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2017 IN class has 6 four and five star players, but only 1 is leaning towards IU

I think it depends on your definition of elite. It is like the argument when it comes to be a HOFer because some want to put every very good player in the hall of fame where as some think it is just for the very top players.
No what the difference is college production. Skai Labiisirre was an elite talent but Swanigan turned in better production. Both 5 stars.
 
They are subjective but the teams getting the top talent are typically in the national title hunt every year.
As for Crean recruiting...it has taken a step back recently. Just look at the makeup of our current roster. Only 5 of the entire 13 players were 4 or 5 star recruits with only JBJ being the 5 star.

JBJ-5 star

Davis, Cujo, RJ, Bryant-4 stars

Hartman, Newkirk, Morgan, OG, Green, MCSwain-3 stars

2 stars, Gelon, Priller

My question now is how many five or four star players does Coach Crean need to be successful? Can three star recruits develop to be important pieces to a team? Morgan was more of a four star than a three star but that is splitting hairs. Lol
 
My question now is how many five or four star players does Coach Crean need to be successful? Can three star recruits develop to be important pieces to a team? Morgan was more of a four star than a three star but that is splitting hairs. Lol
That's I don't know...I don't think he is a great in game coach so the more talent the better but I do like he has been adding some nice role players like Morgan, Hartman, NZ but my fear he isn't landing the Cody Zeller type recruit. I think this year we should be solid but I will be interested to see how we doing going forward. 17 class needs to be a really good one in my opinion and not getting any of the Indiana kids will upset a lot of Indiana fans. Also with Ctc does he need to have veteran teams to be successful? His two best teams were upperclass heavy.
 
Huh?

Newkirk hasn't even been at IU for a year. How will this coming season be his THIRD in Crean's offense?



There is not a guard we have on the roster who is better at taking the ball to the basket and attacking than PS. There just isn't. And considering Crean's offense focuses on that (and transition), Scruggs would see plenty of time if not start his freshman year.

That's wishful thinking, though. Likely he ends up in Cincinnati.
I am surprised at the number of folks that think Scruggs won't play as a Freshman where ever he goes he will play significant minutes
I think you're right in that PS will get major minutes wherever he goes. I think how often he starts depends on where he goes, team injuries and his willingness to let others handle the ball.
 
We were deciding if a RECRUIT was elite and not a player was elite. Was VO a elite recruit no but he became an elite player.
I said an elite talent. You are the one that put the top 10-15 label on it. VO had elite athletic ability that he worked his butt off to become an Elite bball player.
 
I think it depends on your definition of elite. It is like the argument when it comes to be a HOFer because some want to put every very good player in the hall of fame where as some think it is just for the very top players.
It also depends when the determination that someone is "elite" is made. Is it made when the person is recruited or after he has been on the team and developed?

Some people say a recruit earns 'elite' status depending on where he is ranked when he signs his LOI. Others say "elite status" is judged after the recruit has signed and played a season or two. IMHO, either way of doing it is correct since it is a subjective opinion as to where the bar is for being elite.

Based on where he was ranked when he was signed, most people feel TB was not an elite recruit. Based on how he developed during his first year, a good case can be made that TB was an elite player.
 
It also depends when the determination that someone is "elite" is made. Is it made when the person is recruited or after he has been on the team and developed?

Some people say a recruit earns 'elite' status depending on where he is ranked when he signs his LOI. Others say "elite status" is judged after the recruit has signed and played a season or two. IMHO, either way of doing it is correct since it is a subjective opinion as to where the bar is for being elite.

Based on where he was ranked when he was signed, most people feel TB was not an elite recruit. Based on how he developed during his first year, a good case can be made that TB was an elite player.
Tab was an elite recruit by skill and by the desperate need of a Big man was for the program.
 
No what the difference is college production. Skai Labiisirre was an elite talent but Swanigan turned in better production. Both 5 stars.

This is what I was going to say. The one-and-dones aren't always that productive. Give me DeRon Davis over Deyonta Davis or Skal every time. That's just me though. I get that people want the excitement of landing a one-and-done.

As for Scruggs, he looks like a beast to me. Pros sometimes look they are playing slow or deliberate because they see the game so well. Scruggs, to my eye, plays like a pro already. I really wanted Scruggs, but I think a backcourt of Johnson and Newkirk as seniors (assuming they both stay) will be pretty awesome.

I hate hearing that Wilkes is pining for a Kentucky offer. This is one of the possible drawbacks with Crean's recruiting approach. I remember some of you talking about how Crean has lessened the prestige of an IU offer, because he is so quick to put offers out there. Now we have Indiana kids waiting for a UK offer like they were teenage girls waiting and hoping for the quarterback to ask them to the prom.

I don't like it, but at least from my perspective it helps to weed out the one-and-done players that I would prefer avoid. If Calipari offers Wilkes and heads to Lexington, then he's a likely one-and-done. In that case maybe IU would be better off with Tucker or Smith. If Calipari doesn't offer, then maybe IU gets Wilkes for 2-3 years.
 
This is what I was going to say. The one-and-dones aren't always that productive. Give me DeRon Davis over Deyonta Davis or Skal every time. That's just me though. I get that people want the excitement of landing a one-and-done.

As for Scruggs, he looks like a beast to me. Pros sometimes look they are playing slow or deliberate because they see the game so well. Scruggs, to my eye, plays like a pro already. I really wanted Scruggs, but I think a backcourt of Johnson and Newkirk as seniors (assuming they both stay) will be pretty awesome.

I hate hearing that Wilkes is pining for a Kentucky offer. This is one of the possible drawbacks with Crean's recruiting approach. I remember some of you talking about how Crean has lessened the prestige of an IU offer, because he is so quick to put offers out there. Now we have Indiana kids waiting for a UK offer like they were teenage girls waiting and hoping for the quarterback to ask them to the prom.

I don't like it, but at least from my perspective it helps to weed out the one-and-done players that I would prefer avoid. If Calipari offers Wilkes and heads to Lexington, then he's a likely one-and-done. In that case maybe IU would be better off with Tucker or Smith. If Calipari doesn't offer, then maybe IU gets Wilkes for 2-3 years.
So if he goes to uk Wilkes is a one and done but if he goes to IU he is 2-3? To me Wilkes is either one or two years in college tops.
 
So if he goes to uk Wilkes is a one and done but if he goes to IU he is 2-3? To me Wilkes is either one or two years in college tops.

I didn't say definitely 2-3 as if it were a law. I said maybe. I'm just saying that Cal is most certainly targeting one-and-dones, and if he doesn't offer Wilkes perhaps he doesn't view him as a one-and-done. It's probably a moot point anyway, because Wilkes probably is a one-and-done and Cal probably will eventually offer.
 
Searched Rvials class ratings sorry Newkirk was not a top 50 recruit and his offer list is not comparable to PS

I was never comparing who was a better recruit between Scruggs and Newkirk, but i was comparing a fifth year senior who is athletic with good handles and a nice freshman. I would rather have the veteran who should know the offense forwards and backwards and who has built chemistry with the rest of his teammates. If Scruggs was at a Gordon, Langford, Zeller, or Vonleh talent level when they were freshman then it would be a no brainier.
 
I was never comparing who was a better recruit between Scruggs and Newkirk, but i was comparing a fifth year senior who is athletic with good handles and a nice freshman.

We really don't know how good Josh is, do we?

I'm not saying he's NOT a good ball handler, but he wasn't a high ranked recruit for a reason. And he's had a knee injury and been on the shelf a year.

Let's see what JN can do before we give him the nod. He might be ready, but we don't know.
 
I was never comparing who was a better recruit between Scruggs and Newkirk, but i was comparing a fifth year senior who is athletic with good handles and a nice freshman. I would rather have the veteran who should know the offense forwards and backwards and who has built chemistry with the rest of his teammates. If Scruggs was at a Gordon, Langford, Zeller, or Vonleh talent level when they were freshman then it would be a no brainier.
You came up with the number 28 for some reason let's hope Newkirk is much improved over his Pittsburgh days........ and I mean much
 
You came up with the number 28 for some reason let's hope Newkirk is much improved over his Pittsburgh days........ and I mean much

If you look at what you quoted then you would know bsmitty posted it. He was referring that there were 28 people ranked higher than him at his position.
 
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We really don't know how good Josh is, do we?

I'm not saying he's NOT a good ball handler, but he wasn't a high ranked recruit for a reason. And he's had a knee injury and been on the shelf a year.

Let's see what JN can do before we give him the nod. He might be ready, but we don't know.

I completely understand but my original point was that there is no guarantee for Scruggs to start his freshman year, and it could push him to go else where for more playing time.
 
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I think that player development through training and experience goes right over your head. Again not comparing PS and a freshman NewKirk but a fifth year senior.
It doesn't but Priller has had 2 years of development guess he should get playing time ahead of Davis. I know that is not a fair comparison but through the years there have been a bunch of top 50 freshman that have played ahead of Juniors and Seniors let's watch how it plays out....................
 
It doesn't but Priller has had 2 years of development guess he should get playing time ahead of Davis. I know that is not a fair comparison but through the years there have been a bunch of top 50 freshman that have played ahead of Juniors and Seniors let's watch how it plays out....................
Let's at least see JN play before we make a determination.

And, again, he might really turn out to be good. I hope so; PG is my biggest concern for the upcoming season.
 
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It doesn't but Priller has had 2 years of development guess he should get playing time ahead of Davis. I know that is not a fair comparison but through the years there have been a bunch of top 50 freshman that have played ahead of Juniors and Seniors let's watch how it plays out....................
Newkirk did have offers from Arizona, Memphis and Georgia Tech as well as Pitt so it was not like he was not recruited by power conference teams
 
The problem with lets wait and see approach is that Scruggs wants to make his decision this fall, so he is not going to wait and see. He will be looking at our roster situation this fall and he will find: three seniors, two sophomores; which I think will be better than most people think, and what freshman Crean recruits for next year. So if Scruggs does not come here, I think it will be more of a playing time issue than anything else.
 
Let's at least see JN play before we make a determination.

And, again, he might really turn out to be good. I hope so; PG is my biggest concern for the upcoming season.

Agree with this. Small tidbits of information flowing out of practices last year had JN looking really good. Plus practicing/watching Yogi can't hurt either. I think JN is going to be a very good guard for us.
 
Agree with this. Small tidbits of information flowing out of practices last year had JN looking really good. Plus practicing/watching Yogi can't hurt either. I think JN is going to be a very good guard for us.
Hope so, definitely need a true PG.
 
The problem with lets wait and see approach is that Scruggs wants to make his decision this fall, so he is not going to wait and see. He will be looking at our roster situation this fall and he will find: three seniors, two sophomores; which I think will be better than most people think, and what freshman Crean recruits for next year. So if Scruggs does not come here, I think it will be more of a playing time issue than anything else.
I just don't see that scaring him off. We play 3 guards at all times. Playting time will be there by the time he gets here.
 
Because we didn't have that many. Hell if you remember we only had Yofi, RJ and NZ and you know NZ isn't a major minutes player

I am hoping OG will get major minutes at the three, but I do understand that I probably will not get what I am hoping for.

I do agree with you that it is best to be reflective than pre-judgmental.
 
I am hoping OG will get major minutes at the three, but I do understand that I probably will not get what I am hoping for.

I do agree with you that it is best to be reflective than pre-judgmental.
You won't hear me argue about that. People think last year we
Improved defensively because of JBJ's injury but a big part of that is not so much JBJ but the fact that it made CTC play longer guys at the 3. Instead of playing 3 guys 6'3 or shorter we played two guys and the 3rd ended up being a 6'6 or 7 guy. So we now had a lineup of
5'11
6'3
6'7
6'7
6'10
 
You won't hear me argue about that. People think last year we
Improved defensively because of JBJ's injury but a big part of that is not so much JBJ but the fact that it made CTC play longer guys at the 3. Instead of playing 3 guys 6'3 or shorter we played two guys and the 3rd ended up being a 6'6 or 7 guy. So we now had a lineup of
5'11
6'3
6'7
6'7
6'10
I hope we would see this as our starting lineup but I doubt it will happen
Newkirk
Johnson
Hartman
OG
Bryant
I would like to see JBJ come off the bench and be that scoring spark we need with the second unit.
 
I hope we would see this as our starting lineup but I doubt it will happen
Newkirk
Johnson
Hartman
OG
Bryant
I would like to see JBJ come off the bench and be that scoring spark we need with the second unit.
This or start RJ at point and play jbj at the 2. Bring newkirk in for any of the guards and the other just slides off the ball when newkirk comes in.
 
I hope we would see this as our starting lineup but I doubt it will happen
Newkirk
Johnson
Hartman
OG
Bryant
I would like to see JBJ come off the bench and be that scoring spark we need with the second unit.

I think from a confidence standpoint it's important to JB Jr. for him to start. Plus no one can argue his shot when healthy. We'll need him stretching the floor to open lanes/post for our bigs.

Hartman to me is more emotionally prepared to come off the bench because he plays for Indiana not at it.
 
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