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Anybody know who's behind the no-annexation bill?

UncleMark

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A midnight amendment to the state budget bill was specifically targeted at Bloomington's annexation proposal. Speculation has Cook behind it.

Any of you statehouse connected people know the scoop?

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/ne...cle_fba0a13c-2789-11e7-adcc-6b88d61579f8.html

Bloomington’s annexation plan effectively was killed early Saturday when the Indiana House approved a biennial budget bill that included language targeting the controversial proposal to absorb approximately 9,500 acres and nearly 15,000 people into the city.

The budget bill, approved by the House before adjourning for the year just prior to 1 a.m. Saturday, contained a section inserted during conference committee proceedings that terminates annexation ordinances under consideration by the Bloomington City Council and prohibits any further effort to annex that property until after June 20, 2022.
 
A midnight amendment to the state budget bill was specifically targeted at Bloomington's annexation proposal. Speculation has Cook behind it.

Any of you statehouse connected people know the scoop?

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/ne...cle_fba0a13c-2789-11e7-adcc-6b88d61579f8.html
I read a compelling essay many years ago, written by, of all people, James Michener, which argued that one of the worst things for a city was a state's unwillingness to allow annexation. He believed that Pennsylvania's reticence to let Philly expand was largely to blame for keeping resources out of Philly proper, and that if the city had been allowed to annex the suburbs, the entire metro area would have been better off.
 
Not a midnight amendment. Those non annexation provisions have floated through the legislature as part of HB 1450 and only got put in the budget at the end of the session.
That sounds like pretty much the definition of a midnight amendment. What's it matter what other bill the provisions were previously attached to?
 
Not a midnight amendment. Those non annexation provisions have floated through the legislature as part of HB 1450 and only got put in the budget at the end of the session.
Whatever. Who is behind it? What legislator? And who is the puppeteer?
 
I read a compelling essay many years ago, written by, of all people, James Michener, which argued that one of the worst things for a city was a state's unwillingness to allow annexation. He believed that Pennsylvania's reticence to let Philly expand was largely to blame for keeping resources out of Philly proper, and that if the city had been allowed to annex the suburbs, the entire metro area would have been better off.

Government fighting government over the right to tax the citizenry.

The Founders were wise.

Fight the Gavel!!
 
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Whatever. Who is behind it? What legislator? And who is the puppeteer?
Rumors I have heard are Jeff Ellington and Steve Ferguson.

People in my area were mostly angry, but I don't know why. We moved here in 93, and I expected to be annexed then. Our area was built in the "2 mile fringe" time, so we were required to have city water, sewer, curbs, and sidewalks. That all seems to scream annexation is coming.

I get no one WANTS to pay $200-300 more per year in taxes. But in my mind, we all choose to live next to Bloomington for a reason. We must like it. There are tons of locations all over the world not immediately adjacent to Bloomington we could choose to be. So if we like Bloomington, why not become a part when it is our turn?
 
Whatever. Who is behind it? What legislator? And who is the puppeteer?
This one answer and then no more detailed discussion.

The conduct and attitude of the City of Bloomington including its mayor so offended the legislature that Bloomington got slapped down. The provision applies only to Bloomington, is retroactive and bars Bloomington from all annexation of any kind for 5 years. It written in specific terms. That will be the last I say on this subject.
 
This one answer and then no more detailed discussion.

The conduct and attitude of the City of Bloomington including its mayor so offended the legislature that Bloomington got slapped down. The provision applies only to Bloomington, is retroactive and bars Bloomington from all annexation of any kind for 5 years. It written in specific terms. That will be the last I say on this subject.


I guess I'd prefer my legislature to legislate on facts and not personal vendettas.
 
when govt is for sale, and what govt is more for sale than one controlled by the Indiana state GOP, it will be bought.

if it was Cook, (which seems a logical place to look), we can assume the price paid was less than the increase would have been to their property tax bill.
 
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I get no one WANTS to pay $200-300 more per year in taxes.
The problem is that a lot of time you pay more taxes and get absolutely nothing in return. I live close to Greenwood and they want to annex everything but if they build a park or anything for Greenwood citizens it always goes in the original city limits of Greenwood and never in any of the annexed areas.
 
The problem is that a lot of time you pay more taxes and get absolutely nothing in return. I live close to Greenwood and they want to annex everything but if they build a park or anything for Greenwood citizens it always goes in the original city limits of Greenwood and never in any of the annexed areas.
In theory we would have gained city police and fire. No offense to the Sheriff's office, but they have fewer patrols out over a larger geographic area than the city does. And no offense to the volunteer firefighters, but I would hazard a guess the full-time pros are better trained and equipped. So in our case, in theory, we would gain something even if they didn't build a park.

I don't think they would build a park near me, the city bought land here long ago (100+years) to try and create a water source for the city. It was used for some time, but failed eventually. They turned it into a park a few years ago. So I already live closer to that park than 99.9% of city residents.

What would have been interesting, the city is Democratic. But these annex areas are Republican. Bringing in a net couple thousand Republicans would have made the city competitive. Politically, I think Democrats are probably happy someone stopped it.
 
This one answer and then no more detailed discussion.
So you either don't know or won't tell. Fair enough.

What's curious is why no one is willing to stand up and claim the credit for thwarting such an egregious land grab by the mayor. You'd think it a point of pride.
 
The problem is that a lot of time you pay more taxes and get absolutely nothing in return. I live close to Greenwood and they want to annex everything but if they build a park or anything for Greenwood citizens it always goes in the original city limits of Greenwood and never in any of the annexed areas.

If you are also a Center Grove resident, we are in a pickle. The commercial property has been annexed by Greenwood and Bargersville. The only thing left is residential. Expect a hefty school property tax referendum. Staying an unincorporated township will bite us eventually.
 
The problem is that a lot of time you pay more taxes and get absolutely nothing in return.
Call me stupid, but I'm fine with it. I'm poor white trailer trash, living in a trailer park. My property taxes are pocket change. They could double and I would barely feel it, but I suspect my lot rent will go up, since the park owner's taxes will probably increase. I have a county park directly across the street, and a fire station directly behind me. The trailer park is already on city sewer and water. So there's nothing in it for me, except for paying a little more for the greater good of the community I live in. Like I said, I must be stupid.
 
So you either don't know or won't tell. Fair enough.

What's curious is why no one is willing to stand up and claim the credit for thwarting such an egregious land grab by the mayor. You'd think it a point of pride.



I do know. Its not for me to claim. I didn't do it. Its up to those who supported the legislation to take credit if they'd like, not me.
 
So you either don't know or won't tell. Fair enough.
I do know. Its not for me to claim. I didn't do it. Its up to those who supported the legislation to take credit if they'd like, not me.
Okay, then that would be "won't tell".

I didn't think you did it (that would imply you have influence and actually are somebody). I just find it curious that whoever pulled it off doesn't want to own up to it, being that they were righting such an injustice and all.
 
This one answer and then no more detailed discussion.

The conduct and attitude of the City of Bloomington including its mayor so offended the legislature that Bloomington got slapped down. The provision applies only to Bloomington, is retroactive and bars Bloomington from all annexation of any kind for 5 years. It written in specific terms. That will be the last I say on this subject.
Thanks for the dramatic announcement.

WTF?
 
The problem is that a lot of time you pay more taxes and get absolutely nothing in return.
A lot of times you're already getting things you're not paying your fair share for. Transportation, for example. A lot of people live in suburbs, but work downtown, and make use of roads paid for by people who live in the city.
 
Okay, then that would be "won't tell".

I didn't think you did it (that would imply you have influence and actually are somebody). I just find it curious that whoever pulled it off doesn't want to own up to it, being that they were righting such an injustice and all.

“ 'It’s always appropriate when you take your citizens’ concerns and help them,...' said Ellington" was in the Herald-Times article.
 
This one answer and then no more detailed discussion.

The conduct and attitude of the City of Bloomington including its mayor so offended the legislature that Bloomington got slapped down. The provision applies only to Bloomington, is retroactive and bars Bloomington from all annexation of any kind for 5 years. It written in specific terms. That will be the last I say on this subject.
For a supposed insider, you sure got a lot of things wrong in that post.
 
Okay, then that would be "won't tell".

I didn't think you did it (that would imply you have influence and actually are somebody). I just find it curious that whoever pulled it off doesn't want to own up to it, being that they were righting such an injustice and all.
This shouldn't be hard. Just figure out which legislator lives in the affected area. Five bucks says it was done at his request.
 
“ 'It’s always appropriate when you take your citizens’ concerns and help them,...' said Ellington" was in the Herald-Times article.
Saw that. Which means he supported the amendment. I'd like to know who actually got it inserted it into the budget bill in the conference committee. I don't know if Ellington has that much pull. I was under the impression that these last minute, under the cover of darkness additions could only be done by leadership or those with some real influence. But like I say, I don't claim to know anything. That's why I'm asking. Looks like the one guy who claims to know all about this kind of shit isn't talking. (Or doesn't know and won't admit it.)
 
Saw that. Which means he supported the amendment. I'd like to know who actually got it inserted it into the budget bill in the conference committee. I don't know if Ellington has that much pull. I was under the impression that these last minute, under the cover of darkness additions could only be done by leadership or those with some real influence. But like I say, I don't claim to know anything. That's why I'm asking. Looks like the one guy who claims to know all about this kind of shit isn't talking. (Or doesn't know and won't admit it.)
Well, since he couldn't even accurately describe the language of the amendment, I'm going to put my money on "doesn't know and won't admit it."
 
A lot of times you're already getting things you're not paying your fair share for. Transportation, for example. A lot of people live in suburbs, but work downtown, and make use of roads paid for by people who live in the city.
That's a two way street though...it's not like all those city folks just stay in the city.
 
In theory we would have gained city police and fire. No offense to the Sheriff's office, but they have fewer patrols out over a larger geographic area than the city does. And no offense to the volunteer firefighters, but I would hazard a guess the full-time pros are better trained and equipped. So in our case, in theory, we would gain something even if they didn't build a park.

I don't think they would build a park near me, the city bought land here long ago (100+years) to try and create a water source for the city. It was used for some time, but failed eventually. They turned it into a park a few years ago. So I already live closer to that park than 99.9% of city residents.

What would have been interesting, the city is Democratic. But these annex areas are Republican. Bringing in a net couple thousand Republicans would have made the city competitive. Politically, I think Democrats are probably happy someone stopped it.


It's a hefty price to pay for police service that you MAY use once in twenty years and it will always be after the bad dead has been done. Unless of course you are worried that a cop isn't at an accident scene fast enough to get the license and registration.

As far as fire, you should hope your shut burns down so you don't have to pay to remove the half burnt structure before paying to rebuild. Most times the difference in a 4 minute and 6 minute response time can be a good thing.

And don't give me the drivel of "what if you are inside"... 1 in 10,000,000 shot at making it anyway.
 
This one answer and then no more detailed discussion.

The conduct and attitude of the City of Bloomington including its mayor so offended the legislature that Bloomington got slapped down. The provision applies only to Bloomington, is retroactive and bars Bloomington from all annexation of any kind for 5 years. It written in specific terms. That will be the last I say on this subject.

I wish it'd be the last you say on any subject.

You lay in bed with the most corrupt, despicable individuals in this state. Why is the state legislature even getting involved in a local matter?

Because they are just like you. Miserable, partisan, corrupt hacks.



Has my disgust for the Indiana State Legislature been made clear enough to everyone? What cockroaches.
 
That's a two way street though...it's not like all those city folks just stay in the city.

I live in Marion county...we take on income tax rates that are double what the donut counties pay....that's created a vibrant city (particularly compared with 30 years ago) that drives the economy of the entirety of central Indiana.

If I were king.....all 8 counties would become 1. And I grew up in Johnson, and lived in Hamilton for 10 years....so I've seen all sides of it.
 
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Well, since he couldn't even accurately describe the language of the amendment, I'm going to put my money on "doesn't know and won't admit it."
I intentionally did not include the actual language. I said it would be general and my remarks were general.
I wish it'd be the last you say on any subject.

You lay in bed with the most corrupt, despicable individuals in this state. Why is the state legislature even getting involved in a local matter?

Because they are just like you. Miserable, partisan, corrupt hacks.



Has my disgust for the Indiana State Legislature been made clear enough to everyone? What cockroaches.
Homework. Local units of government ONLY exist under legislation adopted by the General Assembly. They are all literally creatures of the state. Annexation ONLY exists pursuant to law enacted by the General Assembly. IF the legislature had not enacted an annexation statute, no city or town would have any authority to annex any parcel of property outside their jurisdiction at all. One of those local units behaved in such a way that the legislature took umbrage and stopped them with what was originally HB 1450 but the language ended up in the budget in conference committee and passed as part of the budget bill.

And 20-02, wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which gets full the fastest.
 
I intentionally did not include the actual language. I said it would be general and my remarks were general.
Well, your "general" remarks were still incorrect. You said:
The provision applies only to Bloomington, is retroactive and bars Bloomington from all annexation of any kind for 5 years.​
That is wrong. I'll give you a pass on the "applies only to Bloomington" bit. It doesn't, although it was clearly tailored to apply specifically to Bloomington in practice. But it is incorrect to say it bars Bloomington from all annexation of any kind for any length of time.
 
I intentionally did not include the actual language. I said it would be general and my remarks were general.

Homework. Local units of government ONLY exist under legislation adopted by the General Assembly. They are all literally creatures of the state. Annexation ONLY exists pursuant to law enacted by the General Assembly. IF the legislature had not enacted an annexation statute, no city or town would have any authority to annex any parcel of property outside their jurisdiction at all. One of those local units behaved in such a way that the legislature took umbrage and stopped them with what was originally HB 1450 but the language ended up in the budget in conference committee and passed as part of the budget bill.

And 20-02, wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which gets full the fastest.

had they just wanted to annex the residential, there would have been no problem with the state legislature.

the state legislature doesn't represent the citizenry.

the problem occurred when they wanted to annex big business as well.

at that point, they were messing with who the state legislature DOES represent.
 
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had they just wanted to annex the residential, there would have been no problem with the state legislature.

the state legislature doesn't represent the citizenry.

the problem occurred when they wanted to annex big business as well.

at that point, they were messing with who the state legislature DOES represent.

Here's the language from the budget bill. It passed and will become law when the Governor signs it. You figure it out.

SECTION 161. IC 36-4-3-11.8 IS ADDED TO THE INDIANA CODE AS A NEW SECTION TO 16 READ AS FOLLOWS [EFFECTIVE APRIL 30, 2017 (RETROACTIVE)]: Sec. 11.8. (a) This section 17 does not apply to an annexation that meets both of the following requirements: 18 (1) The annexation is an annexation under section 4(a)(2), 4(a)(3), 4(b), 4(h), 5, or 5.1 of this 19 chapter. 20 (2) No parcel within the annexation territory is subject to a waiver of remonstrance. 21 (b) This section does not apply to an annexation and annexation ordinance that is adopted and 22 effective before April 30, 2017. 23 (c) This section applies to property that meets both of the following requirements: 24 (1) Is in an unincorporated area on January 1, 2017. 25 (2) Is within the boundaries of a territory proposed to be annexed in an annexation ordinance 26 that was introduced after December 31, 2016, and before July 1, 2017. 27 (d) An annexation ordinance that is introduced after December 31, 2016, and before July 1,2017, 28 that proposes to annex property to which this section applies is void and the annexation action is 29 terminated. A municipality may not take any further action to annex any of the property to which 30 this section applies until after June 30, 2022, including introducing another annexation ordinance 31 covering some or all of the property covered by this section after June 30, 2017, and before July 1, 32 2022.
 
had they just wanted to annex the residential, there would have been no problem with the state legislature.

the state legislature doesn't represent the citizenry.

the problem occurred when they wanted to annex big business as well.

at that point, they were messing with who the state legislature DOES represent.
Yeah, it doesn't take a genius to realize that the business interest cited by the bill's author was Cook.
 
I intentionally did not include the actual language. I said it would be general and my remarks were general.

Homework. Local units of government ONLY exist under legislation adopted by the General Assembly. They are all literally creatures of the state. Annexation ONLY exists pursuant to law enacted by the General Assembly. IF the legislature had not enacted an annexation statute, no city or town would have any authority to annex any parcel of property outside their jurisdiction at all. One of those local units behaved in such a way that the legislature took umbrage and stopped them with what was originally HB 1450 but the language ended up in the budget in conference committee and passed as part of the budget bill.

And 20-02, wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which gets full the fastest.

So you basically admit that the piles of excrement you work for are easily accessible to the highest bidder?

They don't even bother to hide the corruption in this state. They don't care. Nor do you.
 
in their defense, Cook does great things for Btown, and are a huge plus for the community.

my beef isn't with Cook, they are just doing what they are allowed to do, and it's just business.

my beef is with the legislature.

sorry the city and Cook couldn't have worked something out first.

that said, as for Joe Homeowner, it's only natural to not want to be annexed, if you already get the upsides without the downsides.

and while taxes are foremost, Joe Homeowner also enjoys the greater freedoms of not having to bend to all the city's rules and regs.

when was the last time an area didn't fight annexation?
 
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Here's the language from the budget bill. It passed and will become law when the Governor signs it. You figure it out.

SECTION 161. IC 36-4-3-11.8 IS ADDED TO THE INDIANA CODE AS A NEW SECTION TO 16 READ AS FOLLOWS [EFFECTIVE APRIL 30, 2017 (RETROACTIVE)]: Sec. 11.8. (a) This section 17 does not apply to an annexation that meets both of the following requirements: 18 (1) The annexation is an annexation under section 4(a)(2), 4(a)(3), 4(b), 4(h), 5, or 5.1 of this 19 chapter. 20 (2) No parcel within the annexation territory is subject to a waiver of remonstrance. 21 (b) This section does not apply to an annexation and annexation ordinance that is adopted and 22 effective before April 30, 2017. 23 (c) This section applies to property that meets both of the following requirements: 24 (1) Is in an unincorporated area on January 1, 2017. 25 (2) Is within the boundaries of a territory proposed to be annexed in an annexation ordinance 26 that was introduced after December 31, 2016, and before July 1, 2017. 27 (d) An annexation ordinance that is introduced after December 31, 2016, and before July 1,2017, 28 that proposes to annex property to which this section applies is void and the annexation action is 29 terminated. A municipality may not take any further action to annex any of the property to which 30 this section applies until after June 30, 2022, including introducing another annexation ordinance 31 covering some or all of the property covered by this section after June 30, 2017, and before July 1, 32 2022.

i don't speak legal, but i'm guessing this basically says, other cities, like say Carmel, can annex who they want, but not Bloomington, and not now.
 
i don't speak legal, but i'm guessing this basically says, other cities, like say Carmel, can annex who they want, but not Bloomington, and not now.
Basically. What it actually says is this:

Any annexation process started in a certain six-month time frame is automatically voided, and the city that started that process cannot start a new process for any of the properties covered by the voided annexation for five years.

In practice, Bloomington is the only city that started a process in that time period, as far as anyone can tell (so far; technically a city that starts an annexation process between now and July 1 would be subject to the ban, too).
 
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