A problem with ICE holds

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I do appreciate Indy residents noting that Maggiano's is a chain. There isn't anything particularly wrong with it, but there isn't anything particularly right about it either. Maggiano's is what I thought of when I read this assessment that some other NFL team will promptly hire fired Packers coach Mike McCarthy:

NFL decision-makers are the types of men who sit down in trendy Italian bistros with Michelin-rated chefs and order veal parmesan over linguine. They love big steaming heaps of comforting familiarity, and words like "proven" and "experience" make their eyes roll back into their heads with satisfaction. Naturally, they'll gravitate toward a known commodity like McCarthy.
​

I don't mean to describe Maggiano's as a "trendy Italian bistro". I mean to describe Maggiano's as the place where people like those NFL execs want to go when they think of a "trendy Italian bistro".

But what do I know? I'm the sort of guy who goes to Mama Carolla's for the carbonara pasta with some of the best martinis while listening to the same Sinatra CDs that've been playing for the last few decades in a place that's as Italian as Greenwood. But it's local.

When I lived in Toledo, we called "Maggiano's" "Biaggi's."

 

[twenty02]

I do appreciate Indy residents noting that Maggiano's is a chain. There isn't anything particularly wrong with it, but there isn't anything particularly right about it either. Maggiano's is what I thought of when I read this assessment that some other NFL team will promptly hire fired Packers coach Mike McCarthy:

NFL decision-makers are the types of men who sit down in trendy Italian bistros with Michelin-rated chefs and order veal parmesan over linguine. They love big steaming heaps of comforting familiarity, and words like "proven" and "experience" make their eyes roll back into their heads with satisfaction. Naturally, they'll gravitate toward a known commodity like McCarthy.
​

I don't mean to describe Maggiano's as a "trendy Italian bistro". I mean to describe Maggiano's as the place where people like those NFL execs want to go when they think of a "trendy Italian bistro".

But what do I know? I'm the sort of guy who goes to Mama Carolla's for the carbonara pasta with some of the best martinis while listening to the same Sinatra CDs that've been playing for the last few decades in a place that's as Italian as Greenwood. But it's local.

Mama's is great, wish they had a larger bar, but love dining in the garden in the summer.

We are going to Sangiovese for New Year's Eve. Loved their old place.... haven't been since they reopened next to Ruth's Chris. Kind of not expecting as good of an atmosphere.


Chains are fine....I like Maggianos for what it is, ...also like their chain neighbors Seasons 52 and Sullivan's (though less on this one last few years). Would much prefer Meridian to either though.

 

[toastedbread]

3. Although we each have our own tastes, there are some things that are generally universally appreciated and reviled. For example, most people like wines that are complex and relatively mellow. If a wine is "too much" of one thing and not enough of other things, most people will dislike it. There are exceptions, of course, usually when a particular style has a reputation that people are looking for - like the buttery chardonnay or the grapefruity sauvignon blanc. But usually, people will enjoy wines that aren't one-note. So, even accounting for individual tastes, there are general patterns that emerge.

Not really a wine guy, but have you ever had pomegranate wine? Absolutely delicious.

$25 restaurant price? Last few times I've been out there hasn't been ANYTHING that cheap on the menu....typically seems to start at $30 range even at a chain place like Maggianos. And it's wine that's maybe $8-10 in a store.

True. And maggiano's sucks! You are paying solely for cheap decorations made to look fancy. I hate those types of pretentious places.

We used to price all of our wines at 2x wholesale plus 5 bucks. So that would add up to about 1.5-2x retail, depending on price level.

I looked at the Maggiano's wine list. Some of it seems reasonable. $38 for Estancia Pinot is normal. We charged $36. But $34 for 14 Hands? That's a ripoff. We charged $21 for that shit (and it is shit).

You must have run the most affordable upscale restaurant on earth. Kudos to you. I've been told that 3-4x retail is not unusual. Perhaps even worse than that in some places. (In line with what twenty was stating)

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

You must have run the most affordable upscale restaurant on earth. Kudos to you. I've been told that 3-4x retail is not unusual. Perhaps even worse than that in some places. (In line with what twenty was stating)

Possible. I won an "award" one year from Ohio Magazine for my wine list, and affordability was certainly part of the criteria, but I don't think I was that far below market. I think more likely the market has shifted. But then again, I had to sample a lot of wines to put together that wine list, so I might not remember all of it that clearly.

Plus, we weren't "upscale." We were "upscale casual." It might sound pedantic, but there are big differences, especially in price.

 

[twenty02]

True. And maggiano's sucks! You are paying solely for cheap decorations made to look fancy. I hate those types of pretentious places.

Yeah but they have a crazy packed house all the time, so they are doing something right....and been that way for a decade+.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Here is another story of wine judges being fooled by the same bottle of wine. And here is a story picking on vodka snobs.

Often times we like what certain things say about us, such as being seen ordering grey goose. It goes back to a study where people were given a free poster, some could choose others were simply given a poster. Upon followup, the people just given a poster were more likely to have it hanging on their wall. The posters chosen by the participants, and largely not displayed, were motivational posters. The researchers believe people liked being seen as the type to want a motivational poster, even if they were not the type to actually display it.

That is not to say there are no bad wines, or people cannot tell the difference. Just the value of the difference is overrated.

Here is one to Google, olive oil. The olive oil Americans love is the same oil considered rancid in Europe. We Americans just cannot tell the difference.

 

[toastedbread]

Yeah but they have a crazy packed house all the time, so they are doing something right....and been that way for a decade+.

Well people are stupid. What can I tell you

 

[toastedbread]

Possible. I won an "award" one year from Ohio Magazine for my wine list, and affordability was certainly part of the criteria, but I don't think I was that far below market. I think more likely the market has shifted.

I think it's probably both. Although, I know that wine has become "in" recently. I dont think there's any question that prices have been jacked as a result.

Here is another story of wine judges being fooled by the same bottle of wine. And here is a story picking on vodka snobs.

Often times we like what certain things say about us, such as being seen ordering grey goose. It goes back to a study where people were given a free poster, some could choose others were simply given a poster. Upon followup, the people just given a poster were more likely to have it hanging on their wall. The posters chosen by the participants, and largely not displayed, were motivational posters. The researchers believe people liked being seen as the type to want a motivational poster, even if they were not the type to actually display it.

That is not to say there are no bad wines, or people cannot tell the difference. Just the value of the difference is overrated.

Here is one to Google, olive oil. The olive oil Americans love is the same oil considered rancid in Europe. We Americans just cannot tell the difference.

It kind of reminds me to the books on heuristics. The names pass my mind at the moment. But people will basically pay more for an inferior product with proper marketing.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Here is another story of wine judges being fooled by the same bottle of wine. And here is a story picking on vodka snobs.

Often times we like what certain things say about us, such as being seen ordering grey goose. It goes back to a study where people were given a free poster, some could choose others were simply given a poster. Upon followup, the people just given a poster were more likely to have it hanging on their wall. The posters chosen by the participants, and largely not displayed, were motivational posters. The researchers believe people liked being seen as the type to want a motivational poster, even if they were not the type to actually display it.

That is not to say there are no bad wines, or people cannot tell the difference. Just the value of the difference is overrated.

Here is one to Google, olive oil. The olive oil Americans love is the same oil considered rancid in Europe. We Americans just cannot tell the difference.

I haven't clicked on your links yet, but I recall that most high-end vodkas consistently lose to Smirnoff in blind taste tests. There is absolutely no doubt that knowing something is "supposed" to be good makes it taste better. That's why restaurants focus so much on presentation. There's an old saying in the industry that only 10% of the sense of taste is in your mouth and nose. The other 90% is in your eyes.

That may or may not be an exaggeration, but it certainly highlights a very real truth. Our mind is very easily tricked into enjoying the taste of something for reasons that have nothing to do with how it actually, objectively tastes.

"That is not to say there are no bad wines, or people cannot tell the difference. Just the value of the difference is overrated."

I think that is the key point, and why I said above that there is a (relatively low) limit on how expensive I will go when buying wine (or virtually anything). Yes, I can tell a difference between Cakebread and La Crema. Do I think that difference is worth laying down an extra $15-20? Not in your life.

 

[zeke4ahs]

I haven't ordered wine in a restaurant in a few years. I might be behind the times price-wise. To me, $25 restaurant price is about $12-13 in a store.

I haven't seen that around here.... Typically seems to be 3-4x the retail price. Hard to get a glass of Cab somewhere for less than $8-9 at a mid-market restaurant. Kind of pisses me off as I prefer ordering a bottle at dinner, but when it's $40+ I end up just getting a cocktail than a glass with the actual food.

Yep even a Beringer White Zin ( $5 in store) is $25 in a restaurant. Wednesday is half price bottles in many restaurants and that’s usually the only time I actually get a bottle.

 

[zeke4ahs]

I do appreciate Indy residents noting that Maggiano's is a chain. There isn't anything particularly wrong with it, but there isn't anything particularly right about it either. Maggiano's is what I thought of when I read this assessment that some other NFL team will promptly hire fired Packers coach Mike McCarthy:

NFL decision-makers are the types of men who sit down in trendy Italian bistros with Michelin-rated chefs and order veal parmesan over linguine. They love big steaming heaps of comforting familiarity, and words like "proven" and "experience" make their eyes roll back into their heads with satisfaction. Naturally, they'll gravitate toward a known commodity like McCarthy.
​

I don't mean to describe Maggiano's as a "trendy Italian bistro". I mean to describe Maggiano's as the place where people like those NFL execs want to go when they think of a "trendy Italian bistro".

But what do I know? I'm the sort of guy who goes to Mama Carolla's for the carbonara pasta with some of the best martinis while listening to the same Sinatra CDs that've been playing for the last few decades in a place that's as Italian as Greenwood. But it's local.

Mama's is great, wish they had a larger bar, but love dining in the garden in the summer.

We are going to Sangiovese for New Year's Eve. Loved their old place.... haven't been since they reopened next to Ruth's Chris. Kind of not expecting as good of an atmosphere.


Chains are fine....I like Maggianos for what it is, ...also like their chain neighbors Seasons 52 and Sullivan's (though less on this one last few years). Would much prefer Meridian to either though.

I like the new Sangiovese , but atmosphere is very different. Speaking of Italian, just had a good meal at Amalfi’s last week. I also love the patio in the summer at Mama’s. Have you eaten at the other new place up by Sangiovese called Provisions? Very big place for business guys in suits when I was there. Going to Seasons 52 for holiday dinner next week. Good for a chain. Rarely any reason to eat at a chain in Btown.