A look back at the post Knight era.

Rotonda Jim

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Sep 3, 2003
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If we are being honest, Bobby Knight had lost a bit of his magic touch from the middle 1990s onward. Sure his teams played hard and had decent records but Big Ten Championships and National Championships disappeared and were just not in the picture as possibilities.. When he left, I felt that the right decision was made and yes, Mike Davis got thrust into the spotlight probably before he was ready. Davis was inexperienced, hurt by his stuttering speech patterns, and criticized for not signing the best kids in Indiana but looking back now, his teams were pretty good. Give him some credit for getting us to the National Championship game in 2002 and for finishing in the top half of the Big Ten each and every year. What hurt him most was the perceived love of Steve Alford by IU fans and the fact that the Mr. Basketballs of Texas, Louisiana and Maryland were not viewed as being as good as similar Indiana players. I get all of that but I never really thought that he was a bad man, a bad coach or even a bad recruiter. So he was removed and IMHO, the regression has continued and may now has spiraled out of control. Sampson had his scandals, Dakich doesn't count, Crean underperformed with NBA players who did fine here but could never leap the bigger hurdles and now Miller has been an outright disaster. Compounding all of this is that the kids of today do not remember the golden years of IU basketball because those days are long gone. The five banners in Assembly Hall have rust on them from the point of view of today's kids and from the good players in the country. I am just asking the question if firing Mike Davis was a mistake? He graduated his kids. He took them to church. He basically avoided scandals and he got us to a national championship game and kept us in the upper echelon of the Big Ten. An injury to DJ White hurt the team a lot at the end. Would it have been just as bad if we had kept him? I would love to hear the feedback from you old timers ln the board. I am 73 and one of you. Go Hoosiers.
 

Birnk403

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Nov 17, 2019
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If we are being honest, Bobby Knight had lost a bit of his magic touch from the middle 1990s onward. Sure his teams played hard and had decent records but Big Ten Championships and National Championships disappeared and were just not in the picture as possibilities.. When he left, I felt that the right decision was made and yes, Mike Davis got thrust into the spotlight probably before he was ready. Davis was inexperienced, hurt by his stuttering speech patterns, and criticized for not signing the best kids in Indiana but looking back now, his teams were pretty good. Give him some credit for getting us to the National Championship game in 2002 and for finishing in the top half of the Big Ten each and every year. What hurt him most was the perceived love of Steve Alford by IU fans and the fact that the Mr. Basketballs of Texas, Louisiana and Maryland were not viewed as being as good as similar Indiana players. I get all of that but I never really thought that he was a bad man, a bad coach or even a bad recruiter. So he was removed and IMHO, the regression has continued and may now has spiraled out of control. Sampson had his scandals, Dakich doesn't count, Crean underperformed with NBA players who did fine here but could never leap the bigger hurdles and now Miller has been an outright disaster. Compounding all of this is that the kids of today do not remember the golden years of IU basketball because those days are long gone. The five banners in Assembly Hall have rust on them from the point of view of today's kids and from the good players in the country. I am just asking the question if firing Mike Davis was a mistake? He graduated his kids. He took them to church. He basically avoided scandals and he got us to a national championship game and kept us in the upper echelon of the Big Ten. An injury to DJ White hurt the team a lot at the end. Would it have been just as bad if we had kept him? I would love to hear the feedback from you old timers ln the board. I am 73 and one of you. Go Hoosiers.
He was a really good man who never should’ve been given the permanent position. He wasn’t qualified, and I think that became uncomfortably apparent.

The mistakes of hiring both Sampson and Crean are well documented, and Miller obviously isn’t the answer, either (though his hire was easily the one everyone could understand). IU would be wise to move on from him at the conclusion of the season, because the rebuild needs to start immediately, but it’s obvious Miller isn’t the guy. Unfortunately, neither was Mike Davis.
 

go_iu

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Feb 22, 2004
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I wanted him fired, but in hindsight I think it was a mistake. He was MUCH better than Crean or AM, even just learning on the job. Our standards were higher then though
 
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Birnk403

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I wanted him fired, but in hindsight I think it was a mistake. He was MUCH better than Crean or AM, even just learning on the job. Our standards were higher then though
I will agree that our standards were much higher then.
 

ryoder1

Recruit
Feb 17, 2007
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Davis was not getting us where we wanted to be which is B10 titles and competing for NCs. He now looks decent compared to the three train wrecks that succeeded him but that still does not make the decision to can him wrong.

Our issue is we gave not hired a good HC since Knight, plain and simple. As a result there is this slow steady decline that leads us to the dumpster fire that is today.
 
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UncleMark

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Sep 1, 2001
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I wanted him fired, but in hindsight I think it was a mistake. He was MUCH better than Crean or AM, even just learning on the job. Our standards were higher then though
The F4 run got us all wound up and when Davis never followed up it went bad for him.

Samson showed that we could be a power again -- and I also assume it could have been done with "quality" kids and without the petty rule breaking. But when the program disintegrated, Crean was evidently the best we could get. And then, when they finally managed to get rid of Crean, Miller was the best we could get.

It's been a bad run since Davis. I'm not convinced there was malfeasence involved (unless it was Herbert pressuring for the Samson hire), and hindsight is always 20-20. All I can say is that the Miller era has to come to an end. This is IU, and this isn't good enough.
 
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go_iu

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Feb 22, 2004
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Davis was not getting us where we wanted to be which is B10 titles and competing for NCs. He now looks decent compared to the three train wrecks that succeeded him but that still does not make the decision to can him wrong.

Our issue is we gave not hired a good HC since Knight, plain and simple. As a result there is this slow steady decline that leads us to the dumpster fire that is today.
Well actually he had us about 4 minutes away from winning an NC to be fair. We dropped off after that, but he usually had us expecting to make the tourney and when he'd say help was on the way it was actually true
 
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ndhuntington

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Oct 6, 2009
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Its all about the right hire. We can agree besides Sampson none of these guys were great coaches. Its time to get proven coaches not a flash in the pan guy.
 
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go_iu

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Feb 22, 2004
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Davis' offense was no better than Archie's. Now I would say their defense is about the same with a slight edge given to Davis' squads.
Oh, completely disagree. Davis offense was a thing of beauty in 2002. That's a year removed from RMK. It looked like he'd be able to maintain that until DJ White got hurt, then the offense became Bracey Wright. It was improving his last year with Killingsworth, but it was too late for him. Still a better offense than AM and probably better than Crean with equal talent
 

VanPastorMan

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Mar 21, 2002
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Oh, completely disagree. Davis offense was a thing of beauty in 2002. That's a year removed from RMK. It looked like he'd be able to maintain that until DJ White got hurt, then the offense became Bracey Wright. It was improving his last year with Killingsworth, but it was too late for him. Still a better offense than AM and probably better than Crean with equal talent
The last two years was what did Davis in. I still contend the offensive side is what got him fired because their defense was always solid. You make a great point about the title run. Those teams were a lot of fun with the 3 pt shooting especially. I would love for Dr. Hornsby would donate some of his blood to our current team because maybe the shooting would flow through. lol
 

go_iu

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Feb 22, 2004
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The last two years was what did Davis in. I still contend the offensive side is what got him fired because their defense was always solid. You make a great point about the title run. Those teams were a lot of fun with the 3 pt shooting especially. I would love for Dr. Hornsby would donate some of his blood to our current team because maybe the shooting would flow through. lol
It was the injury to DJ White. I remember watching a game against Whisky before he got hurt and Whisky was really good that year, and remember telling my Dad ... they can't handle him. He was still a really good player when he came back, but never really the same as what he could have been.
 

Harry Hondo

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What’s the old saying? “You don’t want to be the guy that follows a legend, you want to be the guy who follows the guy who followed a legend.”

The big mistake was not firing Davis, it was not taking the time to hire the right guy at that time. Sampson had issues at OU, so he should’ve been disqualified. At that time the program was still looked at as a premier destination job and they f’ked it up.
 

82IU

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Apr 30, 2016
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"Well actually he had us about 4 minutes away from winning an NC to be fair."
4 minutes and Kirk Haston away from a title. If Haston would have come back, Davis would have gotten IU it's 6th title,imho.
 

go_iu

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Feb 22, 2004
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"Well actually he had us about 4 minutes away from winning an NC to be fair."
4 minutes and Kirk Haston away from a title. If Haston would have come back, Davis would have gotten IU it's 6th title,imho.
Yep, I just recall we were winning with 4 to go and blew it. We didn't even need Haston, what we needed was a completely healthy Coverdale and we would have won it.
 
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Columbus-Boiler

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Jun 6, 2001
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Davis was not getting us where we wanted to be which is B10 titles and competing for NCs. He now looks decent compared to the three train wrecks that succeeded him but that still does not make the decision to can him wrong.

Our issue is we gave not hired a good HC since Knight, plain and simple. As a result there is this slow steady decline that leads us to the dumpster fire that is today.

I think with Davis, because of the man he was, the floor would have been much higher than it has been since he was fired. I think he was always going to be a good recruiter and would have vastly improved recruiting in-state over time. Did he have the x's and o's strategic mind to consistently be involved in B1G championships and NCAA title runs? Probably not, idk, but I think it would be better now to be complaining about not being able to get over the hump and win a NC as opposed to hoping and praying for a bubble spot. I liked Davis, and frankly I think he was doomed to failure being the act that followed RMK.
 

Al Bino

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Dec 18, 2001
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If we are being honest, Bobby Knight had lost a bit of his magic touch from the middle 1990s onward. Sure his teams played hard and had decent records but Big Ten Championships and National Championships disappeared and were just not in the picture as possibilities.. When he left, I felt that the right decision was made and yes, Mike Davis got thrust into the spotlight probably before he was ready. Davis was inexperienced, hurt by his stuttering speech patterns, and criticized for not signing the best kids in Indiana but looking back now, his teams were pretty good. Give him some credit for getting us to the National Championship game in 2002 and for finishing in the top half of the Big Ten each and every year. What hurt him most was the perceived love of Steve Alford by IU fans and the fact that the Mr. Basketballs of Texas, Louisiana and Maryland were not viewed as being as good as similar Indiana players. I get all of that but I never really thought that he was a bad man, a bad coach or even a bad recruiter. So he was removed and IMHO, the regression has continued and may now has spiraled out of control. Sampson had his scandals, Dakich doesn't count, Crean underperformed with NBA players who did fine here but could never leap the bigger hurdles and now Miller has been an outright disaster. Compounding all of this is that the kids of today do not remember the golden years of IU basketball because those days are long gone. The five banners in Assembly Hall have rust on them from the point of view of today's kids and from the good players in the country. I am just asking the question if firing Mike Davis was a mistake? He graduated his kids. He took them to church. He basically avoided scandals and he got us to a national championship game and kept us in the upper echelon of the Big Ten. An injury to DJ White hurt the team a lot at the end. Would it have been just as bad if we had kept him? I would love to hear the feedback from you old timers ln the board. I am 73 and one of you. Go Hoosiers.

I think the mistake was HIRING Davis. They caved to the players and that almost never ends well. He in NO way had the qualifications to be the coach at IU and he basically admitted the same.
 

achoosier

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Dec 29, 2006
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If we are being honest, Bobby Knight had lost a bit of his magic touch from the middle 1990s onward. Sure his teams played hard and had decent records but Big Ten Championships and National Championships disappeared and were just not in the picture as possibilities.. When he left, I felt that the right decision was made and yes, Mike Davis got thrust into the spotlight probably before he was ready. Davis was inexperienced, hurt by his stuttering speech patterns, and criticized for not signing the best kids in Indiana but looking back now, his teams were pretty good. Give him some credit for getting us to the National Championship game in 2002 and for finishing in the top half of the Big Ten each and every year. What hurt him most was the perceived love of Steve Alford by IU fans and the fact that the Mr. Basketballs of Texas, Louisiana and Maryland were not viewed as being as good as similar Indiana players. I get all of that but I never really thought that he was a bad man, a bad coach or even a bad recruiter. So he was removed and IMHO, the regression has continued and may now has spiraled out of control. Sampson had his scandals, Dakich doesn't count, Crean underperformed with NBA players who did fine here but could never leap the bigger hurdles and now Miller has been an outright disaster. Compounding all of this is that the kids of today do not remember the golden years of IU basketball because those days are long gone. The five banners in Assembly Hall have rust on them from the point of view of today's kids and from the good players in the country. I am just asking the question if firing Mike Davis was a mistake? He graduated his kids. He took them to church. He basically avoided scandals and he got us to a national championship game and kept us in the upper echelon of the Big Ten. An injury to DJ White hurt the team a lot at the end. Would it have been just as bad if we had kept him? I would love to hear the feedback from you old timers ln the board. I am 73 and one of you. Go Hoosiers.
They all sound amazing right now. Sampson has Houston ranked #12! The stuff IU burned down the program over is perfectly “legal” now. With two B10 titles in four years (after zero scholly players), one could easily argue Crean got a raw deal. Davis took them to a NC and tourneys in 4/6 years (DJ’s injury really hurt them too)...

Although with this current coach, the basketball promised land has never seemed so distant. The shooting and guard play is consistently sub-par. The D is not what it was sold to be. It’s plain bad.

Davis was likely in a bit in over his head. IU should have done a proper search for RMK’s replacement after year one. That whole thing was one giant fumbled fiasco IMO. Too many egos, no cool heads with an eye on the program’s future.
 

Birnk403

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They all sound amazing right now. Sampson has Houston ranked #12! The stuff IU burned down the program over is perfectly “legal” now. With two B10 titles in four years (after zero scholly players), one could easily argue Crean got a raw deal. Davis took them to a NC and tourneys in 4/6 years (DJ’s injury really hurt them too)...

Although with this current coach, the basketball promised land has never seemed so distant. The shooting and guard play is consistently sub-par. The D is not what it was sold to be. It’s plain bad.

Davis was likely in a bit in over his head. IU should have done a proper search for RMK’s replacement after year one. That whole thing was one giant fumbled fiasco IMO. Too many egos, no cool heads with an eye on the program’s future.
CB threw a fit and threatened to throw a bigger, more public one if Davis wasn’t the permanent hire. The President and the other Trustees caved in no time flat.
 

ams66

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IU should have done a proper search for RMK’s replacement after year one. That whole thing was one giant fumbled fiasco IMO. Too many egos, no cool heads with an eye on the program’s future.

Don't forget that in the immediate RMK aftermath there was a strong feeling among many in the administration (and BoT?) that basketball should never again be bigger than the university. That may actually still be the case, it would fit in to what we've seen for the past 20 years. McRobbie might feel that way, though it seems to me that he's just indifferent. As long as there's no scandals, I don't think he cares.
 

Carib04

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Maybe it's not popular to say but Mike Davis reaped the rewards of Knight coached players out from under the Knight "fear styled" coaching. Players knew what to do, where to be on the court and knew where each other would be on the court. None of that is apparent in the teams over the last several years at IU. Mike Davis was a disaster once his players dominated the roster. Going into a fight with Mike Davis and coming out with a few missing teeth and a broken finger does sound better than going into a fight with Archie Miller and wondering if you can make to the hospital in time to get treatment for your knife wound before you bleed out.
 
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Rotonda

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I don't think Davis's record was close to disastrous. An appearance in the championship game, four tournament appearances and an upper tier conference finish every year isn't chopped liver. His six year record was on par with Bobby's last six years. Look it up.
 
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go_iu

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Maybe it's not popular to say but Mike Davis reaped the rewards of Knight coached players out from under the Knight "fear styled" coaching. Players knew what to do, where to be on the court and knew where each other would be on the court. None of that is apparent in the teams over the last several years at IU. Mike Davis was a disaster once his players dominated the roster. Going into a fight with Mike Davis and coming out with a few missing teeth and a broken finger does sound better than going into a fight with Archie Miller and wondering if you can make to the hospital in time to get treatment for your knife wound before you bleed out.
That's not true, I think only Fife got any significant minutes under RMK. Some other guys were there, but not getting any significant PT. Maybe they learned some from RMK in practice, but it was under Davis that they all became better
 
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I don't think Davis's record was close to disastrous. An appearance in the championship game, four tournament appearances and an upper tier conference finish every year isn't chopped liver. His six year record was on par with Bobby's last six years. Look it up.

You must’ve napped through the Bracey Wright era pops...
 
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Dec 9, 2014
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If we are being honest, Bobby Knight had lost a bit of his magic touch from the middle 1990s onward. Sure his teams played hard and had decent records but Big Ten Championships and National Championships disappeared and were just not in the picture as possibilities.. When he left, I felt that the right decision was made and yes, Mike Davis got thrust into the spotlight probably before he was ready. Davis was inexperienced, hurt by his stuttering speech patterns, and criticized for not signing the best kids in Indiana but looking back now, his teams were pretty good. Give him some credit for getting us to the National Championship game in 2002 and for finishing in the top half of the Big Ten each and every year. What hurt him most was the perceived love of Steve Alford by IU fans and the fact that the Mr. Basketballs of Texas, Louisiana and Maryland were not viewed as being as good as similar Indiana players. I get all of that but I never really thought that he was a bad man, a bad coach or even a bad recruiter. So he was removed and IMHO, the regression has continued and may now has spiraled out of control. Sampson had his scandals, Dakich doesn't count, Crean underperformed with NBA players who did fine here but could never leap the bigger hurdles and now Miller has been an outright disaster. Compounding all of this is that the kids of today do not remember the golden years of IU basketball because those days are long gone. The five banners in Assembly Hall have rust on them from the point of view of today's kids and from the good players in the country. I am just asking the question if firing Mike Davis was a mistake? He graduated his kids. He took them to church. He basically avoided scandals and he got us to a national championship game and kept us in the upper echelon of the Big Ten. An injury to DJ White hurt the team a lot at the end. Would it have been just as bad if we had kept him? I would love to hear the feedback from you old timers ln the board. I am 73 and one of you. Go Hoosiers.

I see you’re still beating the drum for Davis and making excuses. Is it also still your hypothesis that he was fired because of racism as opposed to incompetence? I bet so...
 

go_iu

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Feb 22, 2004
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I see you’re still beating the drum for Davis and making excuses. Is it also still your hypothesis that he was fired because of racism as opposed to incompetence? I bet so...
Yes, he was growing into the job, but producing better results for less than 1M, mind after he took us within minutes of a title. Crean and little shit head make like 3.5M and never sniffed his average success, plus he had zero scandals and could recruit. In hindsight, I think we messed up and should have given him a couple more years. Good person too, he knew fans were disappointed and resigned mid season as to not be a distraction to the rest of the year
 

go_iu

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Feb 22, 2004
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I see you’re still beating the drum for Davis and making excuses. Is it also still your hypothesis that he was fired because of racism as opposed to incompetence? I bet so...
Again, in hindsight, anyone making 450K a year that could orchestrate a 17 point down halftime comeback against the #1 team in the country (expected to easily win the title, but get us there instead) should probably have been given more time. He's not an old-timer and I doubt lost much of his personality recruiting. He's had interviews where he said he's 100X better a coach than back then. I would take him back in a heartbeat at this point
 
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HoosierJimbo89

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Bob Knight was never going to coach forever. The fact is IU has made 4 bad hires since RMK: simple as that. Ironically, Sampson was the only good coach out of the bunch, but his NCAA issues, which became non-issues a couple years later, made him a bad hire. Mike Davis, Crean, and Archie all auditioned and failed, and Sampson committed job suicide.

I understand the scenario put forth, and I'm not trying to offend you with the following. However, if we are trying to decide whether hanging onto Mike Davis would have been better than the Sampson debacle, Crean, and Archie, then that is just pathetic. If the best the IU program can do is Mike Davis, then time to shut down the shop and do something else. IU has been and should be a lot better than what has transpired over the past 21 years.
 
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Al Bino

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Again, in hindsight, anyone making 450K a year that could orchestrate a 17 point down halftime comeback against the #1 team in the country (expected to easily win the title, but get us there instead) should probably have been given more time. He's not an old-timer and I doubt lost much of his personality recruiting. He's had interviews where he said he's 100X better a coach than back then. I would take him back in a heartbeat at this point

And how many times has he been fired?
 

Al Bino

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Don't forget that in the immediate RMK aftermath there was a strong feeling among many in the administration (and BoT?) that basketball should never again be bigger than the university. That may actually still be the case, it would fit in to what we've seen for the past 20 years. McRobbie might feel that way, though it seems to me that he's just indifferent. As long as there's no scandals, I don't think he cares.

Really?

What are we on, our third or fourth AD, something like our fourth Pres? I doubt there is any BOT from that time still left. Is there ANYONE still around from that time that would have any influence?

What did they do as they left office, leave a note to not allow the BB program to be big again and here is how to do it?
 

Tasmanian Devil

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