A monumental catastrophic leadership failure!

SoccerSammy

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Sep 7, 2012
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ooooooh

2008

BO was not qualified but he was not an idiot or a crook and like W; he grew into the job reasonably well.
Obama wasn’t always my favorite. But he was a respectable statesman and I’m afraid as the divide continues until we get a viable 3rd party or strong truly independent candidate we’ll be left with the current swill at the bottom of the trough.
 

SoccerSammy

Junior
Sep 7, 2012
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ooooooh

2008

BO was not qualified but he was not an idiot or a crook and like W; he grew into the job reasonably well.
I’ve had several arguments with the ultralibs here about having conservative values but disliking Trump. I don’t understand why that’s mutually exclusive. I’m embarrassed that the part I’ve been a member of since 1988 has kowtowed to him. My favorite power structure is gridlock. I love a divided Congress or President/congress dissonance. That way nothing can get done.
 

Courtsensetwo

Hall of Famer
Oct 16, 2004
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I’ve had several arguments with the ultralibs here about having conservative values but disliking Trump. I don’t understand why that’s mutually exclusive. I’m embarrassed that the part I’ve been a member of since 1988 has kowtowed to him. My favorite power structure is gridlock. I love a divided Congress or President/congress dissonance. That way nothing can get done.
Conservatives don't consider Trump conservative.
 

Bulk VanderHuge

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Dec 20, 2017
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The Southern Sun
I’ve had several arguments with the ultralibs here about having conservative values but disliking Trump. I don’t understand why that’s mutually exclusive. I’m embarrassed that the part I’ve been a member of since 1988 has kowtowed to him.
All just words, until you pull that curtain and cast that vote.

And I think you would find that the biggest problem most "ultralibs" have with the GOP is their cowardly response to what T.rump is doing to their party/this country. I know I have never voted straight ticket, and have, in my life, voted for candidates from both parties up and down the ballot. Do you think that's true of some of the "ultracons" on this board?
 
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UncleMark

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Sep 1, 2001
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I know I have never voted straight ticket, and have, in my life, voted for candidates from both parties up and down the ballot. Do you think that's true of some of the "ultracons" on this board?
I have no doubt COH has voted for a Dem... for school board or county commissioner.
 

mcmurtry66

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Mar 14, 2019
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I have no doubt COH has voted for a Dem... for school board or county commissioner.
Nah if he tried as many cases as he intimates on the plaintiff's side he had to vote Dem. tort reform defined voting for the plaintiff’s bar for a few decades
 

SoccerSammy

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Sep 7, 2012
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All just words, until you pull that curtain and cast that vote.

And I think you would find that the biggest problem most "ultralibs" have with the GOP is their cowardly response to what T.rump is doing to their party/this country. I know I have never voted straight ticket, and have, in my life, voted for candidates from both parties up and down the ballot. Do you think that's true of some of the "ultracons" on this board?
Most def
 

Stuffshot

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Feb 20, 2008
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Anxiously awaiting the day we once again have a legitimate qualified leader to select rather than the lesser of two bumbling evils.
Plus, I'm waiting for the day when lower level candidates return to running on their own records and their own ideas. Seems all I hear from them now is "I support Trump's agenda" on one side and "we must replace Trump" on the other.

I still think most of the blame for divisiveness falls on Trump (it's a strategy he, or a ghostwriter, writes about in his book) but lower level candidates are fanning the flames, too.
 

SoccerSammy

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Sep 7, 2012
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Plus, I'm waiting for the day when lower level candidates return to running on their own records and their own ideas. Seems all I hear from them now is "I support Trump's agenda" on one side and "we must replace Trump" on the other.

I still think most of the blame for divisiveness falls on Trump (it's a strategy he, or a ghostwriter, writes about in his book) but lower level candidates are fanning the flames, too.
This has been happening for decades. Don't blame this on Trump. BOTH sides of the aisle do this...
 

Stuffshot

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Feb 20, 2008
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All just words, until you pull that curtain and cast that vote.

And I think you would find that the biggest problem most "ultralibs" have with the GOP is their cowardly response to what T.rump is doing to their party/this country. I know I have never voted straight ticket, and have, in my life, voted for candidates from both parties up and down the ballot. Do you think that's true of some of the "ultracons" on this board?
With all the Republicans blindly supporting a non-Republican (Trump) despite his repeated violations of traditional Republican values, shouldn't you be careful voting for any Republican this year?

This year, based on their public statements and votes, it sure looks like voting for any Republican not named Romney for Congress is the same as voting for Trump one way or another.

As an example, Braun, Messer and Rokita ran on the same platform in 2016, i.e. "Trump likes me more than the other two."
 

Stuffshot

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Feb 20, 2008
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This has been happening for decades. Don't blame this on Trump. BOTH sides of the aisle do this...
No, I blame Trump. The Tea Party and Newt Gingrich set the stage for non cooperation several years ago, and today's Republicans are too stupid to realize that Trump's disruption is not really pursuing the goals they think he is pursuing. Trump is hurting the GOP middle class as much as everybody else.

Where's that middle-class tax cut Trump promised the GOP?

Where is the improved healthcare system he promised the GOP?

Where is the funding for infrastructure Trump promised the GOP middle class?
 
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UncleMark

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Sep 1, 2001
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Where's that middle-class tax cut Trump promised the GOP?

Where is the improved healthcare system he promised the GOP?

Where is the funding for infrastructure Trump promised the GOP middle class?
None of that matters if you pwn the libs.
 

Lucy01

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Sep 16, 2014
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No, I blame Trump. The Tea Party and Newt Gingrich set the stage for non cooperation several years ago, and today's Republicans are too stupid to realize that Trump's disruption is not really pursuing the goals they think he is pursuing. Trump is hurting the GOP middle class as much as everybody else.

Where's that middle-class tax cut Trump promised the GOP?

Where is the improved healthcare system he promised the GOP?

Where is the funding for infrastructure Trump promised the GOP middle class?
Crazy Nancy blocked anything going thru the house, but you know this!
 

i'vegotwinners

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Dec 1, 2006
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I'm surprised you don't include 2012.

Regardless, it sounds to me like 2016 was the outlier and that having two awful choices isn't the norm.
no, it is the not so new norm, as it has been the case since at least 92.

and what's an awful choice for the 99% or the future of the country, isn't necessarily so for the 1%.

what's the actual outlier here, is one of the candidates, (Trump), of either branch of the Wall St party not being installed by Wall St.

that said, Wall St still has the power to force Trump to do their bidding for them through the senate controlling his fate, and Mitch probably knowing more dirt regarding Trump than even the Ruskies. (ya think Mitch doesn't know what's in Trump's taxes, or his foreign and Duetsche Bank dealings).

if you look at all Trump's cabinet choices, those all look a lot more like Mitch's, (meaning Wall St's), choices, than what i think Trump would pick were he able to be his own man.
 

sglowrider

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Apr 9, 2012
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Tiny Red Dot
Holly Trump! That is quite an accomplishments! No other president has done that much in such short time frame, not even close!

Just for curiosity, has he done anything to help America and Americans, not counting the Trump family?
Just an honest question.
FOT/FWBs too.
 

Courtsensetwo

Hall of Famer
Oct 16, 2004
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Holly Trump! That is quite an accomplishments! No other president has done that much in such short time frame, not even close!

Just for curiosity, has he done anything to help America and Americans, not counting the Trump family?
Just an honest question.
Waiting on that link
 
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Lucy01

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What has the Democrat leadership done for the American people the last four years?
 

IUINSB

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Nov 26, 2012
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no, it is the not so new norm, as it has been the case since at least 92.

and what's an awful choice for the 99% or the future of the country, isn't necessarily so for the 1%.

what's the actual outlier here, is one of the candidates, (Trump), of either branch of the Wall St party not being installed by Wall St.

that said, Wall St still has the power to force Trump to do their bidding for them through the senate controlling his fate, and Mitch probably knowing more dirt regarding Trump than even the Ruskies. (ya think Mitch doesn't know what's in Trump's taxes, or his foreign and Duetsche Bank dealings).

if you look at all Trump's cabinet choices, those all look a lot more like Mitch's, (meaning Wall St's), choices, than what i think Trump would pick were he able to be his own man.

Goddamnit!! Just who the f@ck is controlling this country, Wall st. or Deep State??
 

TommyCracker

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Mar 18, 2004
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All just words, until you pull that curtain and cast that vote.

And I think you would find that the biggest problem most "ultralibs" have with the GOP is their cowardly response to what T.rump is doing to their party/this country. I know I have never voted straight ticket, and have, in my life, voted for candidates from both parties up and down the ballot. Do you think that's true of some of the "ultracons" on this board?
I come across as a deep blue dem but I've never been a straight ticket dem at all.

My first political draw was to Perot who was like a progressive republican.

My typical political strategy is I vote democratic President and republican congress.

I want my legislative branch business friendly.

I want my president cool headed and admiringly intelligent, and that tends to be democrats from Kennedy to Clinton to Obama. I want a president that is compassionate or at least can fake great compassion and empathy.

I prefer my judicial to be progressive liberal. I don't see moral growth with conservative thinking. Sorry. I see restrictions that don't represent the youth and the constantly changing moral thinking of the country.

Anyway, Trump is his own thing. He's a wannabe authoritarian in my eyes. He's a major threat to our democratic system.

Watching what he has done to the republican party, how's he cast out the never Trumpers and has whoever has survived cowering to his strength in the party like a king makes me thankful that the house flipped.

This election has me turning into a deep blue Democrat that feels the pubs need to be punished at the polls so they can rid themselves on Trumpism and rebuild a better republican party.
 
May 11, 2010
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I come across as a deep blue dem but I've never been a straight ticket dem at all.

My first political draw was to Perot who was like a progressive republican.

My typical political strategy is I vote democratic President and republican congress.

I want my legislative branch business friendly.

I want my president cool headed and admiringly intelligent, and that tends to be democrats from Kennedy to Clinton to Obama. I want a president that is compassionate or at least can fake great compassion and empathy.

I prefer my judicial to be progressive liberal. I don't see moral growth with conservative thinking. Sorry. I see restrictions that don't represent the youth and the constantly changing moral thinking of the country.

Anyway, Trump is his own thing. He's a wannabe authoritarian in my eyes. He's a major threat to our democratic system.

Watching what he has done to the republican party, how's he cast out the never Trumpers and has whoever has survived cowering to his strength in the party like a king makes me thankful that the house flipped.

This election has me turning into a deep blue Democrat that feels the pubs need to be punished at the polls so they can rid themselves on Trumpism and rebuild a better republican party.
Politically you and I might be the same person. People talk about voting for the best of the options, I'm always looking for the person that I think will do the least amount of harm. Like you I've never voted straight ticket; Dem or Pub. After this little foray into madness I can't see voting republican in the near future, if ever. It may not be the best rule of thumb, but if you have the support of David Duke you're never getting my vote.
 
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