1979 NIT FINAL

[FormerRevMatt]

I've been watching some old IU games and watched the 1979 NIT final against Purdue last night. Some observations (and keep in mind that I'm too young to actually remember any of the IU teams from the 70s -- I've just watched some old games after the fact):

1.) In any game I seem to watch, Butch Carter never seems to show much. He doesn't seem to be a great ball handler or shooter. I know he played in the NBA, and I'm a little surprised.

2.) I know Mike Woodson is considered IU royalty, but of all of the games I've seen recently, he never seems to shoot well. I would guess I've just seen the wrong games.

3.) I know that Lee Rose left Purdue and the reason was rumored to be his negative feelings towards the AD King, but he could really coach. I think that the rivalry between the 2 teams might've been even more intense if Purdue could've kept him.

4.) It was obvious from the very beginning that Randy Wittman was a baller from his Frosh year.

5.) After watching some games from the 70s, I am even more sure that the motion offense could be effective, even in the days of the shorter shot clock. Some of IU's best teams actually shot the ball pretty quickly. There would just be the need to get the ball upcourt quickly and get the motion started ASAP.

 

[Jssanto]

I remember that game. Wasn’t Jerry Schisting guarding someone (Carter?) at the very top of the key and we made a tough shot?
I remember Bobby called it a losers tournament

 

[Circlejoe]

I remember that game. Wasn’t Jerry Schisting guarding someone (Carter?) at the very top of the key and we made a tough shot?
I remember Bobby called it a losers tournament

I was at the game. The final minute seemed to take forever. Multiple timeouts. Hell of an ending.

 

[Birnk403]

I've been watching some old IU games and watched the 1979 NIT final against Purdue last night. Some observations (and keep in mind that I'm too young to actually remember any of the IU teams from the 70s -- I've just watched some old games after the fact):

1.) In any game I seem to watch, Butch Carter never seems to show much. He doesn't seem to be a great ball handler or shooter. I know he played in the NBA, and I'm a little surprised.

2.) I know Mike Woodson is considered IU royalty, but of all of the games I've seen recently, he never seems to shoot well. I would guess I've just seen the wrong games.

3.) I know that Lee Rose left Purdue and the reason was rumored to be his negative feelings towards the AD King, but he could really coach. I think that the rivalry between the 2 teams might've been even more intense if Purdue could've kept him.

4.) It was obvious from the very beginning that Randy Wittman was a baller from his Frosh year.

5.) After watching some games from the 70s, I am even more sure that the motion offense could be effective, even in the days of the shorter shot clock. Some of IU's best teams actually shot the ball pretty quickly. There would just be the need to get the ball upcourt quickly and get the motion started ASAP.

You’ve not seen the best of either Butch or Woody. BC was a very good athlete who did a number of things well. He was also extremely bright and very competitive. Woody was one of the best offensive players Knight ever had. Very good shooter, skilled at getting open, and clutch.

Lee Rose was never staying long at Purdue. He wasn’t a fan of GK, but he had other aspirations. He would’ve made them very good, but Keady brought a fire and competitiveness that made the rivalry great.

Wittman was plug and play good from the start, in large part because he was so versatile.

Motion, run correctly, wore teams out, both physically and mentally. But it was a team game, and it required discipline. It would work anywhere.

 

[Davehack]

I remember that game. Wasn’t Jerry Schisting guarding someone (Carter?) at the very top of the key and we made a tough shot?
I remember Bobby called it a losers tournament

I think RMK respected the tradition of the NIT which in those days featured some very good teams. When the NCAA expanded even further it then left alot fewer quality teams for the NIT. RMK hated the CCA tournament from the early 1970s which featured all the major conference runner ups.

 

[abraxis]

I remember that game well on TV. The next morning I was scheduled to drive out to Colorado to ski with a carload of Purdue diehards. Right after the game the day before, I was able to drive to the mall and purchase one of those quick print 1979 IU NIT Champions tee shirts. Needless to say, when they picked me up, I was wearing that shirt with an extra bounce to my step. It about killed 'em.

 

[Jssanto]

I think RMK respected the tradition of the NIT which in those days featured some very good teams. When the NCAA expanded even further it then left alot fewer quality teams for the NIT. RMK hated the CCA tournament from the early 1970s which featured all the major conference runner ups.

Maybe it was the CCA he didn’t like

 

[Davehack]

Maybe it was the CCA he didn’t like

It was kinda interesting. For those who were around back then you probably recall this. First year for the CCA in 1974 (it only lasted a couple years) it was started so conference runner ups had a chance to play in a tournament. Had potential to be bigger than the NIT. (The NCAA tournament back then only took the conference champion. 2 teams from a conference were not allowed). We were conference co-champions with Michigan. A playoff game was played to see which team would go to the NCAA tournament which UM won. IU was still considered a Big Ten co-champion in spite of this. When IU was invited to the CCA, RMK did not want to play in it because we were co-champion and not runner ups. IU would up playing in it anyway and winning it easily.

 

[13thman]

It was kinda interesting. For those who were around back then you probably recall this. First year for the CCA in 1974 (it only lasted a couple years) it was started so conference runner ups had a chance to play in a tournament. Had potential to be bigger than the NIT. (The NCAA tournament back then only took the conference champion. 2 teams from a conference were not allowed). We were conference co-champions with Michigan. A playoff game was played to see which team would go to the NCAA tournament which UM won. IU was still considered a Big Ten co-champion in spite of this. When IU was invited to the CCA, RMK did not want to play in it because we were co-champion and not runner ups. IU would up playing in it anyway and winning it easily.

Another factor was that RMK felt that the CCA was undercutting the NIT. He had some reverence for it from his years at Army.

 

[Crossblock]

I think RMK respected the tradition of the NIT which in those days featured some very good teams. When the NCAA expanded even further it then left alot fewer quality teams for the NIT. RMK hated the CCA tournament from the early 1970s which featured all the major conference runner ups.

Many people may not be old enough to remember this, but in the 1950's and into the early 1960's the NIT Tournament was more prestigious than the NCAA. There were cases of teams who qualified for the NCAA who turned their back and accepted bids to the NIT. In part it was due to the fact that most if not all NIT games were played in Madison Square Garden and New York and the East were considered the center of College Basketball and the center of Media Coverage. There were probably two things in the 1960's that changed the environment.
1. Texas Western's Championship win over Kentucky in the 1965 NCAA Tournament. Many people don't realize that that game was held at old Cole Field House at University of Maryland and was certainly not nationally televised if televised at all.

2. The television broadcast of more regular season games and the emergence of the UCLA Dynasty. The made for TV game between Lew Alcindor and UCLA and University of Houston and Elvin Hayes in the old Astrodome was probably the height of that development.

 

[Birnk403]

Many people may not be old enough to remember this, but in the 1950's and into the early 1960's the NIT Tournament was more prestigious than the NCAA. There were cases of teams who qualified for the NCAA who turned their back and accepted bids to the NIT. In part it was due to the fact that most if not all NIT games were played in Madison Square Garden and New York and the East were considered the center of College Basketball and the center of Media Coverage. There were probably two things in the 1960's that changed the environment.
1. Texas Western's Championship win over Kentucky in the 1965 NCAA Tournament. Many people don't realize that that game was held at old Cole Field House at University of Maryland and was certainly not nationally televised if televised at all.

2. The television broadcast of more regular season games and the emergence of the UCLA Dynasty. The made for TV game between Lew Alcindor and UCLA and University of Houston and Elvin Hayes in the old Astrodome was probably the height of that development.

All correct except the Texas Western championship over Kentucky was in 1966, not ‘65.

 

[Crossblock]

All,correct except the Texas Western championship over Kentucky was in 1966, not ‘65.

Thanks for the correction. I may have one more correction to make. After posting this, and thinking back, the UCLA - Houston game may have been available on Closed Circuit Screening rather than over the air TV, For those who aren't old enough to remember, before Pay Per View TV, we had Closed Circuit Telecasts. The promoter or holder of Broadcast rights would contract with a venue usually a theater to show the telecast, and the Venue would sell tickets. I remember listening to the second half of the UCLA - Houston game on radio on our kitchen table which makes me think it wasn't on over the air TV.

 

[Birnk403]

Thanks for the correction. I may have one more correction to make. After posting this, and thinking back, the UCLA - Houston game may have been available on Closed Circuit Screening rather than over the air TV, For those who aren't old enough to remember, before Pay Per View TV, we had Closed Circuit Telecasts. The promoter or holder of Broadcast rights would contract with a venue usually a theater to show the telecast, and the Venue would sell tickets. I remember listening to the second half of the UCLA - Houston game on radio on our kitchen table which makes me think it wasn't on over the air TV.

It was definitely on tv.

 

[history Bill]

I've been watching some old IU games and watched the 1979 NIT final against Purdue last night. Some observations (and keep in mind that I'm too young to actually remember any of the IU teams from the 70s -- I've just watched some old games after the fact):

1.) In any game I seem to watch, Butch Carter never seems to show much. He doesn't seem to be a great ball handler or shooter. I know he played in the NBA, and I'm a little surprised.

2.) I know Mike Woodson is considered IU royalty, but of all of the games I've seen recently, he never seems to shoot well. I would guess I've just seen the wrong games.

3.) I know that Lee Rose left Purdue and the reason was rumored to be his negative feelings towards the AD King, but he could really coach. I think that the rivalry between the 2 teams might've been even more intense if Purdue could've kept him.

4.) It was obvious from the very beginning that Randy Wittman was a baller from his Frosh year.

5.) After watching some games from the 70s, I am even more sure that the motion offense could be effective, even in the days of the shorter shot clock. Some of IU's best teams actually shot the ball pretty quickly. There would just be the need to get the ball upcourt quickly and get the motion started ASAP.

From my memory Butch Carter got consistently better each year. And remember he hit the shot to beat Purdue in the NIT final. Yes, you didn't watch the right games to see Woodson's shooting. His best game was at Illinois (I believe his senior year) when he lit them up with 48 points. In conclusion, I'm glad I was around in the seventies to see those great IU teams.

 

[Birnk403]

From my memory Butch Carter got consistently better each year. And remember he hit the shot to beat Purdue in the NIT final. Yes, you didn't watch the right games to see Woodson's shooting. His best game was at Illinois (I believe his senior year) when he lit them up with 48 points. In conclusion, I'm glad I was around in the seventies to see those great IU teams.

His 48 point game at UI was in his junior year. He was BT MVP his senior year despite playing in only six of 18 conference games.

 

[Bippy]

RMK made his reputation in the NIT with his undersized Army teams
He hated the CCA, which was played only 2 years, IU won in '74 and Drake in '75.
UCLA-Houston was on TV
Woodson remains my favorite IU player. Never got the accolades he deserved and won Big Ten MVP despite missing most of his senior BT season due to back surgery
Wittman, the only player RMK said did not shoot enough

 

[all4iu76]

Now this is insightful and interesting basketball thread. Thanks everyone.

 

[Rasco123]

I remember that game well on TV. The next morning I was scheduled to drive out to Colorado to ski with a carload of Purdue diehards. Right after the game the day before, I was able to drive to the mall and purchase one of those quick print 1979 IU NIT Champions tee shirts. Needless to say, when they picked me up, I was wearing that shirt with an extra bounce to my step. It about killed 'em.

Snowmass/Aspen?

 

[steelyvan]

Another feature of the NIT Championship game was, IIRC, Jerry Sichting got a pretty good look at the buzzer but it rimmed out. IU wins. Beautiful thing.

 

[UncleMark]

Another feature of the NIT Championship game was, IIRC, Jerry Sichting got a pretty good look at the buzzer but it rimmed out. IU wins. Beautiful thing.

My recollection is that the celebration at Showalter and downtown after that game rivaled those we had in 76, 81, and 87.

 

[abraxis]

Snowmass/Aspen?

No, Crested Butte that particular year. In addition, I’ve skied Arapahoe East, Keystone, A-Basin, Vail, Beaver Creek, and Copper Mtn. Oh, and before all that, Valley-Hi Ski Area in Belfountain, OH (Mad River today), Boyne Highlands and Mountain in MI. My skiing days are over after an artificial L hip, painful R hip and general osteoarthritis of my joints, plus lower back pain and tinnitus in my ears. No complaints, though. It was a fun run. Now, it’s time to make room for the younger whippersnappers and their snowboards.

 

[Rasco123]

No, Crested Butte that particular year. In addition, I’ve skied Arapahoe East, Keystone, A-Basin, Vail, Beaver Creek, and Copper Mtn. Oh, and before all that, Valley-Hi Ski Area in Belfountain, OH (Mad River today), Boyne Highlands and Mountain in MI. My skiing days are over after an artificial L hip, painful R hip and general osteoarthritis of my joints, plus lower back pain and tinnitus in my ears. No complaints, though. It was a fun run. Now, it’s time to make room for the younger whippersnappers and their snowboards.

Im still a skiier... But the snow boarders Ruin the powder... Those are great places... Skied in West Virginia, Michigan... Nothinging compares to Co,... It's the Switzerland of the West...i have been there.., didn't ski... I hope to one day!

 

[abraxis]

Im still a skiier... But the snow boarders Ruin the powder... Those are great places... Skied in West Virginia, Michigan... Nothinging compares to Co,... It's the Switzerland of the West...i have been there.., didn't ski... I hope to one day!

Once you ski Colorado, you don't ski Michigan again unless it's to teach your wife or kids to ski with you in Colorado some day.

 

[.Gerdis]

I’m probably a typical Midwest skier. Grew up learning on man made snow/ice at a local place. Not a bad way to learn. The first time I went west it was a true treat. Not just for the length of the runs, the variety, or the beauty, but just getting away from the packed down ice and crap of what I was used to,

nothing like skiing out West. Besides CO love Jackson Hole, Taos and some of the WA state resorts. Haven’t made it to BC, Utah or Idaho yet.

Still, if you’ve been out west and you are lucky enough to have kids/grandkids that you can take skiing in the Midwest, like MI, life doesn’t get a whole lot better than that.

 

[Rasco123]

Co

Once you ski Colorado, you don't ski Michigan again unless it's to teach your wife or kids to ski with you in Colorado some day.

Perfectly said... Very true! I learned in Aspen/Snowmass and returned several times. Then I went to West Virginia and was like... What is this? But, we were invited by friends so... One of those things... We still enjoyed the time away...

 

[history Bill]

His 48 point game at UI was in his junior year. He was BT MVP his senior year despite playing in only six of 18 conference games.

Sounds right. I was going by memory. I do remember that the game was at Illinois. Not all games were televised in that day and I remember driving around Corydon drinking Big Red and listening to the game.

 

[Birnk403]

Sounds right. I was going by memory. I do remember that the game was at Illinois. Not all games were televised in that day and I remember driving around Corydon drinking Big Red and listening to the game.

WOWO, my man. WOWO. It was a very reliable way to hear Don and Max just about anywhere east of the Rockies.

 

[Radio Zero]

WOWO, my man. WOWO. It was a very reliable way to hear Don and Max just about anywhere east of the Rockies.

Yep. Growing up in the Detroit suburbs in the 70’s and 80’s, that WAS the link to IU sports for my dad and me. Spent many a winter’s evening listening to Art Salzburg (sp?) and Dean Pantasi (sp?, again) on “Sports Rap,” trying to glean insights into the football and basketball teams. Can’t even get it now in Mishawaka.

Loved Max Skirvin.

 

[Birnk403]

Yep. Growing up in the Detroit suburbs in the 70’s and 80’s, that WAS the link to IU sports for my dad and me. Spent many a winter’s evening listening to Art Salzburg (sp?) and Dean Pantasi (sp?, again) on “Sports Rap,” trying to glean insights into the football and basketball teams. Can’t even get it now in Mishawaka.

Loved Max Skirvin.

When WOWO was a true clear channel station, 1190 could be heard easily in Florida, Boston, Denver and even Albuquerque. Listened to WJR the same way and, on rare occasions when there was a night game, Bob Ufer. It was always an easy way to listen to EH and the Tigers. Max was the perfect complement to Don.