And it begins.... Trump floats delaying election

TheOriginalHappyGoat

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Goat, the mayor of Portland who is responsible for law and order in his community found a federal force in his community thanks to our president.

After declaring a national emergency our president used funds earmarked by Congress for specific purposes to be used for his wall.

Upon declaring a national emergency who is to say our president will honor laws and precedents regarding elections which had formerly been the domain of the states.

Not saying he can pull it off. Just saying he might try.
Actually, you're on to something, there. Trump couldn't stop the election, short of declaring martial law and deploying troops to every polling location in the country. But it wouldn't be nearly as hard for him to stop the election in Portland. Of course, he probably doesn't care about Portland, but if he declared martial law in, say, Detroit, Philadelphia, Richmond, Milwaukee, Austin...

Not that I think he's actually going to do that, of course, but if he truly wanted to steal the election, that would be the way to do it.
 

UncleMark

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Actually, you're on to something, there. Trump couldn't stop the election, short of declaring martial law and deploying troops to every polling location in the country. But it wouldn't be nearly as hard for him to stop the election in Portland. Of course, he probably doesn't care about Portland, but if he declared martial law in, say, Detroit, Philadelphia, Richmond, Milwaukee, Austin...

Not that I think he's actually going to do that, of course, but if he truly wanted to steal the election, that would be the way to do it.
There would have to be a point where the military would refuse an illegal order. I'm thinking that might qualify.
 

Cream&Crimson

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So you’re saying Bush wasn’t vilified as racist?
I'm saying you're wrong by trying to, as usual, drag the thread down a rabbit hole of straw men, red herrings and distraction. The point of the thread is that Trump is putting the idea forward that the election should be delayed and apparently positioning himself to make the case that the November election was rigged if it doesn't go his way. You either agree with that notion or not.
 

StelioKantos

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I'm saying you're wrong by trying to, as usual, drag the thread down a rabbit hole of straw men, red herrings and distraction. The point of the thread is that Trump is putting the idea forward that the election should be delayed and apparently positioning himself to make the case that the November election was rigged if it doesn't go his way. You either agree with that notion or not.
no the rabbit hole was when someone started talking about bush’s presence at Lewis funeral and trumps abscence, that’s a change of subject

and why would I agree with the idea of the election being moved? Save for the aliens returning
 

CO. Hoosier

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Goat, the mayor of Portland who is responsible for law and order in his community found a federal force in his community thanks to our president.

After declaring a national emergency our president used funds earmarked by Congress for specific purposes to be used for his wall.

Upon declaring a national emergency who is to say our president will honor laws and precedents regarding elections which had formerly been the domain of the states.

Not saying he can pull it off. Just saying he might try.
I think this subject is nuts on several levels. First and foremost there is no single national election for the president to issue any orders about. This a point lost on all those who keep yammering about the national popular vote. All elections are run by the states and there are 50 of those. Period!

The tweet is a total nothingburger.
 

UncleMark

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My view is we can vote in person if we give more days to vote. Make it five days, social distancing and masks. But everyone has to show an ID. We want truthful elections.
I think you’re view is stupid
I actually gave VPM a Like. It's the first time in forever that he actually proposed something that wasn't totally nuts, and instead offered up a legitimate solution to the problem.

Damn, that was hard to type.
 

glmiu11

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I actually gave VPM a Like. It's the first time in forever that he actually proposed something that wasn't totally nuts, and instead offered up a legitimate solution to the problem.

Damn, that was hard to type.
So you’re against mail in voting? He didn’t suggest that. Something tells me he is.
If I’m wrong I apologize.
 
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UncleMark

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So you’re against mail in voting? He didn’t suggest that. Something tells me he is.
If I’m wrong I apologize.
No, I'm not. But having five voting days instead of one would go a long way toward making it safer and more convenient. It's not ideal, but it's not stupid. For VPM that's progress.
 
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Sobchak_Security

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The entire idea of voting fraud is so preposterous. It would require some massive coordinated conspiracy to have any legitimate impact..... across many, many different counties (where elections are run). And is sure to be sniffed out fairly easily.... such as the renegade volunteer in that House race in NC last cycle.

But our population loves a good conspiracy theory.... and we've got a master conspiracy theorist sitting in the White House.
It’s just a newer Republican boogeyman.
 

Neves

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I actually gave VPM a Like. It's the first time in forever that he actually proposed something that wasn't totally nuts, and instead offered up a legitimate solution to the problem.

Damn, that was hard to type.
Expanded access to early voting? Let's do it!
 
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StelioKantos

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No, I'm not. But having five voting days instead of one would go a long way toward making it safer and more convenient. It's not ideal, but it's not stupid. For VPM that's progress.
Safer?

If it’s safe to protest it’s safe to vote. Safety is bs
 

IUXC68

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Actually, you're on to something, there. Trump couldn't stop the election, short of declaring martial law and deploying troops to every polling location in the country. But it wouldn't be nearly as hard for him to stop the election in Portland. Of course, he probably doesn't care about Portland, but if he declared martial law in, say, Detroit, Philadelphia, Richmond, Milwaukee, Austin...

Not that I think he's actually going to do that, of course, but if he truly wanted to steal the election, that would be the way to do it.
Goat, you're a lawyer, as am I. You know better. The Constitution is pretty specific.
 

TheOriginalHappyGoat

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There would have to be a point where the military would refuse an illegal order. I'm thinking that might qualify.
Ultimately, the dual traditions of rule of law and civilian control of the military - traditions, which, it appears to me, our military leaders take very seriously - are the final bar to any would-be American dictator.

But as long as we're talking about Things That Will Never Happen, let's say the protests continue as we get close to November, and there are enough instances of clashes with police and property damage for McEnany's office to keep putting together highlight reels. If Trump used that to justify invoking the Insurrection Act, he could, in theory, deploy troops to specified areas even without the invitation of the relevant governors. Such a deployment may or may not be Constitutional (see Bush and Katrina), but it would almost certainly be facially legal. At any rate, I don't think the commanders would refuse such an order. They might refuse orders to shut down polling locations as obviously illegal, but perhaps Trump wouldn't really need to shut down the locations. Let the voting happen, but make sure there is enough of a troop presence to dramatically suppress turnout.
 

cosmickid

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Mail voting and absentee voting is not the same.
Can you explain the meaningful distinctions? Besides the terminology...

President Donald Trump continues to draw false distinctions between mail-in and absentee ballots, claiming the former are rife with voter fraud while the latter — which he has used as president — require a voter to go through “a very strict process. The equivalent of going to a voting machine, or maybe even sometimes better.”

Voting experts told us the verification process is the same for absentee and mail-in ballots, and many states consider them to be the same thing.

As many states attempt to ramp up mail-in ballot options in response to the coronavirus pandemic, Trump has positioned himself as a staunch opponent, claiming that if states expand mail-in voting it will result in a “rigged election.”

In a radio interview with Michael Savage on June 15, Trump warned that an expansion of mail-in ballots would increase “the chance of theft, where they steal them, they hold up mailmen, they take them out of mailboxes, they print them fraudulently.” Trump said a friend whose son died seven years ago told him that he recently received a ballot in his son’s name. “These mistakes are made by the millions,” Trump said.

Some in the media have pointed out the apparent hypocrisy of Trump’s position on mail-in voting, given that he voted by mail in the Florida primary this year.

In his interview with Savage, Trump said his criticism of mail-in ballots did not extend to “absentee” ballots like the one he has said he cast.

“Go to a voting booth and vote,” Trump said. “Unless you’re an absentee, in which case they have to go through a whole process. In order to vote, they have to go through a very strict process. The equivalent of going to a voting machine, or maybe even sometimes better.”

It’s not the first time Trump has made this false distinction. Asked in a press briefing on April 7 what the difference was between someone voting by mail in-state versus out-of-state, Trump claimed, “Well, there’s a big difference between somebody that’s out of state and does a ballot and everything is sealed, certified, and everything else.”

In fact, election officials say states use the same verification/certification process for absentee or mail-in ballots."

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/trumps-absentee-vs-mail-in-ballot-spin/?platform=hootsuite
 
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glmiu11

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No, I'm not. But having five voting days instead of one would go a long way toward making it safer and more convenient. It's not ideal, but it's not stupid. For VPM that's progress.
It’s stupid if he’s using that logic to argue against mail in voting. That’s my assumption. If I’m wrong I’m sorry
 

cosmickid

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Obama Clinton and Bush spoke,. and Carter sent a letter.

I wouldn't doubt everyone was happy that the clown show didn't show up.
And the Pastor that officiated is Raphael Warnock, who will give both Loeffler and Collins a tough battle in the Nov Special Election for one of GA's Senate seats...To date, he's outraised both, although Loeffler is pumping her own millions $$ in to her campaign...
 

UncleMark

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It’s stupid if he’s using that logic to argue against mail in voting. That’s my assumption. If I’m wrong I’m sorry
Expanded voting by mail is being touted as the way to make voting safer during the pandemic. I agree. That said, expanded live voting over a five day period would be a fivefold improvement over the status quo. So it's less than what you or I might want, but it's not stupid. Don't make me stick up for VPM any more, please. I'm getting queasy as it is.
 
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cosmickid

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As far as I know, letters sent like that informed people that they will be able to vote by mail, if they are voters, and that actual ballots will be sent to them if they follow the instructions contained herein. Actual ballots were not sent that way.

Given that election rules are a hidgepodge of local ordinances, some may do it differently. But AFAIK, many hoops have to be jumped through in order to vote by mail, anywhere.
As an example...

IN sent out applications to every registered voter, which you needed to sign and return if you wanted to receive an absentee/vote by mail ballot. The PSA they ran on tv said you must return it by noon Thurs (whatever date). For some reason, I kept procrastinating, and then finally traveled to the post office to make sure it was postmarked by noon on that date...

Two days later (on Sat) I received notice that my application was disqualified because they had not RECEIVED it by Thurs noon. All along I assumed it was like anything else- it had to be postmarked by the specific date and time.

The PSA (imho) was ambiguous, but it's my fault and I wasn't able to vote in the Primary. Lesson learned and I won't repeat the same mistake when it comes to voting against Trump. But it illustrates exactly how many hoops you have to jump thru just to vote by mail- much less the idea of trying to cheat.

Btw not a peep out of his Orangeness over the way Indiana provided mail in ballots. But when Michigan executed the exact same procedure in line with recently passed ballot initiatives that established at will mail in voting, Trump lost his shit. Hmmm, I wonder what the strategic difference is between Michigan and Indiana? :rolleyes:
 

IUXC68

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I don't think Trump cares much for the courts, either. At any rate, the scenario I'm talking about (which, again, I cannot stress enough, I do not actually think is going to happen) would do its damage before the courts could do anything about it.
The difference is that court orders are enforceable, and even though he may seek to interfere with that those agencies will do their jobs. In any event, I think that for many people this "conversation" has become sport, sort of like for another poster on this thread. Other than that, I hope that all has gone well for you personally. I remember our posts long ago about where you went to law school and where you had worked in your family's business.
 

CO. Hoosier

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Can you explain the meaningful distinctions? Besides the terminology...

President Donald Trump continues to draw false distinctions between mail-in and absentee ballots, claiming the former are rife with voter fraud while the latter — which he has used as president — require a voter to go through “a very strict process. The equivalent of going to a voting machine, or maybe even sometimes better.”

Voting experts told us the verification process is the same for absentee and mail-in ballots, and many states consider them to be the same thing.

As many states attempt to ramp up mail-in ballot options in response to the coronavirus pandemic, Trump has positioned himself as a staunch opponent, claiming that if states expand mail-in voting it will result in a “rigged election.”

In a radio interview with Michael Savage on June 15, Trump warned that an expansion of mail-in ballots would increase “the chance of theft, where they steal them, they hold up mailmen, they take them out of mailboxes, they print them fraudulently.” Trump said a friend whose son died seven years ago told him that he recently received a ballot in his son’s name. “These mistakes are made by the millions,” Trump said.

Some in the media have pointed out the apparent hypocrisy of Trump’s position on mail-in voting, given that he voted by mail in the Florida primary this year.

In his interview with Savage, Trump said his criticism of mail-in ballots did not extend to “absentee” ballots like the one he has said he cast.

“Go to a voting booth and vote,” Trump said. “Unless you’re an absentee, in which case they have to go through a whole process. In order to vote, they have to go through a very strict process. The equivalent of going to a voting machine, or maybe even sometimes better.”

It’s not the first time Trump has made this false distinction. Asked in a press briefing on April 7 what the difference was between someone voting by mail in-state versus out-of-state, Trump claimed, “Well, there’s a big difference between somebody that’s out of state and does a ballot and everything is sealed, certified, and everything else.”

In fact, election officials say states use the same verification/certification process for absentee or mail-in ballots."

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/trumps-absentee-vs-mail-in-ballot-spin/?platform=hootsuite
The main difference is infrastructure and process. Colorado has had an all mail system for several cycles now. I'm totally comfortable with it. If a state decided to do a mail vote now for November, I think there would be lot of problems to get the systems in place that fast. Most likely a special legislative session would be needed to enact the statutory process.

Absentee ballots are individual situations and each one requires individual handling. Even though Colorado is an all mail state, it has a separate system for absentee voting because the ballot won't be mailed to the registered address of the voter.
 
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cosmickid

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Safer?

If it’s safe to protest it’s safe to vote. Safety is bs

If it's safe to attend an indoor rally and listen to Trump spew nonsense for an hour, and try to drink a glass one-handed to prove he doesn't have palsy- then it's safe to vote.


Just ask Herman Cain. Not only did he attend sans mask, but he touted the "safety precautions" as well...

 

cosmickid

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The main difference is infrastructure and process. Colorado has had an all mail system for several cycles now. I'm totally comfortable with it. If a state decided to do a mail vote now for November, I think there would be lot of problems to get the systems in place that fast. Most likely a special legislative session would be needed to enact the statutory process.

Absentee ballots are individual situations and each one requires individual handling. Even though Colorado is an all mail state, it has a separate system for absentee voting because the ballot won't be mailed to the registered address of the voter.
The states that could decide the election (like MI, WI) already have the statutory process in place. Michigan passed a ballot initiative previously, and by law, Wisconsin provides for No excuse requesting of absentee ballots.

I don't understand the absentee/vote by mail distinction you're making for CO. The SOS's website says...
"Q1. How do I receive my mail ballot?

A1. Every voter receives a mail ballot. The ballot will be sent to the mailing address you provided for your voter registration file. To check the address on file, or to make any changes to your voter registration visit www.GoVoteColorado.gov.

If you prefer to vote at the polls, you can vote in-person at a voter service and polling center. Please visit www.GoVoteColorado.gov to find your polling locations."

Everyone has the OPTION to vote by mail. If ANYONE has that option then EVERYONE should have that option...
 

glmiu11

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Expanded voting by mail is being touted as the way to make voting safer during the pandemic. I agree. That said, expanded live voting over a five day period would be a fivefold improvement over the status quo. So it's less than what you or I might want, but it's not stupid. Don't make me stick up for VPM any more, please. I'm getting queasy as it is.
We shouldn’t settle. Mail in voting should be a lock. He’s trying to argue against that, IMO. cause he wants Trump.
If he tells me I’m wrong he deserves my apology.
 
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TheOriginalHappyGoat

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The states that could decide the election (like MI, WI) already have the statutory process in place. Michigan passed a ballot initiative previously, and by law, Wisconsin provides for No excuse requesting of absentee ballots.

I don't understand the absentee/vote by mail distinction you're making for CO. The SOS's website says...
"Q1. How do I receive my mail ballot?

A1. Every voter receives a mail ballot. The ballot will be sent to the mailing address you provided for your voter registration file. To check the address on file, or to make any changes to your voter registration visit www.GoVoteColorado.gov.

If you prefer to vote at the polls, you can vote in-person at a voter service and polling center. Please visit www.GoVoteColorado.gov to find your polling locations."

Everyone has the OPTION to vote by mail. If ANYONE has that option then EVERYONE should have that option...
CO.H knows a lot more about Colorado elections than the state of Colorado does. He's been very clear about this point in the past.