A Biden presidency could spell another depression

Discussion in 'The Water Cooler' started by td75, Jun 22, 2020.

  1. td75

    td75 Hall of Famer
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    I'll take an immediate pass on voting for Joe...If Trump's good at anything, it's his ability to produce a stout economy.

    You social justice warriors, liberals, and left wing people better start focusing on what a Biden presidency would do to your 401k!!

    MAGA!!! Trump 2020!!! Avoid another Great Depression, Vote Don Trump in the fall!!!
     
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  2. Cortez88

    Cortez88 Senior
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    Please explain Trumps strengths in creating a robust and healthy US economy. Be specific. Also, explain Biden’s weaknesses in this area.
     
  3. ButHerEmails

    ButHerEmails Sophomore
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    And name the economic trends from President Obama that Trump not only reversed but that the reversal was also an improvement.
     
  4. mcmurtry66

    mcmurtry66 Senior
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    He botched Covid. Covid is the biggest issue we face. He has to go.
     
  5. td75

    td75 Hall of Famer
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    If I have to explain this, then your head was in the sand leading up to Corona...What a bizarre request...
     
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  6. td75

    td75 Hall of Famer
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    Covid is an unprecedented happening, not sure if anyone else would've done a whole lot better.
     
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  7. Cortez88

    Cortez88 Senior
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    Ha. OK. I guess you would have looked like a fool no matter the response.
     
  8. mcmurtry66

    mcmurtry66 Senior
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    I was happy with trump until then. But it hit on his watch and imo he handled it poorly. If it were gone maybe I’d feel differently. But it’s not. I fear it’s going to remain a cancer on all of us and we need new blood to address it as trump has already demonstrated he doesn’t know how. He needs to go.
     
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  9. td75

    td75 Hall of Famer
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    Go ahead and cast your Biden vote, but don't raise hell when the economy falls apart and everything is stagnant at best...That's NOT a place I want to be.

    I'm not going to vote Trump out because of an unprecedented virus that was fabricated in China, cable news businesses that scam the public and steer the narrative, and SJW that absolutely hate the police...
     
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  10. td75

    td75 Hall of Famer
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    You and I probably aren't far apart on these issues. I just disagree in the sense that Hillary or Biden could've handled Covid much better.

    The cable news media is driving a scary narrative of defunding police, the police are BAD, Trump is a Nazi, left wing socialism is right, etc. What a scary bunch of ideas they cling to!!! Unfortunately, many so called educated people, this board included, are falling for this group think!
     
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  11. mcmurtry66

    mcmurtry66 Senior
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    I hate the media too but we pissed away three months without devising a plan or strategy to cope. Today we remain where we were in March. That’s on trump. When I’m getting my Covid news on a random basketball message board from a guy living in Singapore there’s a problem.
     
  12. CO. Hoosier

    CO. Hoosier Hall of Famer
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    I don't know if Biden will produce a depression, but I have noticed that a substantial amount of Biden support comes from those in the safe harbor of government, academia, or other safe employment, or are of substantial wealth.
     
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  13. Cortez88

    Cortez88 Senior
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    Where do you think the economy is right now? You also seem to be very cavalier about the 120,000 dead Americans. Trump gave up on Covid because it is hard and he’s incapable, incompetent and he knows it.
     
  14. BCCHoosier

    BCCHoosier Senior
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    Can you not look at GDP growth, wage growth, and stock market returns for the last 35 years? All EASILY searched. The fact you are trying to sell that only good things happened under Trump is a pure lie.

    Trump inherited a great situation from Obama. That is a fact.
     
  15. BCCHoosier

    BCCHoosier Senior
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    About anyone would have done be better, Republican or Democrat. He went from saying it was a farce to saying deaths under 60k would be a success. Here we stand over double that with no end in sight.

    He set a 3 stage plan for states reopening and couldn't even stick to that. Just a mess. Are you really this stupid or just trying to be obtuse?
     
  16. Cortez88

    Cortez88 Senior
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    It’s fascinating to see how successful right wing media, specifically Fox and Rush, has been at convincing so many that the Democrats are the enemy. If you are voting for Trump, its because you hate Democrats. Trump has been a complete disaster and will go down as the worst POTUS in the history of our country. If you are voting for him, there are ulterior motives.
     
  17. Bowlmania

    Bowlmania Senior
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    Trump 2020! Vote for Trump if you couldn't care less about the rule of law, separation of powers, Congressional oversight, an independent judiciary, an Attorney General who serves as a lapdog for the president, the First Amendment, shitting on our allies, sucking up to dictators, and the viability of our constitutional republic.
     
  18. jsig

    jsig Senior
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    Don't worry. I will never vote for a Democrat again. Biden is a lost cause. People who preach government but can't properly manage it need to go. The 2 party system needs removed. I may vote for Republicans but not Trump but it is mostly because DEmocrats are the other side of the coin. Once the Democratic party is gone then we can go after and get rid of the Republican party. There needs to be representation for the regular people which constitute well over 50% of the US and do not identify with either party. Instead we have debates between Republicans and Democrats for president and they lock out the rest. I favor the right not to vote for the REP and DEM low lifes.
     
  19. DCDAVID

    DCDAVID Freshman
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    Trump continues to get positive poll results in regards to the economy. This is a result of the Democrats lack of effectively countering his claims (which is maddening) and people falling for Trumps wildly incorrect statements that he has overseen the greatest economy in history.
    If you look at the actual numbers, rather than listen to the egomaniacs proclamations, you will see that Trump has done no better than maintain what he inherited from Obama.
    Trump has often stated he inherited a disaster and turned it into the greatest economy ever.
    Job growth during the last three years of Obama (ie the “disaster”that was inherited) averaged over 200,000 per month under Obama but was under 200,000 a month during Trumps first three years (I am not including the pandemic decrease).
    GDP growth has not been better under Trump nor has the percentage increase in the stock market. The idiot continuously brags when the market hits an all time high as if it’s a miracle solely performed by him. Guess what, the market goes up over time and virtually every president has presided over a record stock market.
    Trump also took many shots at Obama’s deficit and claimed he would balance the budget. Most conservatives don’t say a word about the deficit, since a Republican is in office, but Trump is running higher annual deficits than he inherited from Obama hitting 984 billion in fiscal 2019 and a projected 1.1 trillion in fiscal 2020 before the c-19 stimulus measures. The actual number will be staggering. The 2019 increase was in spite of “the greatest economy ever” and not incurring the expense of a massive Mideast military presence.

    Below is from a January Forbes article in regards to GDP growth under the two presidents:

    Using the same GDP metric of consumer spending plus business investment adjusted for inventory changes, Obama’s last three years in office had growth rates of at least 2.17% and as high as 3.06%.

    For Trump the high point was 2.83% in 2018 when the tax cut seems to have had the largest impact and even fell short of Obama’s 2014 and 2015 growth rates of 3.06% and 3.05%, respectively.

    In 2019 the adjusted growth rate was only 1.99%. This is less than Obama’s three last years in office and less than five of his last six years.

    I use the timeframe of Obama’s last three years to compare to Trump’s three years since they had similar economic environments and are not distorted by the Great Recession.
     
    19 DCDAVID, Jun 22, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2020
  20. BCCHoosier

    BCCHoosier Senior
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    Bravo and thank you. I was too lazy to document the way you did. Plus I'm trying to work...kind of.

    People like TD fascinate me. How can someone be so easily fooled?
     
  21. Sope Creek

    Sope Creek Hall of Famer
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    If you can't teach somebody, you don't know it . . . it's damned clear you don't know what you're talking about.
     
  22. glmiu11

    glmiu11 Junior
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    I’ll add:
    A band of hired and fired officials that say he’s unfit
    A complete lack of empathy
    An arrogance that comes off as insecurity
    An apparent lack of knowledge necessary to make foreign policy decisions
    A need to create hate and division all for the purpose of re-election

    It’s not hard to see why the economy improved under Trump. It was on the rise under the previous administration. Then, you have a new President who doesn’t believe in regulation for so many areas. You save money, but create future problems that will be more expensive. His Covid response explains it all in my opinion.
     
  23. Sope Creek

    Sope Creek Hall of Famer
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    That's a pretty good list, glm . . . I would suggest that the arrogance/insecurity comment be reversed though . . . it's his insecurities that drive his need to be arrogant. It's the only way he can fake being in control, because he knows damned well that he doesn't have the competence not to have the insecurities.
     
  24. glmiu11

    glmiu11 Junior
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    You said what I think way better than I did.
     
  25. bigmac76

    bigmac76 All-American
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    A "stout economy" and a stout stock market are two entirely different things. The economy was starting to chug downward last fall...Covid19 pushed it over the edge.
     
  26. Sope Creek

    Sope Creek Hall of Famer
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    IMHO, folks like that want to be fooled . . . they prefer to live in an illusion because they can't control themselves or their environments sufficiently to deal with reality as it actually is . . . it's part of the human condition . . . we pretty much all do it.
     
  27. iuwclurker

    iuwclurker All-Big Ten
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    Before Covid Trump boosted the 1%er economy with the biggest 3-year stimulus in the history of the world.

    Then he not only botched covid but is continuing by double-, triple-, and quadrupling down on his ignorance.

    He set back the environment decades.

    He set back our diplomacy decades.

    He has continually undermined our strength as the world’s sole superpower, thus nerfing our greatness.

    Trump’s singular accomplishment is to be so repugnantly ignorant, racist, and sexist, among other idiocies that the US is finally changing for the better in those regards.

    Trump’s minor accomplishment is to gather the likes of you into one camp for the rest of us to see and recognize.
     
  28. DCDAVID

    DCDAVID Freshman
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    https://fortune.com/2019/11/01/trump-obama-markets-comparison-s-and-p-500-dow-nasdaq-economy/

    Trump often uses the stock market as his proof of success. The link above shows the market performance under Obama vs Trump (prior to the pandemic swoon). I’ll save you time, if you don’t want to open the link, and let you know that market growth was greater under Obama. I don’t subscribe to the notion that the president is solely responsible for the market but am passing this along as Trump seems to think he is solely and completely responsible when the market hits a new high (he is conspicuously quiet when there is a correction).
     
    28 DCDAVID, Jun 22, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2020
  29. JamieDimonsBalls

    JamieDimonsBalls All-American
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    I don't quite understand that line of thinking that Biden (or anyone) would fix the problem by the time they enter office. It would be an impossible task.
     
  30. mcmurtry66

    mcmurtry66 Senior
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    Yeah my mistake as I didn’t mean to imply that he would. I KNOW trump hasn’t so much like a failing coach I’m ready to give the next guy a shot. Covid is the biggest issue we face.
     
  31. glmiu11

    glmiu11 Junior
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    I do wish Biden would publicly, bluntly say that he has no plans to defund the police.
    I agree with reforms in hiring, accountability, and arrest methods, and others.
    But the police deserve respect for what they do on a daily basis.
     
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  32. cosmickid

    cosmickid All-American
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    Well, there are plenty of reasons others would have done better- starting with taking the issue of pandemic preparedness seriously early on. Before we even were aware of COVID...

    If we didn't know it before, (and most of us did), we got confirmation from Bolton last night about just how little attention Trump paid to anything NOT related to his re-election. He doesn't even read his daily National Security Briefing, so I guess it's not unsurprising to realize that something as "inconsequential" as this would escape his attention. Guess they didn't have a feature on it on OAN?

    From the Oct 24, 2019 edition of the WaPo...

    "Oct. 24, 2019, at 1:44 p.m. EDT
    After an Ebola epidemic devastated West Africa in 2014, many countries took steps to boost their preparedness. But even as the risk of such outbreaks increases, no country — the United States included — is fully prepared to respond to a deliberate or accidental threat with the potential to wipe out humanity, according to a report assessing the efforts of 195 countries.

    The report, released Thursday, is the first comprehensive assessment of global health capabilities, giving countries an overall score based on several measures. Unlike other ratings, the Global Health Security Index benchmarks health security in the context of tools critical to fighting outbreaks, such as robust health systems, adherence to global norms, and political and security risks, including public confidence in government.

    The United States does well in five of six preparedness categories but ranks 19th — after Australia, Canada, Singapore and more than a half-dozen European countries — in an assessment of overall risk and vulnerability to biological threats."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...luded-is-fully-prepared-pandemic-report-says/

    Now question for you... Given your druthers, would you rather have the POTUS read this report and be aware of the issues it discusses, or ignore it completely?

    Remember this is Oct 24, 2019 and right there in the POTUS's hometown Newspaper is a just-released report on the preparedness problems the US would face if struck by a pandemic...

    So the next morning, the most pressing issue on the then POTUS's "mind" is complaining to Tim Cook about changes made to the iPhone in 2017...



    I guess Trump couldn't be expected to take note of the report, and maybe try to work on improving the situation. Of course, no one would have been paying attention to this issue as far back as then. Right?




    Guess Joe considered issues surrounding US preparedness a touch more important on Oct 25 than whining about the changes to the iPhone...

    "COVID is an unprecedented happening, not sure if anyone else would've done a whole lot better"

    Now that is your claim (relayed from Team Trump Apology Central)... But is it true?

    We know that Trump placed less emphasis on Pandemic Preparedness than previous Administrations (Bush and Obama).
    We know that he used budget cuts in that area and a downplaying of the 2 previous Administrations' priorities to shift funding in the DHS arena to his "wall"...

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politi...ng-stone-timeline-coronavirus-america-982944/


    As it turns out one thing Trump DID DO likely played a key role in the US being caught with our pants down by a virus outbreak in China...

    "Several months before the coronavirus pandemic began, the Trump administration eliminated a key American public health position in Beijing intended to help detect disease outbreaks in China, Reuters has learned. The American disease expert, a medical epidemiologist embedded in China’s disease control agency, left her post in July, according to four sources with knowledge of the issue. The American expert, Dr. Linda Quick, was a trainer of Chinese field epidemiologists who were deployed to the epicenter of outbreaks to help track, investigate and contain diseases.

    Experts including one former official who held that position told the news service that Quick, were she still in her position, would have had the opportunity to receive warning and information about the coronavirus outbreak possibly sooner than U.S. and other global health experts did. “It was heartbreaking to watch,” Bao-Ping Zhu, the former CDC official who held the role between 2007-2011, told the news agency. “If someone had been there, public health officials and governments across the world could have moved much faster.”

    https://khn.org/morning-breakout/tr...isease-outbreaks-in-china-several-months-ago/

    We know from your posts that you're a loyal Trumper who agrees with Trump that China is to blame for the virus. Would you also agree that Trump is responsible for the CHOICE he made, to eliminate a critical watchdog position that dates back to at least Bush?
     
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  33. jet812

    jet812 Senior
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    What metrics do you use to judge the economy?
     
  34. td75

    td75 Hall of Famer
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    The responses are par for the course on this board. The cable news media has the majority of you in their back pocket, they really do.

    Keep the pot stirred at an alarming level, stink the country up, turn police into the devils, defund the police, burn down cities and places of employment that don't have one thing to do with George Floyd's death...Yeah, that's what you folks are buying into...The lunacy of your beliefs is absolutely amazing. That's the frigging party you folks are buying into.

    As for Trump being arrogant/narcissistic, lacking empathy, please do some reading/research about exactly what kind of people typically run for political office, particularly high offices...Most are extremely arrogant people, LOVE being in the spotlight, and quite often display these narcissistic tendencies. Is there a such thing as a shy, humble, selfless politician?? I think not..
     
  35. glmiu11

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    Yes, but Biden, I believe, will let science dictate action. That’s an improvement.
     
  36. DrHoops

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    :rolleyes:

     
  37. twenty02

    twenty02 Hall of Famer
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    I haven't watched cable news in years. One doesn't need that to know that Trump is a grade A moron that's totally unsuited for office.

    Your understanding of the economy is tepid, at best. And that's being kind.
     
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  38. Cortez88

    Cortez88 Senior
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    The lack of self awareness of someone who supports Donald Trump is truly astounding. I guess that’s the only way you can get there though. You have to turn reality on it’s head. Otherwise you have to actually look In the mirror and ask yourself the hard questions.
     
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  39. glmiu11

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    I just don’t understand this. Are there left wing nuts? Yes. Do you have to be one if you think Trump is hurting us? No.
     
  40. INRanger27

    INRanger27 All-American
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    This is such deep insight. Very appreciated.
     
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