And here we go... Mueller time
- Thread starter zeke4ahs
- Start date
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thinkp...led-and-mueller-to-be-fired-741d56e76681/amp/
Goat, here's a clip from the crazy judge I was talking about last night.
Goat, here's a clip from the crazy judge I was talking about last night.
LOL.
"Judge Jeanine" "Opening Statement"
It's like Championship Wrestling at the old Tindall Armory.
At what point does Fox News become de facto state media?
Grammatical error, does should be did.
Heh, heh, heh . . . Just happened to be reading the first two chapters of Niebuhr's Nature and Destiny of Man (A Christian Interpretation) today, in preparation for our theology discussion group meeting this Tuesday. It's interesting that Comey (if that's really who tweeted that) included a picture of MLK with that quote, because MLK wrote at least one essay on Niebuhr's work: http://okra.stanford.edu/transcription/document_images/Vol02Scans/269_Apr1953-June1954_The Theology of Reinhold Niebuhr.pdf. Niebuhr's writings helped shape MLK's own theology and philosophical outlook early in MLK's career . . . .
Anyway, among things that Niebuhr* talks about in these first two chapters are the various forms of modern (as opposed to classical) philosophy that center around two basic views of the nature of man. One is that man's essence is in his ability to engage in rational thought. The other is that man's nature is one of vitality, as in energy, or will. Here's a bit of what he says about this view of man:
"The romantic and materialistic protest against the pretensions of rational man . . . is borne by the two classes in modern society: the lower middle classes and the industrial workers, who are forced by historical necessity to challenge the economic and political supremacy of the higher middle classes. The lower middle classes express themselves in various forms of romanticism culminating in fascist politics; while the industrial workers gravitate naturally toward the philosophy of materialism and communist politics*. These protests gain in plausibility as the power and prestige of the bourgeois civilization decays; for the truth embodied in a culture maintains itself, and hides the error in which all historical truth is involved, more by the prestige and stability of the civilization in which it is incarnated than by the inherent plausibility of its ideas . . .
". . . these philosophies [fascism and communism] are becoming instruments of a deepening decadence on the one hand and of abortive regeneration on the other. They do not see the problem of human nature in sufficient depth and therefore remain in the confusion, and sometimes accentuate the errors, in which modern culture has been involved in the beginning. Romanticism asserts both the vitality of nature and its primitive and organic unities against the universalities of rationalism. It therefore either defines every principle of form and order (as in Nietzcheanism) or it emphasizes primitive and inadequate forms of unity (Blut und Boden [Blood and Soil]). It thus becomes an instrument of decadence, hastening the destruction of bourgeios civilization without offering a way to a new order." [All underlining and bolding of text is mine, to provide emphasis.]
Ah, who knew . . . those fascists are nothing but a bunch of romantics . . . .
I suspect that Comey's quotation of Niebuhr will prove to be in support of a third, and uniquely Christian, view of the nature of man . . . stay tuned for the next couple of session readings . . . .
* Niebuhr, by the way, was an American, born and raised in Missouri as a contemporary of Harry Truman. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhold_Niebuhr His brother, H. Richard Niebuhr, was also a prominent theologian.
** Keep in mind that Niebuhr wrote these words in the 1930s, in anticipation of giving a series of Gifford lectures at various universities in Scotland. The political discourse was different then, but I think Niebuhr's comments about fascism are worthy of note in the current US political climate.
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Ha. Can someone tell him the NOT thing has been out for about a decade? And also the Russia talk has been ongoing for over a year. Thanks.
Dude.
How in the hell do you know that Mueller’s team has “leaked like a sieve”?
There has been zero evidence of this. Outside of the right wing media, of course.
I’d LOVE to see your source on this statement.
Multiple people would’ve had access to this info. Most are not on Mueller’s team.
Mueller doesn’t strike me as the type that would put up with leaks- he seems to be multiple steps ahead of everybody, and by the time the media finds out about something, he’s much farther ahead.
CO- you’re a smart guy. Take off the blinders man. You’re better that the folks here that just parrot pub talking points. I expect more out of you.
I do agree with you that this is likely unrelated to collusion. I think this is simply squeezing someone, to get more info or cooperation. And, like others have said, it’s likely Manafort. He hasn’t played ball yet, and I’d bet Mueller’s team is about to show him his options.
And, FWIW, I’d guess that Flynn is cooperating right now. He offered up his story for immunity early on, and we haven’t heard anything about him since. That screams cooperation.
Who's the first one on deck?
I say Flynn but my sister, brother in law and nephew (in our family poll), the Westies in my family say Manafort.
And, Trump has already demonstrated that he knows how to pardon his allies. See this, too:
https://news.northeastern.edu/2017/07/the-powers-and-limits-of-presidential-pardons/
MSNBC reporting it's Manafort and his business associate, Rick Gates. Probably going to be money laundering or tax evasion.
Those two probably have violated NY State law too, so pardons won't save them.
There was some speculation that Mueller might start off by going after lower-level people than Manafort, so it is a bit of a surprise that he and Gates are the first ones getting charged. Although it seemed clear there was probably the most dirt on Manafort and that investigation was the farthest along.
Now we see if either of those two flip (Gates probably knows where the bodies are buried too), and if that's it for the day or not.
And the Whataboutism of the day seems to be "B-B-But Manafort worked with the Podesta Group too!"
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FNC right now: "Liberals hate soldiers."
Can't make this stuff up.
Can't make this stuff up.
This isn't hard to figure out. The information about the special counsel's office has been pretty much non-stop since Mueller took the job. If you think there will be somebody in that office stand up and say "I am providing information to the press" think again. My conclusion that it MUST be the SC's is solely based on the nature information--there is no other source that is privy to all of it.
Goat and Marv put out arguments about the defense counsel, or marshal's service leaking stuff. That's tin-foil hat territory. When one considers ALL the information, the SC office is the only logical an reasonable source.
If an attorney is providing the leaks, I think that attorney needs to have his or her chops busted big time. As I said, this crap jeopardizes the prosecution's case, it is unprofessional, and frankly it is shabby bs. If the person is identified as an attorney, Mueller needs to report the matter to the federal court committee on conduct and to what ever state issued the license.
He was reportedly working with NY AG Schneiderman on the probe as of a couple months ago.
To me, the obvious route (assuming Trump obstruction/pardoning people) has always been to look into possible Trump Organization money laundering/tax fraud, since they're also based in NY State. Then when you reveal your hand, Trump pardoning people on federal charges is him basically admitting guilt and everyone still gets hit with state charges.
MSNBC is reporting that the reason Mueller filed the charges on Friday is due to a statute of limitations issue on tax evasion. It doesn't mean that they may not be planning on filing additional charges against Gates or Manafort at a later date. I think the time issue on the tax charges simply forced Mueller's hand.
Slow your roll. What I've said is that I don't buy your argument that leaks have been "non-stop." Please, provide a list of all these leaks, if you'd be so kind.
As for "tin-foil hat territory," I'd say the one wearing the tin-foil is the person who refuses to look at all possibilities and assumes the people Doing Bad Things must be the people that said person hopes is Doing Bad Things. I provided a list of people who would be privy to the information that was leaked Friday. That's it.
Indictments have been released. Underlying crime seems to be laundering money from the government of Ukraine to avoid paying taxes.
Too easy a target Manafort. But I guess he is the lowest hanging fruit.
Question is how much business has Manafort done with Trump in the past in selling Trump-associated properties
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Ha ha. All possibilities leads you into tin foil hat territory.
Me? I look at the most logical and reasonable explanation. Arguing possibilities is no argument. Come up with a conclusion that is more reasonable than mine.
https://www.justice.gov/file/1007271/download
There's the indictment, accused of laundering $18 million!
There's the indictment, accused of laundering $18 million!
I'll be happy to draw a conclusion, if you can provide me with all these examples of non-stop leaks you claim have happened.
Must be working, since the proposed reforms definitely don't help the middle class.
You are reverting to stupid goatisms. Just give it up. The point is that ALL the stories about the SC have been leaked stories. As far as I know Mueller has issued no press releases about his work and has not had a press conference or a press availability. Taken together, Mueller's shop is the only logical source of the leaks.
Given Mueller's office's legal an professional ethical obligation to keep their traps shut, his office is like a sieve.
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