This guy explains how to approach the issues underlying mass murders.

[Sope Creek]

You get worse and worse every time your leftist extremism is challenged. It's true Sope. Someone better than you will have to protect you if it ever comes to that. I hope it doesn't.

You'd like to think you're one of the good guys, a guy who can take care of others . . .

. . . and with that self-concept you think you're entitled to insist on exacting a price for it. You want to remind us every chance you get that there's "someone out there with a gun who takes care" of us. You want special status for your years ago "service" as a police officer. Well, you've worn that card out, Iron . . . whatever measure of service you provided so long ago has been more than rewarded and besmirched on a personal level in your lobbying "career". As far as I'm concerned your insistence on special status for that service is now just another reason for contempt for you.

Fact is, you're nothing but hate wrapped up in a suit hiding behind a business card. Your only intent is the pursuit of power for the sake of power.

You're a Nazi, Iron, in all but name. If you were in Iran you'd be a wannabe ayatollah. In Iraq 12 years ago your face might have been on one of the cards handed out in a deck to US troops, as one of Saddam's butt boy sycophants. If you were in Iraq today you'd be flying a black flag . . . .

You've never remotely challenged my political beliefs, leftist, rightist, centrist or otherwise. You're so full of hate you can't tell the difference. That hate makes you so stupid that you don't even know what my politics are.

None of what I'm writing to you about right now is about politics, Iron. It's about you. You're completely bereft of value, and it's not because of any political views you have. It's because you're you.

I wish you a good day, sir.

 

[Buzz123a]

No argument intended

Just establishing cred which you ignorantly denied.

Your cred is as a litigator, CoH, not as a thinker. Those aren't anything like the same, and since you generally substitute a worldview and pride in your professional ability for actual research and knowledge, you're only good at one of them, not to be taken seriously when you try your hand at the other.

 

[Buzz123a]

Did I say I espouse this from the pulpit? No. But if some of my people had concealed weapons would I worry at all? No. Let me ask you a question. Why is it ok for cops to have guns? Think about it? Isn't it because they are good people who protect us? How is it any different for good people to have concealed weapons to protect themselves and those they love? You act like it's the gun that is evil. No, a gun is amoral. It depends on who is using it.

Read it and weep, oh clueless one. Or read it and learn.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/20...hooting_could_australia_s_laws_provide_a.html

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Your cred is as a litigator, CoH, not as a thinker. Those aren't anything like the same, and since you generally substitute a worldview and pride in your professional ability for actual research and knowledge, you're only good at one of them, not to be taken seriously when you try your hand at the other.

I'll take that as a compliment

One's world view is way overrated anyway. I've made impacts in important areas that are definitely the result of hard work, knowledge, research and even thinking.

 

[Buzz123a]

I'll take that as a compliment

One's world view is way overrated anyway. I've made impacts in important areas that are definitely the result of hard work, knowledge, research and even thinking.

I'll agree with one point: those who operate off a worldview are doing it wrong. As for your knowledge and thinking, you forget I know you.

 

[RBB89]

You get worse and worse every time your leftist extremism is challenged. It's true Sope. Someone better than you will have to protect you if it ever comes to that. I hope it doesn't.

You've got a bit of a John Wayne complex thing going on.

 

[Buzz123a]

I do hope, for your sake, that you never have to experience the necessity to defend yourself or your family from serious threat of harm while the police are on the way.

The odds that any one of us will ever have to do that are way lower than the odds that we'll be killed by falling in our bathtubs, dude. Why so much concern about something so unlikely to happen?

 

[ARMZP]

You'd like to think you're one of the good guys, a guy who can take care of others . . .

. . . and with that self-concept you think you're entitled to insist on exacting a price for it. You want to remind us every chance you get that there's "someone out there with a gun who takes care" of us. You want special status for your years ago "service" as a police officer. Well, you've worn that card out, Iron . . . whatever measure of service you provided so long ago has been more than rewarded and besmirched on a personal level in your lobbying "career". As far as I'm concerned your insistence on special status for that service is now just another reason for contempt for you.

Fact is, you're nothing but hate wrapped up in a suit hiding behind a business card. Your only intent is the pursuit of power for the sake of power.

You're a Nazi, Iron, in all but name. If you were in Iran you'd be a wannabe ayatollah. In Iraq 12 years ago your face might have been on one of the cards handed out in a deck to US troops, as one of Saddam's butt boy sycophants. If you were in Iraq today you'd be flying a black flag . . . .

You've never remotely challenged my political beliefs, leftist, rightist, centrist or otherwise. You're so full of hate you can't tell the difference. That hate makes you so stupid that you don't even know what my politics are.

None of what I'm writing to you about right now is about politics, Iron. It's about you. You're completely bereft of value, and it's not because of any political views you have. It's because you're you.

I wish you a good day, sir.[/QUOTE
STEVE...YOU'RE BETTER THAN THIS MAN. I have met you, broken bread with you, and posted with you a long time. This wasn't you finest hour man.

 

[DrHoops]

Military base attacks massacre and attack on the Dallas Police station. That's all that needs to be said about everyone being armed. It's THE dumbest idea in the world. Link.

This "having everyone armed stuff" is complete nonsense.http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...litary-Installations-in-the-US-223933651.html

 

[DrHoops]

The problem there is, the list of mass shootings actually stopped by private citizens carrying concealed weapons (and I speak as someone who has a CCP) is pretty ****ing short, while the list of concealed carriers who made no difference or actually made things worse isn't. Wayne LaPierre to the contrary notwithstanding, all the real-world analysis available to someone who wants to know the actual truth supports the position that the answer to bad guys with guns isn't more good guys with guns; its a more rational scheme for controlling who gets guns. If you don't know that you don't know enough to be weighing in on this issue.

And George, I see you're still assiduously avoiding the fact-based community.

Excellent post, Buzz. I know you and I have had our run ins, but I'm happy to see you back! I was worried about you, believe it or not.

 

[DrHoops]

In the 1800's men took guns to church. And there weren't mass shootings. If those precious folks would have had guns on their person and concealed then the damage this maniac did would have been lessened. It's always easier to blame the gun instead of the person isn't it?

Nonsense.

 

[Buzz123a]

Excellent post, Buzz. I know you and I have had our run ins, but I'm happy to see you back! I was worried about you, believe it or not.

Runins are part of the fun, Doc, maybe all of the fun. Good to hear from you.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Running are part of the fun, Doc, maybe all of the fun. Good to hear from you.

I've been avoiding this shitshow, but I'll just jump to also welcome you back. Nice to see you here.

 

[Buzz123a]

I've been avoiding this shitshow, but I'll just jump to also welcome you back. Nice to see you here.

Thanks, but since life its ownself is a shitshow, why avoid this one?

 

[Rockfish1]

Thanks, but since life its ownself is a shitshow, why avoid this one?

The last time the Water Cooler wasn't a shit show, you moderated it. I'm happy you're back, I'm sorry to hear you don't have your best health, and I'm sorry that this board has become such a shit show. Every one of your posts would make it a better place.

 

[Buzz123a]

The last time the Water Cooler wasn't a shit show, you moderated it. I'm happy you're back, I'm sorry to hear you don't have your best health, and I'm sorry that this board has become such a shit show. Every one of your posts would make it a better place.

Well, I'll moderate it again if there's a groundswell of demand, but it'll go back to what it was; a happy-sappy group of 8 or 10 talking over virtual beers. Might not be much demand for that.

Alternatively, I'll try to participate on a more regular basis, if there's any demand at all for that; like most lawyers I find the sound of my own verbiage the sweetest sound of all

 

[VanPastorMan]

So you're admitting to being a hypocrite? You admit to having a different standard for what you preach and the way you'd behave?

Either you live your faith fully, Van, or you have absolutely no business being a pastor. We see a lot more evidence of the latter here than the former.

Sope, perhaps I didn't explain it right. The issue of having guns in the church has not come up. Therefore this is whey I have not addressed it from the pulpit. I do suppose that if we had guns then I might not over my allotted time as often as i do.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Military base attacks massacre and attack on the Dallas Police station. That's all that needs to be said about everyone being armed. It's THE dumbest idea in the world. Link.

This "having everyone armed stuff" is complete nonsense.http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...litary-Installations-in-the-US-223933651.html

Shootings on US military bases don't prove what you think it proves. Except for the MPs, gate guards and those on the firing range(s) US military bases are essentially gun free zones. If for some reason you have a weapon off the range (i.e. field training) the weapon will not be loaded with live, lethal rounds). On ships we'll have armed watchstanders on the Quarterback and usually one armed roving security watch. In the one example I saw in your link about a shipboard shooting the shooter was stopped by an armed watchstander. That means an ordinary Sailor who is by no means a frontline combat troop, but is at least minimally qualified for small arms. That hardly supports the nonsensical assertion that good guys with weapons make the situation worse when dealing with bad guys with weapons.

In 100 pct of the shooter cases on US bases in Afghanistan and Iraq the bad guys with guns have been stopped by the good guys with guns. We're all armed there.

 

[DrHoops]

Shootings on US military bases don't prove what you think it proves. Except for the MPs, gate guards and those on the firing range(s) US military bases are essentially gun free zones. If for some reason you have a weapon off the range (i.e. field training) the weapon will not be loaded with live, lethal rounds). On ships we'll have armed watchstanders on the Quarterback and usually one armed roving security watch. In the one example I saw in your link about a shipboard shooting the shooter was stopped by an armed watchstander. That means an ordinary Sailor who is by no means a frontline combat troop, but is at least minimally qualified for small arms. That hardly supports the nonsensical assertion that good guys with weapons make the situation worse when dealing with bad guys with weapons.

In 100 pct of the shooter cases on US bases in Afghanistan and Iraq the bad guys with guns have been stopped by the good guys with guns. We're all armed there.

Um....those are wars, Aloha.

 

[Buzz123a]

Shootings on US military bases don't prove what you think it proves. Except for the MPs, gate guards and those on the firing range(s) US military bases are essentially gun free zones. If for some reason you have a weapon off the range (i.e. field training) the weapon will not be loaded with live, lethal rounds). On ships we'll have armed watchstanders on the Quarterback and usually one armed roving security watch. In the one example I saw in your link about a shipboard shooting the shooter was stopped by an armed watchstander. That means an ordinary Sailor who is by no means a frontline combat troop, but is at least minimally qualified for small arms. That hardly supports the nonsensical assertion that good guys with weapons make the situation worse when dealing with bad guys with weapons.

In 100 pct of the shooter cases on US bases in Afghanistan and Iraq the bad guys with guns have been stopped by the good guys with guns. We're all armed there.

Its not nonsensical, AH, as you'd know if you did any research; the literature is just chock-full of armed private citizens who made situations they didn't understand worse rather than better, or at least tried. By contrast, the cases in which such people succeeded in preventing or minimizing the death toll inflicted by folks like James Holmes are in real short supply, even though we have more guns than people in this benighted country.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Its not nonsensical, AH, as you'd know if you did any research; the literature is just chock-full of armed private citizens who made situations they didn't understand worse rather than better, or at least tried. By contrast, the cases in which such people succeeded in preventing or minimizing the death toll inflicted by folks like James Holmes are in real short supply, even though we have more guns than people in this benighted country.

Jumping right in with the opening assertion that the person you're talking to is ignorant - the new more bitter, condescending and sanctimonious Buzz certainly fits right in here. The point I was making is that claiming shootings on US military bases in the U.S. supports the idea that good people with guns can't stop bad people with guns is ignorant. Bases in the U.S. are essentially gun free zones you're more likely to encounter a citizen carrying a loaded weapon in Chicago than on a military base outside the gate, the ranges and a few sensitive areas.

I can hardly stand this place any longer and the new Buzz isn't making it the slightest bit better. Nearly everyone here has become an intolerant disrespectful asshole. You're fitting in well.

 

[Buzz123a]

Jumping right in with the opening assertion that the person you're talking to is ignorant - the new more bitter, condescending and sanctimonious Buzz certainly fits right in here. The point I was making is that claiming shootings on US military bases in the U.S. supports the idea that good people with guns can't stop bad people with guns is ignorant. Bases in the U.S. are essentially gun free zones you're more likely to encounter a citizen carrying a loaded weapon in Chicago than on a military base outside the gate, the ranges and a few sensitive areas.

I can hardly stand this place any longer and the new Buzz isn't making it the slightest bit better. Nearly everyone here has become an intolerant disrespectful asshole. You're fitting in well.

You are ignorant, Aloha, and you have been as long as I've known you. You're a classic example of someone who knows very little but thinks his worldview is an adequate substitute for actual knowledge, and that his personal experience constitutes a reasonable sample of whatever he wishes to talk about. Talking in any positive way about the possibility that good guys with guns is the answer to bad guys with guns is an example of that; there's so much actual evidence that its a crock of shit that no rational person takes it seriously.

As for gun-free zones, I believe your own post noted at least 2 or 3 exceptions to the gun-free nature of US military bases, and I'm fairly sure you don't have any idea whether there are more armed citizens in Chicago, Fort Hood or Walla Walla, but think you probably do.

There's something deliciously ironic about complaining re the manners of others by characterizing those with whom you disagree as " intolerant disrespectful assholes." Thanks for the giggle.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

You are ignorant, Aloha, and you have been as long as I've known you. You're a classic example of someone who knows very little but thinks his worldview is an adequate substitute for actual knowledge, and that his personal experience constitutes a reasonable sample of whatever he wishes to talk about. Talking in any positive way about the possibility that good guys with guns is the answer to bad guys with guns is an example of that; there's so much actual evidence that its a crock of shit that no rational person takes it seriously.

As for gun-free zones, I believe your own post noted at least 2 or 3 exceptions to the gun-free nature of US military bases, and I'm fairly sure you don't have any idea whether there are more armed citizens in Chicago, Fort Hood or Walla Walla, but think you probably do.

There's something deliciously ironic about complaining re the manners of others by characterizing those with whom you disagree as " intolerant disrespectful assholes." Thanks for the giggle.

Wow. You're a jackass that thinks he knows far more than he does. For example, you apparently know squat about military bases. If you think people are generally armed on a base you're ignorant. Except for controlled instances, people are REQUIRED to be unarmed on a military base in the U.S. So yes you're more likely to run into an armed person in Chicago than on a military base (gate guards and MPs are like civilian world police).

This place is teeming with intolerant, disrespectful assholes in recent times. You increased the number by one.

You've been bitter towards me since you lost, and welched, the Davis bet. You hate losing.

 

[Buzz123a]

Wow. You're a jackass that thinks he knows far more than he does. For example, you apparently know squat about military bases. If you think people are generally armed on a base you're ignorant. Except for controlled instances, people are REQUIRED to be unarmed on a military base in the U.S. So yes you're more likely to run into an armed person in Chicago than on a military base (gate guards and MPs are like civilian world police).

This place is teeming with intolerant, disrespectful assholes in recent times. You increased the number by one.

You've been bitter towards me since you lost, and welched, the Davis bet. You hate losing.

I'm not bitter towards you, A; I'm contemptuous towards you. This post is why: I didn't come anywhere close to asserting that people are generally armed on military bases, and since you've demonstrated here before that you're sort of marginally literate I know you know that. You are, however, a shameless liar, and always have been, so I'm not surprised to see this approach from you.

I probably am a jackass; lord knows I work at it hard enough. You are as well, we all are these days. But I don't think I know more than I do; I just actually know a few things, by virtue of having put in the effort to learn them. Like most of our boys in blue that's something you don't generally bother with, which is one of the reasons you keep losing wars.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I'm not bitter towards you, A; I'm contemptuous towards you. This post is why: I didn't come anywhere close to asserting that people are generally armed on military bases, and since you've demonstrated here before that you're sort of marginally literate I know you know that. You are, however, a shameless liar, and always have been, so I'm not surprised to see this approach from you.

I probably am a jackass; lord knows I work at it hard enough. You are as well, we all are these days. But I don't think I know more than I do; I just actually know a few things, by virtue of having put in the effort to learn them. Like most of our boys in blue that's something you don't generally bother with, which is one of the reasons you keep losing wars.

Oh, I'm not lying and I've never been a liar. You're a pompous ass with an incredibly inflated opinion of yourself - and a welcher. All fact, not opinion.

You also sucked as a moderator. You turned it into the Buzz and Rockfish Show and it wasn't a hit.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I probably am a jackass; lord knows I work at it hard enough. You are as well, we all are these days. But I don't think I know more than I do; I just actually know a few things, by virtue of having put in the effort to learn them. Like most of our boys in blue that's something you don't generally bother with, which is one of the reasons you keep losing wars.

What's this "boys in blue" thing? I'm not a cop.

 

[DrHoops]

Jumping right in with the opening assertion that the person you're talking to is ignorant - the new more bitter, condescending and sanctimonious Buzz certainly fits right in here. The point I was making is that claiming shootings on US military bases in the U.S. supports the idea that good people with guns can't stop bad people with guns is ignorant. Bases in the U.S. are essentially gun free zones you're more likely to encounter a citizen carrying a loaded weapon in Chicago than on a military base outside the gate, the ranges and a few sensitive areas.

I can hardly stand this place any longer and the new Buzz isn't making it the slightest bit better. Nearly everyone here has become an intolerant disrespectful asshole. You're fitting in well.

If everyone being armed is such a great idea, why aren't soldiers/sailors/airmen armed at military bases? They're better trained in using weapons than just about everyone else...why do they need a base to be a "gun free zone". The military must have some reason for that, no? Also, aren't ARMED MILITARY GUARDS enough? If they're not able to stop a lone wolf shooter, is Joe Sixpack at a movie theater going to do it? Very doubtful.

It seems you're making a great point for the "anti-gun" crowd.

 

[Buzz123a]

Oh, I'm not lying and I've never been a liar. You're a pompous ass with an incredibly inflated opinion of yourself - and a welcher. All fact, not opinion.

You also sucked as a moderator. You turned it into the Buzz and Rockfish Show and it wasn't a hit.

I'm pretty sure you got my point. Won any wars lately?

 

[zeke4ahs]

If everyone being armed is such a great idea, why aren't soldiers/sailors/airmen armed at military bases? They're better trained in using weapons than just about everyone else...why do they need a base to be a "gun free zone". The military must have some reason for that, no? Also, aren't ARMED MILITARY GUARDS enough? If they're not able to stop a lone wolf shooter, is Joe Sixpack at a movie theater going to do it? Very doubtful.

It seems you're making a great point for the "anti-gun" crowd.

I actually thought American Sniper was a great movie for gun control, although the Fox News gang would have hated that interpretation. Here is a guy that grew up around guns. He was one of the greatest shots in the world. He lived through multiple tours of duty in one of the most dangerous spots in the world. And how is he killed? By a crazy with a gun. Greatest expert in the world with a gun, he was armed, and yet...he's killed by a gun. And all you yahoos out there with no training are going to prevent a mass murder? Right....

 

[NPT]

The last time the Water Cooler wasn't a shit show, you moderated it. I'm happy you're back, I'm sorry to hear you don't have your best health, and I'm sorry that this board has become such a shit show. Every one of your posts would make it a better place.

The part I don't understand about this is if you think it's so bad why even visit? There used to be places (don't know if there still is) that you could create your own forum for free. Why not do that and then just invite the people you want?

 

[Rockfish1]

The part I don't understand about this is if you think it's so bad why even visit? There used to be places (don't know if there still is) that you could create your own forum for free. Why not do that and then just invite the people you want?

Apparently I'm just not very bright. But maybe I feel like I've invested a substantial amount of time and energy in this place, and I'm stubbornly unwilling to cede it to lazy, partisan morons who devote no effort at all.

 

[NPT]

Apparently I'm just not very bright. But maybe I feel like I've invested a substantial amount of time and energy in this place, and I'm stubbornly unwilling to cede it to lazy, partisan morons who devote no effort at all.

I think you look at this place differently from the way I look at it (not saying you are wrong). To me it's just entertainment and I have learned a lot of stuff along the way.