Antifa....

[IUCrazy2]

Or that point when all of the talking points used to dismiss conservative complaints against them come crashing down...

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/01/antifa-charlottesville-violence-fbi-242235

Previously unreported documents disclose that by April 2016, authorities believed that “anarchist extremists” were the primary instigators of violence at public rallies against a range of targets. They were blamed by authorities for attacks on the police, government and political institutions, along with symbols of “the capitalist system,” racism, social injustice and fascism, according to a confidential 2016 joint intelligence assessment by DHS and the FBI.

An entire article supporting what I was saying last week. Both sides are responsible for the increase in violence. Antifa is even seen as the "primary instigators" and do have a type of decentralized leadership. They use domestic terrorism against their opponents. Come again on how they are any different from neo Nazis other than the reason they choose to hate.

I will be serving crow at 7. A good majority of you running around calling people racists for holding the same opinion of these guys as the Obama administration FBI and DHS are welcome to a large serving.

 

[T.M.P.]

how they are any different from neo Nazis .

 

[IUBBALLAWOL]

Or that point when all of the talking points used to dismiss conservative complaints against them come crashing down...

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/01/antifa-charlottesville-violence-fbi-242235

Previously unreported documents disclose that by April 2016, authorities believed that “anarchist extremists” were the primary instigators of violence at public rallies against a range of targets. They were blamed by authorities for attacks on the police, government and political institutions, along with symbols of “the capitalist system,” racism, social injustice and fascism, according to a confidential 2016 joint intelligence assessment by DHS and the FBI.

An entire article supporting what I was saying last week. Both sides are responsible for the increase in violence. Antifa is even seen as the "primary instigators and do have a type of decentralized leadership. They use domestic terrorism against their opponents. Cone again on how they are any different from neo Nazis other than the reason they choose to hate.

I will be serving crow at 7. A good majority of you running around calling people racists for holding the same opinion of these guys as the Obama administration FBI and DHS are welcome to a large serving.

Antifa would never cause any harm. Besides they support the pubs right?

 

[stollcpa]

So you're defending the Nazis. Got it!

Sorry craz. I thought I got this out of the way but I forgot to call you a Nazi too. I forgot White Nationalist. You're a White Nationalist.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Come again on how they are any different from neo Nazis

Incredible.

 

[IUCrazy2]

And Antifa is a group of communist anarchists. I have plenty of photos of The Cultural Revolution, The Killing Fields of Cambodia, Stalinist Atrocities across the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. Two ideologies responsible for terrible atrocities against humanity who are fighting each other in the streets. Exactly my point. They are all horrible people. Main difference being you, Goat, Rock, et. al. go out of your way to defend one group while the rest of us are saying that Nazis are terrible and so too are these guys.

Nazis suck.

Said with no qualifiers. The next one of you to say Antifa sucks without a "but" or a rationalization after it will be the first. You guys are so entrenched in your position that you cannot come to the side of Nancy Pelosi and Barack Obama's White House.

 

[stollcpa]

@TheOriginalHappyGoat you can keep deleting my sarcastic posts. I am going to protest and keep posting them because I am sick of you bastards playing the race card. Craz and other more cultured conservatives can agrue with you guys with well written grammatically correct posts. I am just an uncouth ole Amish Boy with bad granmer who's gonna keep calling out the race baiting crap.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

@TheOriginalHappyGoat you can keep deleting my sarcastic posts. I am going to protest and keep posting them because I am sick of you bastards playing the race card. Craz and other more cultured conservatives can agrue with you guys with well written grammatically correct posts. I am just an uncouth ole Amish Boy with bad granmer who's gonna keep calling the race baiting crap.

You want to taunt the mods again, now? Fine. Let's call the previous two "strikes." Next time you type "libtard," you're banned. Got it?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

And Antifa is a group of communist anarchists. I have plenty of photos of The Cultural Revolution, The Killing Fields of Cambodia, Stalinist Atrocities across the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. Two ideologies responsible for terrible atrocities against humanity who are fighting each other in the streets. Exactly my point. They are all horrible people. Main difference being you, Goat, Rock, et. al. go out of your way to defend one group while the rest of us are saying that Nazis are terrible and so too are these guys.

Nazis suck.

Said with no qualifiers. The next one of you to say Antifa sucks without a "but" or a rationalization after it will be the first. You guys are so entrenched in your position that you cannot come to the side of Nancy Pelosi and Barack Obama's White House.

Antifa is opposed to fascism. It is not pro-Stalin, pro-Pol Pot, etc. This is what you continue to refuse to understand. The equivalence you are insisting on doesn't exist. The only thing bad with (some) Antifa is the occasional resort to violence. Nazis are evil to the core. There are good Antifa. There are no good Nazis. Why you need to find an equivalence to denounce Nazis is mind-boggling.

Oh, and "And so are these guys" is a qualifier. Denouncing Nazis without any need to find a leftist bogeyman to pair with them, now that would be refreshing.

 

[stollcpa]

You want to taunt the mods again, now? Fine. Let's call the previous two "strikes." Next time you type "libtard," you're banned. Got it?

Don't ban me until I get confirmation on the unacceptable word from Jordan. I've asked him to add racist to your banned word list.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Why on earth are you people so hung up on arguing this subject. Both groups suck. I'll admit to a special dislike of the group that tried to steal the ark and kill Indiana Jones, but if people want to be more offended by antifa, so be it.

 

[wiede]

Antifa is opposed to fascism. It is not pro-Stalin, pro-Pol Pot, etc. This is what you continue to refuse to understand. The equivalence you are insisting on doesn't exist. The only thing bad with (some) Antifa is the occasional resort to violence. Nazis are evil to the core. There are good Antifa. There are no good Nazis. Why you need to find an equivalence to denounce Nazis is mind-boggling.

Oh, and "And so are these guys" is a qualifier. Denouncing Nazis without any need to find a leftist bogeyman to pair with them, now that would be refreshing.

Why is there such a strong need on the right to create a false equivalency among Anifa and the "alt-left" (a right wing created concept, BTW) to white nationalists/nazis?

It amazes me that you guys can't see the flaw in your logic. Anifa exists SOLELY TO PROTEST THE RISING TIDE OF WHITE NATIONALISTS/NAZIS that Are clearly more emboldened as Trump continues to play footsie with them. Their underlying purpose isn't hatred or racism- it's actually anti-hatred and racism. The white nationalists/alt-right/nazis exist solely to create and spread hatred/racism.

It's a simple concept. Without the white nationalists/alt-right/nazi @ssholes, Anifa would cease to exist. To equate the two is ridiculous, and it's a massive error in logic to equate the two. The only purpose equating the two sides is to make the bad guys seem less bad. That's it.

In other words, I think some of us are more interested in being right rather than acknowledging that the two aren't the same. Because Fox News/breitbart/drudge push the false narrative, because the bad guys make up a significant portion (minority, but still significant) of the consumers of their drivel.

It's two different concepts. Like goat said, not all Anifa are bad. All the white nationalists/nazis/alt-right folks are bad. And equating the two only serves as a case of whataboutsism, which is used to minimize the "badness" of the bad guys.

Again, I ask this question. Why the desire to equate the two? What does it accomplish other than minimizing the hateful ideology of the bad guys?

Is it simply the need to feel right, or something deeper (tribalism in politics ruling the day)?

Again, No one here has EVER said that violence is good. And the few Anifa folks that engage in violence are dead wrong. But comparing the rogue few within anifa to the much larger (with much more dangerous ideology) bad guys only serves to minimize the bad guys and their abhorrent behavior.

*** of course anybody that engages in violence should be denounced.

 

[Thyrsis]

Why on earth are you people so hung up on arguing this subject. Both groups suck. I'll admit to a special dislike of the group that tried to steal the ark and kill Indiana Jones, but if people want to be more offended by antifa, so be it.

Maybe this is an important question. It seems like this thread sums up a lot.

To answer YOUR question, I'd say the "disagreement" isn't about whether both groups suck. It's about whether a viewpoint is comprehended. I'm thinking the answer to that question matters.

 

[Lucy01]

Don't ban me until I get confirmation on the unacceptable word from Jordan. I've asked him to add racist to your banned word list.

I think it's time for a Twisted Sister song

 

[stollcpa]

It's about whether a viewpoint is comprehended. I'm thinking the answer to that question matters.

There you go.

 

[Thyrsis]

**** you. That is all you are worth.

So, in line with what I said to Marvin just above, can you explain Rockfish's point of view?

You're not really disagreeing with it if you don't know what it is. It might be helpful to articulate Rockfish's position before you knock it down.

 

[wiede]

Maybe this is an important question. It seems like this thread sums up a lot.

To answer YOUR question, I'd say the "disagreement" isn't about whether both groups suck. It's about whether a viewpoint is comprehended. I'm thinking the answer to that question matters.

Exactly. Well said. In short...No one supports violence. But not everyone on here understands that the two groups aren't two sides of the same coin.

And even worse, some don't understand how trying to equate the two minimizes the "badness" in the ideology of the White nationalists/alt-right/nazis.

 

[Rockfish1]

Certainly not like an experienced fired moderator. I am observing and trying to learn from you if I don't get banned. BTW are you a member of Peegs new site?

Why don't you take up Thyrsis's challenge? Explain what my POV is on this, so you can demonstrate why this thread refutes it.

 

[Thyrsis]

Don't ban me until I get confirmation on the unacceptable word from Jordan. I've asked him to add racist to your banned word list.

Definitions sorta matter in these arguments.

What does the word "racism" mean to you?

I don't mean that in a touchy-feely sense. I meant that in a definitional sense. Folks here say they don't like the word racist being thrown around.

So, in addition to what YOU think the word "racism" means, what do you think those who are throwing it around mean by that term?

 

[twenty02]

Good grief people. Everyone should have a drink.

 

[Rockfish1]

Why on earth are you people so hung up on arguing this subject. Both groups suck. I'll admit to a special dislike of the group that tried to steal the ark and kill Indiana Jones, but if people want to be more offended by antifa, so be it.

The board's not-racists are once again attacking a straw man because they can't comprehend, let alone engage, the points they imagine they're responding to.

 

[stollcpa]

Why don't you take up Thyrsis's challenge? Explain what my POV is on this, so ythis thread refutes it.

Why does anyone have to bow down and explain anything you post? You're treat anyone you disagree with as inferior.

 

[Thyrsis]

Why does anyone have to bow down and explain anything you post? You're treat anyone you disagree with as inferior.

I explained why.

It's not bowing down to Rockfish.

It's engaging in discourse.

 

[stollcpa]

Definitions sorta matter in these arguments.

What does the word "racism" mean to you?

I don't mean that in a touchy-feely sense. I meant that in a definitional sense. Folks here say they don't like the word racist being thrown around.

So, in addition to what YOU think the word "racism" means, what do you think those who are throwing it around mean by that term?

rac·ism
ˈrāˌsizəm/
noun

1. prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
   "a program to combat racism"
   synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice, xenophobia, chauvinism, bigotry, casteism
   "Aborigines are the main victims of racism in Australia"
   • the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
     noun: racism
     "theories of racism"

 

[Thyrsis]

rac·ism
ˈrāˌsizəm/
noun

1. prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
   "a program to combat racism"
   synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice, xenophobia, chauvinism, bigotry, casteism
   "Aborigines are the main victims of racism in Australia"
   • the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
     noun: racism
     "theories of racism"

OK, that's quoting the dictionary. That's something I guess.

But you didn't answer the second part.

 

[Rockfish1]

Why does anyone have to bow down and explain anything you post? You're treat anyone you disagree with as inferior.

See that's the problem right there. You imagine that you have to "bow down" to explain your argument. I explain my arguments all the time, but since I don't suffer a terminal case of butthurt, it never occurs to me that I'm bowing down when I do it.

 

[Rockfish1]

I explained why.

It's not bowing down to Rockfish.

It's engaging in discourse.

If I'm so obviously wrong that stoll can strut and taunt, then it ought to be a simple matter to explain my folly.

 

[stollcpa]

OK, that's quoting the dictionary. That's something I guess.

But you didn't answer the second part.

They mean what's in the definition and further more they do it to shut down discussion. You explain to me what wanting border security and an orderly immigration system has to do with racism? Explain to me why the word is thrown around here all the time?

 

[Thyrsis]

If I'm so obviously wrong that stoll can strut and taunt, then it ought to be a simple matter to explain my folly.

I think it would be interesting to hear more about what people think "racism" means.

stoll posted the dictionary definition and I'm betting he's concluded that the definition doesn't fit him. Maybe he should ask if people have a different definition than the one his dictionary provides.

 

[Thyrsis]

They mean what's in the definition and further more they do it to shut down discussion. You explain to me what wanting border security and an orderly immigration system has to do with racism? Explain to me why the word is thrown around here all the time?

How do you know if they mean what's in the dictionary?

How do you know they do it to shut down conversation?

 

[toastedbread]

OK, that's quoting the dictionary. That's something I guess.

But you didn't answer the second part.

Here's one... Anyone who supported the travel ban is a xenephobe.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

The board's not-racists are once again attacking a straw man because they can't comprehend, let alone engage, the points they imagine they're responding to.

In this case, the thread was the straw man. If someone wants to build up and knock down a straw man in their own thread, fine. If someone wants to do it in a different thread, point it out. I'm just not sure why people seem so angry at what seems a pretty weak thread to begin with.

 

[Thyrsis]

Here's one... Anyone who supported the travel ban is a xenephobe.

I don't think that really answers the questions I was asking.

And it uses a different word.

 

[Lucy01]

Here's one... Anyone who supported the travel ban is a xenephobe.

As the great Elvis Presley once said, Thank You, Thank You very much

 

[Thyrsis]

In this case, the thread was the straw man. If someone wants to build up and knock down a straw man in their own thread, fine. If someone wants to do it in a different thread, point it out. I'm just not sure why people seem so angry at what seems a pretty weak thread to begin with.

Like I said above, it's not about the straw man. I think it's because it's perceived as a total rejection of the existence of a contrary viewpoint.

 

[toastedbread]

As the great Elvis Presley once said, Thank You, Thank You very much

You are one of our proud xenephobes! Congrats!

 

[Thyrsis]

As the great Elvis Presley once said, Thank You, Thank You very much

I don't know what you're trying to communicate.

Not a criticism, just a comment.

 

[toastedbread]

I don't think that really answers the questions I was asking.

And it uses a different word.

Actually, I do think the word racist is thrown around far too frequently. The vast majority of accused racists are practicing xenephobia, or another form of bigotry other than racism. Not like that's any better, but hey they aren't racists!

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

In this case, the thread was the straw man. If someone wants to build up and knock down a straw man in their own thread, fine. If someone wants to do it in a different thread, point it out. I'm just not sure why people seem so angry at what seems a pretty weak thread to begin with.

OP was also an impolite invitation for those who disagree to come get what's coming to us.

 

[Thyrsis]

Actually, I do think the word racist is thrown around far too frequently. The vast majority of accused racists are practicing xenephobia, or another form of bigotry other than racism.

OK, but that still doesn't answer any of the questions.