Quite a pathetic exploitation by another religious figure

[mjvcaj]

Not hard to see why Americans are becoming increasingly less religious (I know, most religious people would not act in this manner and are sincere). But this guy is one of many to pull this crap.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/televan...r-scrutiny-asking-for-65-million-private-jet/

He's a pastor named Creflo Dollar who preaches the prosperity gospel: the more you give, the more you shall receive.

But the finances of the televangelist's 30,000-member church, World Changers Church International in College Park, Georgia, are under close scrutiny after Dollar asked his followers to buy him a $65 million private jet.

Dollar's sermons pack his 8,500-seat mega-church, and like any house of worship, the church is non-profit and tax-exempt, reports CBS News correspondent Mark Strassmann.

His ministry has prospered with satellite churches in at least a dozen states and hundreds of thousands of online followers. Dollar owns a multi-million dollar mansion and condo.

In March, his website asked the faithful to help buy him something else -- a $65 million Gulfstream G-650 jet -- the top of the line in luxury air travel.

One church member, Mary Jones, plans on answering the pastor's call even though she rides a bus 20 miles every Sunday to Dollar's church.

"We support our pastor. That's what we're here for. The work that he's doing, where the Lord has him traveling, he doesn't need a cheap airplane. He needs the best," Jones said.

But Dollar later took down the online request after it was criticized.

Former member Shamora Barnard was disgusted. She said Dollar's prosperity gospel is all "about him."

• Daughter of Creflo Dollar says alleged abuse 'was not the first time' during 911 call

This isn't the first time Dollar's church has been under scrutiny. In 2007, the Senate Finance Committee investigated Dollar and five other televangelists for possible tax abuse, including Kenneth Copeland, whose ministry once owned nine planes and its own airport.

Investigators labeled Dollar the "least cooperative"

But in 2011, the Senate panel abandoned its investigation. Critics claimed it happened due to pressure from church groups.

Dollar declined CBS News' request for an interview, but a representative for the church sent a statement that read in part, "...all of the ministry's revenues go to 'charity' and/or ministry, with the exception of the salaries and benefits for some 400 employees ministry-wide."

Dollar also responded to his critics during a sermon.

"If I want to believe God for a $65 million plane, you cannot stop me. You can't stop me from dreaming, I'm going to dream until Jesus comes," Dollar said.

"In Creflo's church, there is no accountability. He runs it like a fiefdom," said Ole Anthony, president of the Trinity Foundation in Texas, a church fundraising watchdog group.

"The chairman of the board of Texas Instruments or AT&T can have a whole fleet of jets, but they're not begging for money from people and getting a tax write-off in order for them to establish such a lifestyle," Anthony added.

Dollar already has a private jet, but it's 30 years old and currently out of service.

Despite removing the fundraising campaign from his website, the pastor reportedly still plans to buy a new aircraft with donations.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

Not hard to see why Americans are becoming increasingly less religious (I know, most religious people would not act in this manner and are sincere). But this guy is one of many to pull this crap.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/televan...r-scrutiny-asking-for-65-million-private-jet/

He's a pastor named Creflo Dollar who preaches the prosperity gospel: the more you give, the more you shall receive.

But the finances of the televangelist's 30,000-member church, World Changers Church International in College Park, Georgia, are under close scrutiny after Dollar asked his followers to buy him a $65 million private jet.

Dollar's sermons pack his 8,500-seat mega-church, and like any house of worship, the church is non-profit and tax-exempt, reports CBS News correspondent Mark Strassmann.

His ministry has prospered with satellite churches in at least a dozen states and hundreds of thousands of online followers. Dollar owns a multi-million dollar mansion and condo.

In March, his website asked the faithful to help buy him something else -- a $65 million Gulfstream G-650 jet -- the top of the line in luxury air travel.

One church member, Mary Jones, plans on answering the pastor's call even though she rides a bus 20 miles every Sunday to Dollar's church.

"We support our pastor. That's what we're here for. The work that he's doing, where the Lord has him traveling, he doesn't need a cheap airplane. He needs the best," Jones said.

But Dollar later took down the online request after it was criticized.

Former member Shamora Barnard was disgusted. She said Dollar's prosperity gospel is all "about him."

• Daughter of Creflo Dollar says alleged abuse 'was not the first time' during 911 call

This isn't the first time Dollar's church has been under scrutiny. In 2007, the Senate Finance Committee investigated Dollar and five other televangelists for possible tax abuse, including Kenneth Copeland, whose ministry once owned nine planes and its own airport.

Investigators labeled Dollar the "least cooperative"

But in 2011, the Senate panel abandoned its investigation. Critics claimed it happened due to pressure from church groups.

Dollar declined CBS News' request for an interview, but a representative for the church sent a statement that read in part, "...all of the ministry's revenues go to 'charity' and/or ministry, with the exception of the salaries and benefits for some 400 employees ministry-wide."

Dollar also responded to his critics during a sermon.

"If I want to believe God for a $65 million plane, you cannot stop me. You can't stop me from dreaming, I'm going to dream until Jesus comes," Dollar said.

"In Creflo's church, there is no accountability. He runs it like a fiefdom," said Ole Anthony, president of the Trinity Foundation in Texas, a church fundraising watchdog group.

"The chairman of the board of Texas Instruments or AT&T can have a whole fleet of jets, but they're not begging for money from people and getting a tax write-off in order for them to establish such a lifestyle," Anthony added.

Dollar already has a private jet, but it's 30 years old and currently out of service.

Despite removing the fundraising campaign from his website, the pastor reportedly still plans to buy a new aircraft with donations.

There is a lot of money to be made in this world if you have the ability to say anything and not mind looking in the mirror everyday.

 

[DougS]

I simply don't understand how these clowns gain a following.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I simply don't understand how these clowns gain a following.

Easy. Every single member of that church - even the poor ones - is a selfish jerk. They've found a preacher who teaches them that Jesus is happy they are selfish. For the simple-minded, the prosperity gospel is attractive because it takes all the moral difficulty out of worship.

Never mind that it's about the worst bastardization of Jesus' message there ever has been.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

Easy. Every single member of that church - even the poor ones - is a selfish jerk. They've found a preacher who teaches them that Jesus is happy they are selfish. For the simple-minded, the prosperity gospel is attractive because it takes all the moral difficulty out of worship.

Never mind that it's about the worst bastardization of Jesus' message there ever has been.

You can see he same kind of talk from The 700 Club when they have their fundraisers. "Don't be greedy. It's so much better to give. Give to us and The Lord will give you so much more."

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

You can see he same kind of talk from The 700 Club when they have their fundraisers. "Don't be greedy. It's so much better to give. Give to us and The Lord will give you so much more."

Yeah, but Pat isn't talking about Jesus making them rich. He's talking about Jesus giving them spiritual rewards.

We used to play a drinking game in college. We'd watch the 700 club, and take a drink every time Pat said a number of things we had on a list. "Jesus" was one, of course. I can't remember the others. I think any time he blamed a natural disaster one someone, we had to shotgun a whole beer or something.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Easy. Every single member of that church - even the poor ones - is a selfish jerk. They've found a preacher who teaches them that Jesus is happy they are selfish. For the simple-minded, the prosperity gospel is attractive because it takes all the moral difficulty out of worship.

Never mind that it's about the worst bastardization of Jesus' message there ever has been.

I've talked from time to time about the United States government acting like a civil religion.

For several generations the public objective and message of government tracked the beatitudes in the Sermon on the Mount. Those ideas are not exclusively Christian. However, as Jesus said about the Lord, our governmental purpose for some time has been to address and fulfill these basic human needs.

For many decades, we gladly accepted this mission; however also being ever mindful of Kennedy's admonishment that we "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." This recognizes that we have an obligation to serve God/Government.

That was then, this is now.

American society is unmistakably drifting towards the prosperity gospel. Are we, as you said, "selfish jerks"? I'm not willing to go there yet. But I think the trend in that direction is clear.

 

[toastedbread]

Not hard to see why Americans are becoming increasingly less religious (I know, most religious people would not act in this manner and are sincere). But this guy is one of many to pull this crap.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/televan...r-scrutiny-asking-for-65-million-private-jet/

He's a pastor named Creflo Dollar who preaches the prosperity gospel: the more you give, the more you shall receive.

But the finances of the televangelist's 30,000-member church, World Changers Church International in College Park, Georgia, are under close scrutiny after Dollar asked his followers to buy him a $65 million private jet.

Dollar's sermons pack his 8,500-seat mega-church, and like any house of worship, the church is non-profit and tax-exempt, reports CBS News correspondent Mark Strassmann.

His ministry has prospered with satellite churches in at least a dozen states and hundreds of thousands of online followers. Dollar owns a multi-million dollar mansion and condo.

In March, his website asked the faithful to help buy him something else -- a $65 million Gulfstream G-650 jet -- the top of the line in luxury air travel.

One church member, Mary Jones, plans on answering the pastor's call even though she rides a bus 20 miles every Sunday to Dollar's church.

"We support our pastor. That's what we're here for. The work that he's doing, where the Lord has him traveling, he doesn't need a cheap airplane. He needs the best," Jones said.

But Dollar later took down the online request after it was criticized.

Former member Shamora Barnard was disgusted. She said Dollar's prosperity gospel is all "about him."

• Daughter of Creflo Dollar says alleged abuse 'was not the first time' during 911 call

This isn't the first time Dollar's church has been under scrutiny. In 2007, the Senate Finance Committee investigated Dollar and five other televangelists for possible tax abuse, including Kenneth Copeland, whose ministry once owned nine planes and its own airport.

Investigators labeled Dollar the "least cooperative"

But in 2011, the Senate panel abandoned its investigation. Critics claimed it happened due to pressure from church groups.

Dollar declined CBS News' request for an interview, but a representative for the church sent a statement that read in part, "...all of the ministry's revenues go to 'charity' and/or ministry, with the exception of the salaries and benefits for some 400 employees ministry-wide."

Dollar also responded to his critics during a sermon.

"If I want to believe God for a $65 million plane, you cannot stop me. You can't stop me from dreaming, I'm going to dream until Jesus comes," Dollar said.

"In Creflo's church, there is no accountability. He runs it like a fiefdom," said Ole Anthony, president of the Trinity Foundation in Texas, a church fundraising watchdog group.

"The chairman of the board of Texas Instruments or AT&T can have a whole fleet of jets, but they're not begging for money from people and getting a tax write-off in order for them to establish such a lifestyle," Anthony added.

Dollar already has a private jet, but it's 30 years old and currently out of service.

Despite removing the fundraising campaign from his website, the pastor reportedly still plans to buy a new aircraft with donations.

Did you see te story on the Duggars today? Their oldest son is a pedophile who was protected by police and his parents. Both parents should be arrested and charged. Meanwhile this creep now has 3 children of his own.

 

[mjvcaj]

I've talked from time to time about the United States government acting like a civil religion.

For several generations the public objective and message of government tracked the beatitudes in the Sermon on the Mount. Those ideas are not exclusively Christian. However, as Jesus said about the Lord, our governmental purpose for some time has been to address and fulfill these basic human needs.

For many decades, we gladly accepted this mission; however also being ever mindful of Kennedy's admonishment that we "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." This recognizes that we have an obligation to serve God/Government.

That was then, this is now.

American society is unmistakably drifting towards the prosperity gospel. Are we, as you said, "selfish jerks"? I'm not willing to go there yet. But I think the trend in that direction is clear.

The way I see it, poor actions/decisions on the part of some leaders has caused skepticism on the part of followers and outsiders.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Reminds me of the Democrats' approach to government.

 

[Ladoga]

Reminds me of the Democrats' approach to government.

Well put but to add -- malpracticing human lead churches want your money but won't jail you if you don't pay. The government, under Democrat control, will lock you up if you refuse to pay for their vote buying schemes.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

Well put but to add -- malpracticing human lead churches want your money but won't jail you if you don't pay. The government, under Democrat control, will lock you up if you refuse to pay for their vote buying schemes.

Alex Jones called. He wants his tinfoil hat back.

 

[Rockfish1]

Did you see te story on the Duggars today? Their oldest son is a pedophile who was protected by police and his parents. Both parents should be arrested and charged. Meanwhile this creep now has 3 children of his own.

I had never heard of these people. But the salacious stories remind me why I ignore "reality" TV.

 

[Rockfish1]

Reminds me of the Democrats' approach to government.

Reminds me that you are not a political scientist.

 

[Rockfish1]

Easy. Every single member of that church - even the poor ones - is a selfish jerk. They've found a preacher who teaches them that Jesus is happy they are selfish. For the simple-minded, the prosperity gospel is attractive because it takes all the moral difficulty out of worship.

Never mind that it's about the worst bastardization of Jesus' message there ever has been.

What he said.

 

[Rockfish1]

Well put but to add -- malpracticing human lead churches want your money but won't jail you if you don't pay. The government, under Democrat control, will lock you up if you refuse to pay for their vote buying schemes.

Perhaps Greenirontree Bossier Street Ladoga Works is no ordinary idiot. Just like Ronald Reagan.

 

[Ladoga]

Perhaps Greenirontree Bossier Street Ladoga Works is no ordinary idiot. Just like Ronald Reagan.

Lay off the booze.

 

[Rockfish1]

Lay off the booze.

At your best, you're a silly person. And you're seldom at your best. I'll continue to make a fool of you, so long as you continue to make a fool of yourself. Fool.

 

[VanPastorMan]

I simply don't understand how these clowns gain a following.

Doug, Paul's following comments show that not everybody who preaches does so with good motives.
Philippians 1:15 Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ even from envy and strife, but some also from good will;16 the latter do it out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel;17 the former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition, rather than from pure motives, thinking to cause me distress in my imprisonment.
Now you are asking why people would follow them. If a preacher preaches that you to can become rich then you are going to listen to this message because it's the message you want. Paul said this these words to Timothy which are appropriate.
4 and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths.2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires;

 

[mjvcaj]

Did you see te story on the Duggars today? Their oldest son is a pedophile who was protected by police and his parents. Both parents should be arrested and charged. Meanwhile this creep now has 3 children of his own.

I still don't know the details. Wasn't he under 18 himself? What did he do to these girlsand how old were they?

 

[VanPastorMan]

I still don't know the details. Wasn't he under 18 himself? What did he do to these girlsand how old were they?

I understand that this happened when he was 14. He fondled several of his sisters and some who was not related to him. If I have the details wrong I am open to being corrected because I got this from someone who read it and I did not actually read it.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

Doug, Paul's following comments show that not everybody who preaches does so with good motives.
Philippians 1:15 Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ even from envy and strife, but some also from good will;16 the latter do it out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel;17 the former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition, rather than from pure motives, thinking to cause me distress in my imprisonment.
Now you are asking why people would follow them. If a preacher preaches that you to can become rich then you are going to listen to this message because it's the message you want. Paul said this these words to Timothy which are appropriate.
4 and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths.2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires;

Wow, that last part sounds like Murdoch and his Fox News hosts/anchors.

 

[Ladoga]

The way I see it, poor actions/decisions on the part of some leaders has caused skepticism on the part of followers and outsiders.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/418931/put-not-your-faith-duggars-or-any-other-christian-david-French
Relatively short article decrying putting faith in humans or famous "Christians". That is misplaced faith. There is no Gospel According to ________________ - fill in a person's name.

 

[iubud]

Not hard to see why Americans are becoming increasingly less religious (I know, most religious people would not act in this manner and are sincere). But this guy is one of many to pull this crap.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/televan...r-scrutiny-asking-for-65-million-private-jet/

He's a pastor named Creflo Dollar who preaches the prosperity gospel: the more you give, the more you shall receive.

But the finances of the televangelist's 30,000-member church, World Changers Church International in College Park, Georgia, are under close scrutiny after Dollar asked his followers to buy him a $65 million private jet.

Dollar's sermons pack his 8,500-seat mega-church, and like any house of worship, the church is non-profit and tax-exempt, reports CBS News correspondent Mark Strassmann.

His ministry has prospered with satellite churches in at least a dozen states and hundreds of thousands of online followers. Dollar owns a multi-million dollar mansion and condo.

In March, his website asked the faithful to help buy him something else -- a $65 million Gulfstream G-650 jet -- the top of the line in luxury air travel.

One church member, Mary Jones, plans on answering the pastor's call even though she rides a bus 20 miles every Sunday to Dollar's church.

"We support our pastor. That's what we're here for. The work that he's doing, where the Lord has him traveling, he doesn't need a cheap airplane. He needs the best," Jones said.

But Dollar later took down the online request after it was criticized.

Former member Shamora Barnard was disgusted. She said Dollar's prosperity gospel is all "about him."

• Daughter of Creflo Dollar says alleged abuse 'was not the first time' during 911 call

This isn't the first time Dollar's church has been under scrutiny. In 2007, the Senate Finance Committee investigated Dollar and five other televangelists for possible tax abuse, including Kenneth Copeland, whose ministry once owned nine planes and its own airport.

Investigators labeled Dollar the "least cooperative"

But in 2011, the Senate panel abandoned its investigation. Critics claimed it happened due to pressure from church groups.

Dollar declined CBS News' request for an interview, but a representative for the church sent a statement that read in part, "...all of the ministry's revenues go to 'charity' and/or ministry, with the exception of the salaries and benefits for some 400 employees ministry-wide."

Dollar also responded to his critics during a sermon.

"If I want to believe God for a $65 million plane, you cannot stop me. You can't stop me from dreaming, I'm going to dream until Jesus comes," Dollar said.

"In Creflo's church, there is no accountability. He runs it like a fiefdom," said Ole Anthony, president of the Trinity Foundation in Texas, a church fundraising watchdog group.

"The chairman of the board of Texas Instruments or AT&T can have a whole fleet of jets, but they're not begging for money from people and getting a tax write-off in order for them to establish such a lifestyle," Anthony added.

Dollar already has a private jet, but it's 30 years old and currently out of service.

Despite removing the fundraising campaign from his website, the pastor reportedly still plans to buy a new aircraft with donations.

In 1987, my wife and I visited friends that lived in Newport Beach, Ca. They were excited to take us to church with them in an industrial park in Torrington. The pastor of their church was Hal Lindsey, author of books including "The Late, Great, Planet Earth". I am open to hearing other views and opinions, so I was a little curious.

It took about 5 minutes for Lindsey to offend people from every established Christian religion. The rest of the sermon was to convince people that they needed to buy his latest book to get the full message that would save them from hell. He said it was imperative that people read his book because time was running out. He guaranteed to the congregation that Jesus was going to return in his lifetime. After biting my tongue and surviving the service, someone had placed notes on all the cars that read, "Don't be deceived by the preaching of a greedy man of GOD". I thought it was accurate. My friend was very upset.

My friend is an intelligent person that has degrees from UCLA in business and music production. He can quote verses from the Bible and explain their meaning and the context that they were written in. For some reason, he believed Hal Lindsey. He ignored all the marketing and salesmanship. He asked me what I thought. I told him I was bothered by his treatment of other religions and the claim that Jesus was returning in his lifetime. I told him that Jesus tells us that no man will be able to predict the day he will return. A guarantee makes me trust little about anything else he said.

I don't know why some can't see through people out to line their pockets from religion. I guess that is why I have stayed away from the large non-denomination churches with thousands of members. I give what I can to my church. I have always remembered what a pastor said to me years ago. As you are raising a family, the church can get by with smaller contributions. We would hope that you would remember the church as your income increases and your obligations are reduced. I knew I was in the right church.

 

[toastedbread]

I still don't know the details. Wasn't he under 18 himself? What did he do to these girlsand how old were they?

He was 17 or 18 and fondling 8, 12, 14 year old girls while they slept. And his parents knew about it. I'm sorry, but a 17 year old has enough judgement to know that's wrong. I guess when you have 20 kids there is a high likelihood 1 will turn out to be a pedo? The general pop percent of pedos has probably got tp be 3% or something?

 

[VanPastorMan]

He was 17 or 18 and fondling 8, 12, 14 year old girls while they slept. And his parents knew about it. I'm sorry, but a 17 year old has enough judgement to know that's wrong. I guess when you have 20 kids there is a high likelihood 1 will turn out to be a pedo? The general pop percent of pedos has probably got tp be 3% or something?

I thought he was 14 when he got caught, and then his parents took action.

 

[meridian]

I know, most religious people would not act in this manner and are sincere
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/televan...r-scrutiny-asking-for-65-million-private-jet/

Neither would most non-religious people.

 

[mjvcaj]

Neither would most non-religious people.

Clearly