18-4 now... season wrapup predictions... 9 games remaining... W's & L's

[positiveHoosier]

Thank God we did not hire that cheat

I think most IU fans agree with you. And I probably agree with you, too.

But it illustrates the difficulty of our situation. 99.99% of fans around the country would be THRILLED to have John Calipari as their coach. IU fans are the .01%. Our culture is different, and it makes it much more difficult to win here.

 

[Iudanapoint]

I really can't help it if the argument is over your head or if you are too emotional to see the truth. You have no idea how close I am to this stuff.

Here is a suggestion: go ahead and put me on ignore. I'll be doing the same for you. I'd rather spend my time dealing with people who can disagree honorably and civilly like bsmitty.

It's not over my feet, let alone over my head. You've failed to make a persuasive argument that IU isn't elite because they won't cut corners. It's hogwash. If you're really that close, then you don't belong there. But I doubt you're in the same time zone. But you're wise to ignore what you can't hope to refute.

 

[bsmitty08]

If the standard is "compete well" and make a run once every 10-20 years, then sure...it can be done.

But to compare the state of Stanford or ND football with, say, Alabama, LSU, OSU, FSU, or the other football factories is simply not legit. There is a WORLD of separation between them.

As for Duke, they are benefiting from what IU had for so many years: a singular genius of a basketball coach. Because he is such an iconic brand, Krzyzewski transcends the normal rules of the game. Duke will struggle when he leaves, albeit not as much as IU has struggled since RMK was fired.

And let's not pretend that Duke is pure as the driven snow. Remember the $90,000 jewelry "loan" one of their players on the NC team got a few years ago? Remember how it got mysteriously repaid and the story just died. Yeah. Compliance.

Oh I get it trust me but also I wouldn't say IU is an innocent bystander while all these factories do their dealings.. Send me a pm. I have something to share not in Public

 

[positiveHoosier]

Oh I get it trust me but also I wouldn't say IU is an innocent bystander while all these factories do their dealings.. Send me a pm. I have something to share not in Public

Can you send it to my email address in my sig? I'm not a premium member so I can't pm.

 

[bsmitty08]

done

 

[positiveHoosier]

done

Thx. And again, I appreciate the civil and thoughtful discussion.

 

[TeeJay88]

IU has
Yogi, JBJ, Bryant, Williams and Rj that were all top 50 recruits..

PU has one Swanigan.

I will say PU does consistently recruit the lower 3rd of the top 100 pretty consistently and we are more top 50 or out of top 100 it seems.

Purdue has Swanigan, Hammons, Stephens, Smotherman, Haas and Davis all rated as four or five star coming out of HS. The discussion was top 100 which includes SOME three stars. It's pure bunk that Painter doesn't get talent. Those according to Rivals ratings

 

[fx400]

I realize you think beating the worst teams in the conference by large margins means IU is much better, but most people understood that was a bit of a smokescreen. Interested as to why you believe IU will close strongly in the back half of the conference season against the much stronger competition they'll face.

Pretty much because they have competed in every game, except Duke. There have been no blowout losses and even when the 3 is cold, they have found ways to win. In the B10 they have one loss in OT at Bucky, which is a tough place to play. So, I can see finishing 6-3 or 5-4 or better. You guys act like this team has totally fell apart, they have still won and the only loss was on the road in OT.

 

[bsmitty08]

Purdue has Swanigan, Hammons, Stephens, Smotherman, Haas and Davis all rated as four or five star coming out of HS. The discussion was top 100 which includes SOME three stars. It's pure bunk that Painter doesn't get talent. Those according to Rivals ratings

Swanigan is the first recruit since Mike Robinson that was a 5 star kid. Here is where the issue lies for IU and recruiting....we are all or nothing. We land a couple top 50 kids and then land a guy like PRiller, Gelon, Max, April. Very top heavy roster in most years. Which I am in the court that thinks Creans biggest issue is roster management/recruiting.

 

[TeeJay88]

We win/lose based on our defensive intensity. Pure and simple. Without Blackmon, we have stepped it up on D along with great additions from our Frosh. OG has been great on help D along with Morgan. Offense has never been the issue, so losing JB has actually helped this team. The last few games though we have played more like the beginning of the year with less intensity. If you would have told me before the Wiscy game that we would have scored almost 80 points and lost, I would've said you're nuts. Defense lost that game. Crean allowing Nigel Hayes to consistently go one on one and beat us practically by himself is typical Crean type of stuff.

If we turn up the D, we can beat anybody. If we think we're too good and play nonchalant then we can lose to anybody.

Offense was an issue in both of the last two games. We were 2-18 from three against Minnesota and their guards could just as easily have driven by JBJ as they did RJ.

 

[TeeJay88]

Swanigan is the first recruit since Mike Robinson that was a 5 star kid. Here is where the issue lies for IU and recruiting....we are all or nothing. We land a couple top 50 kids and then land a guy like PRiller, Gelon, Max, April. Very top heavy roster in most years. Which I am in the court that thinks Creans biggest issue is roster management/recruiting.

So three stars like Morgan, Annunoby, Hartman, Bielfeldt, Zeisloft don't make a difference? Priller on the end of our bench is the IU analogy of Chuck Nevitt. There is a loooong history of human victory cigars at IU. Witness Don Nordt

Glenn Robinson, not Mike. Again, the conversation was started about top 100.

 

[bsmitty08]

So three stars like Morgan, Annunoby, Hartman, Bielfeldt, Zeisloft don't make a difference? Priller on the end of our bench is the IU analogy of Chuck Nevitt. There is a loooong history of human victory cigars at IU. Witness Don Nordt

Glenn Robinson, not Mike. Again, the conversation was started about top 100.

No Mike Robinson was their last 5 star. Glen was before Mike. And those guys mentioned are fine if they stay 4 years. Our issue is recruiting and sustaining any type of front court depth. That is where he has failed miserably....Priller, April, Jurkin, Hanner, Bawa, Jobe,

 

[TeeJay88]

No Mike Robinson was their last 5 star. Glen was before Mike. And those guys mentioned are fine if they stay 4 years. Our issue is recruiting and sustaining any type of front court depth. That is where he has failed miserably....Priller, April, Jurkin, Hanner, Bawa, Jobe,

 

[blockm2]

I will take Bryant/Biefeldt over Donnal and UM backup

maybe, but Michigan's 5s can play good enough to make it a draw even allowing that Bryant is great. Donnal is great in the pick and roll and Bryant has been quite bad defending the roll man which could open up a bunch of good looks for Michigan at the rim.

 

[Paterfamilias]

Actually, Purdue has more four and five star players on it's roster than IU does. 8 since 2012 minus Ronnie Johnson is 7. We have 5

IMO the better way of looking at recruiting advantages is to look at RSCI Top 75 players landed. You may disagree or think ratings don't matter anyway and that is cool by me. In the past 8 years IU has landed 14 top 75 players while Purdue has landed 3. IU has creaned as many top 75 recruits in the last 2 years as Purdue has landed in 8 years. For every top 75 recruit Purdue has landed IU has landed 5.

 

[TeeJay88]

IMO the better way of looking at recruiting advantages is to look at RSCI Top 75 players landed. You may disagree or think ratings don't matter anyway and that is cool by me. In the past 8 years IU has landed 14 top 75 players while Purdue has landed 3. IU has creaned as many top 75 recruits in the last 2 years as Purdue has landed in 8 years. For every top 75 recruit Purdue has landed IU has landed 5.

I didn't set the parameters. Someone earlier in the thread claimed IU had more top 100 players than anyone in the conference and that is simply wrong. You may have a better way to determine player abilities and that's fine but, it isn't pertinent to the original quote.

 

[TeeJay88]

maybe, but Michigan's 5s can play good enough to make it a draw even allowing that Bryant is great. Donnal is great in the pick and roll and Bryant has been quite bad defending the roll man which could open up a bunch of good looks for Michigan at the rim.

Did you get bored discussing basketball with the other five posters on the UM Rivals site?

It isn't surprising you believe that. You are a Michigan fan, one of those who believe Beilein is a better coach than Izzo.

 

[TeeJay88]

No Mike Robinson was their last 5 star. Glen was before Mike. And those guys mentioned are fine if they stay 4 years. Our issue is recruiting and sustaining any type of front court depth. That is where he has failed miserably....Priller, April, Jurkin, Hanner, Bawa, Jobe,

I don't find anyplace where he was listed as a 5 star. He made the Burger game but that isn't indicative of five star status. TB is a burger boy but was a four star.

The news articles I read when Swanigan committed stated he was the first 5 star since Big Dogg.

 

[bsmitty08]

I don't find anyplace where he was listed as a 5 star. He made the Burger game but that isn't indicative of five star status. TB is a burger boy but was a four star.

The news articles I read when Swanigan committed stated he was the first 5 star since Big Dogg.

Ok..regardless. Swanigan is the first elite recruit since MIke Robinson.

 

[Paterfamilias]

I didn't set the parameters. Someone earlier in the thread claimed IU had more top 100 players than anyone in the conference and that is simply wrong. You may have a better way to determine player abilities and that's fine but, it isn't pertinent to the original quote.

Gotcha... my bad. I just caught the tail end of the conversation. It has taken a near perfect set up for Purdue to enjoy the top 100 advantage that they now hold. IU creaned Hollowell, Stan and Hanner and JB is injured. From a purely recruiting rankings standpoint, IU has nothing to be ashamed of though as 4 of the 5 starters are former top 50 recruits two being McDonald's All Americans.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

He said because how we played today indicates that we will be lucky to win 3 more games so why play the game if we already know we won't play well.

I think what he's really saying is the Minny game is indicative of the typical late season crap out Crean's teams are notorious for. In other words, the Minny game is the indicator that a LONG history will soon start repeating itself. You gotta put in a little more effort when reading comments. Like, when someone says "that team killed us" they don't actually mean our players are dead.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

See this is the kind of comment that makes people not like you because you think everyone is beneath you and you are condescending.

I told you I don't think how you play one day has anything to do with how you will play the next day. I hsve seen plenty of teams look unbeatable one game and then the next game they play terribly. I have show you plenty of examples of teams who had a bad streak of play that turned it around the next game.

You just have to ignore him. He challenges everything while never having an original thought. He doesn't post anything you can't pull out of that IU basketball history book that came out a few years ago. He claims to have all these credentials and to have "been around" the program for years, but never has a shred of proof. We're just expected to take him at his word while he tells everyone they don't know what they're talking about or that they know nothing about basketball. It's his only argument, which isn't really an argument, but likely a wall to shield his own insecurities. I think in his mind it makes him look smart. Now he'll probably run off to the mods about this post.

 

[TeeJay88]

Gotcha... my bad. I just caught the tail end of the conversation. It has taken a near perfect set up for Purdue to enjoy the top 100 advantage that they now hold. IU creaned Hollowell, Stan and Hanner and JB is injured. From a purely recruiting rankings standpoint, IU has nothing to be ashamed of though as 4 of the 5 starters are former top 50 recruits two being McDonald's All Americans.

I assumed Michigan State had far more top 100 guys on it's roster and surprisingly, it's only Valentine, Costello, Nairn, McQuaid and Davis. Michigan, Purdue and OSU have the most.

 

[TeeJay88]

You just have to ignore him. He challenges everything while never having an original thought. He doesn't post anything you can't pull out of that IU basketball history book that came out a few years ago. He claims to have all these credentials and to have "been around" the program for years, but never has a shred of proof. We're just expected to take him at his word while he tells everyone they don't know what they're talking about or that they know nothing about basketball. It's his only argument, which isn't really an argument, but likely a wall to shield his own insecurities. I think in his mind it makes him look smart. Now he'll probably run off to the mods about this post.

It's pretty acerbic.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

Chris Mack would not fit in with IU's culture AT ALL. Very thuggish and low-thinking. Have you ever heard one of his press conferences?

I don't lose sleep over press conferences or what the media thinks about the IU coach. If I did, I wouldn't have made it through the 70s, 80s, or 90s.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

Why would you say this? How is it "trolling" to support the coach?

I've been using facts, while the Crean-haters are relying on emotion.

Who is trolling?

Um, "Crean haters" use more facts and historical data than anyone on these forums. The "Crean lovers" use arguments like "who would do better?" or "If he only had more support" or "his first seven years don't really count" or "well, so and so lost in the tourney too".

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

so that would be above expectations then

Only if 6th place is asking too much

 

[Iudanapoint]

You just have to ignore him. He challenges everything while never having an original thought. He doesn't post anything you can't pull out of that IU basketball history book that came out a few years ago. He claims to have all these credentials and to have "been around" the program for years, but never has a shred of proof. We're just expected to take him at his word while he tells everyone they don't know what they're talking about or that they know nothing about basketball. It's his only argument, which isn't really an argument, but likely a wall to shield his own insecurities. I think in his mind it makes him look smart. Now he'll probably run off to the mods about this post.

More mindless babble from you. Isn't it enough that you don't have a clue here, Greg?

 

[Spa#2]

Um, "Crean haters" use more facts and historical data than anyone on these forums. The "Crean lovers" use arguments like "who would do better?" or "If he only had more support" or "his first seven years don't really count" or "well, so and so lost in the tourney too".

I thought only the first three years did not count. Oh and I suppose two years ago also does not count. You have no idea what he inherited, lol!

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

It's pretty acerbic.

It really is all he does. I stopped replying to him a long time ago. All he does is tell people they don't know what they're talking about. Every post he's ever made can be summed up with "you didn't change my mind and you're an idiot". Others can fall into that rat hole if they want, I just don't reply anymore.

 

[Iudanapoint]

It really is all he does. I stopped replying to him a long time ago. All he does is tell people they don't know what they're talking about. Every post he's ever made can be summed up with "you didn't change my mind and you're an idiot". Others can fall into that rat hole if they want, I just don't reply anymore.

If you could reply thoughtfully, you would. Its why you lack credibility here and in the other forum where you post.

 

[myrtlefan]

No reason to throw a fit, Scott. I just asked you a question about why the play and results of recent games weren't an indicator of future performance. Not a problem that you can't answer it.

He answered your question, he just didn't give you the answer you wanted.

 

[IU Scott]

You just have to ignore him. He challenges everything while never having an original thought. He doesn't post anything you can't pull out of that IU basketball history book that came out a few years ago. He claims to have all these credentials and to have "been around" the program for years, but never has a shred of proof. We're just expected to take him at his word while he tells everyone they don't know what they're talking about or that they know nothing about basketball. It's his only argument, which isn't really an argument, but likely a wall to shield his own insecurities. I think in his mind it makes him look smart. Now he'll probably run off to the mods about this post.

We can just look to last night and see how a team that plays bad one night does not mean you will play bad the next game. Saturday UL got killed by Virginia at home then two days later came back and beat #2 UNC at home.

 

[Iudanapoint]

He answered your question, he just didn't give you the answer you wanted.

I thought it lacked substance, yes, but it had nothing to do with getting an answer I "wanted". Why are you unable to offer an opinion on the subject?

 

[Iudanapoint]

We can just look to last night and see how a team that plays bad one night does not mean you will play bad the next game. Saturday UL got killed by Virginia at home then two days later came back and beat #2 UNC at home.

So you don't think the current level of play of a team is an indicator of how they'll play going forward?

 

[IU Scott]

So you don't think the current level of play of a team is an indicator of how they'll play going forward?

No I don't, not saying we are going to win tonight but saying how we played last game has nothing to do with this game.

 

[bsmitty08]

Huge difference in away and home for teams. We typically struggle on the road and towards the end of the season.

 

[blockm2]

Did you get bored discussing basketball with the other five posters on the UM Rivals site?

It isn't surprising you believe that. You are a Michigan fan, one of those who believe Beilein is a better coach than Izzo.

huh? Michigan's hoops discussion is in the premium message board, not the free board. Sorry. As for Izzo vs Beilein they are certainly different types of coaches. I prefer Beilein's Xs and Os, but Izzo has been a better recruiter.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

We can just look to last night and see how a team that plays bad one night does not mean you will play bad the next game. Saturday UL got killed by Virginia at home then two days later came back and beat #2 UNC at home.

No, and no one is saying you can do that. It's an indicator that the late season flame out is starting. We'll look at Pitino's history and we'll look at Crean's history. Let me know what conclusion you come up with.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

He answered your question, he just didn't give you the answer you wanted.

Dude, seriously, you have to stop replying to him. I don't care if he replies to you or not. Just because the monkey is on your back doesn't mean you have to feed it. Just watch him futilely try to pull you into a rat hole and smile.