for his mind to catch up to his body.
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As may be, inclined to take your word for it. Never one to write off anyone on the Team, only observed/imagined that at the time he and his classmates arrived at IU he seemed the least ready to play. Wasn't aware of his history, only watched some videos and saw a big guy who mostly looked clumsy and out of his depth. Would love to be shown otherwise/proven wrong.
Like to hear more about Moore adding strength. Anybody have good intel on Moore? If he develops he could really help. Thx in advance.
There were some father and son camp posts on various sites about him saying he was up to 230-235. He came in at what...210?
Cliff told this poster he's on a 6000 calorie a day diet. Lol
TMP nailed him a few posts back. His footwork is rough and he's still a little confused on what to do but he's really talented and has physical gifts (he's very long). Not sure he's explosive, but he is probably our lengthiest player (Crean would touch himself over a kids wingspan, which isn't a bad thing) and he's rumored to be one of our best students academically...so he ain't no dummy.
He had a growth spurt and he didn't play in a competitive summer circuit in high school so... he's got some catching up to do.
When Archie says he's extremely talented with a high ceiling but is currently like a deer on ice... I believe him and can wait to see if he blossoms as an upperclassman.
I don't have any expectations for this year other than a slight minutes bump and be in that last group of the rotation, and that's okay.
190, got to 210 after arriving. And he's not severely athletic but shows great timing on blocking shots.
Don't trust me on this trust our coach. Scholarships are like gold to him and Clifton originally asked out of his LOI and Arch convinced him to come back. I doubt he did it without evaluation or based on some misplaced loyalty. There's a reason he's on our roster, our coach wants him to be.
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