one does not simply walk into Mordor

[Marvin the Martian]

How does one just walk across the DMZ? I can't fathom any reason someone would do that. I've heard the guides on those tours point out the line and urge people to stay back. Heck, I'd worry about them taking potshots anyway, it's been known to happen. They said they don't believe it to be a defection, and I can't imagine why anyone would defect to North Korea. But what else could it be.

 

[IU_Hickory]

he forgot where he parked his car.

 

[Cthulhu85]

It's sounds crazy. North Korea is such a strange place. The only Stalinist country still in existence. Technically we never ended the war with them. And I believe it is in their constitution that they must reunite the two Koreas. They would be scary if they had any real capabilities.

 

[Cthulhu85]

he forgot where he parked his car.

Please tell me this is a reference to the movie Eurotrip.

 

[Noodle]

This article explains it a bit (though it's not clear if he missed the flight "due to disciplinary reasons" or he was being flown home "due to disciplinary reasons" - seems likely that it was the latter):

Further reports now claim the crossing was deliberate.​

​

An official operating on the condition of anonymity told the Washington Post that "This was a deliberate decision on the part of the service member to cross."​

​

The soldier is claimed to have missed a flight home he was scheduled to attend due to disciplinary reasons.​

​

An official also told CBS News the alleged defector managed to join the border tour after somehow managing to return through airport security.​

​

A witness told the broadcaster that the man in question ran away from the tour laughing as he did so.​

North Korea detains US soldier who crossed border into country unauthorised

The United Nations Command said Kim Jong-un's tyrannical North Korean regime has detained a United States soldier, named as Travis King, who holds the rank of private second class in the US Army, for crossing the Military Demarcation Line from South Korea without permission

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[Noodle]

It's sounds crazy. North Korea is such a strange place. The only Stalinist country still in existence. Technically we never ended the war with them. And I believe it is in their constitution that they must reunite the two Koreas. They would be scary if they had any real capabilities.

Well, they do have real capabilities. It would not end well for them, but they could kill tens of thousands (if not hundred of thousands) of South Koreas if they chose to do so.

 

[IU_Hickory]

This article explains it a bit (though it's not clear if he missed the flight "due to disciplinary reasons" or he was being flown home "due to disciplinary reasons" - seems likely that it was the latter):

Further reports now claim the crossing was deliberate.​

​

An official operating on the condition of anonymity told the Washington Post that "This was a deliberate decision on the part of the service member to cross."​

​

The soldier is claimed to have missed a flight home he was scheduled to attend due to disciplinary reasons.​

​

An official also told CBS News the alleged defector managed to join the border tour after somehow managing to return through airport security.​

​

A witness told the broadcaster that the man in question ran away from the tour laughing as he did so.​

North Korea detains US soldier who crossed border into country unauthorised

The United Nations Command said Kim Jong-un's tyrannical North Korean regime has detained a United States soldier, named as Travis King, who holds the rank of private second class in the US Army, for crossing the Military Demarcation Line from South Korea without permission

www.mirror.co.uk

I have a feeling he won't be laughing for much longer.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

This article explains it a bit (though it's not clear if he missed the flight "due to disciplinary reasons" or he was being flown home "due to disciplinary reasons" - seems likely that it was the latter):

Further reports now claim the crossing was deliberate.​

​

An official operating on the condition of anonymity told the Washington Post that "This was a deliberate decision on the part of the service member to cross."​

​

The soldier is claimed to have missed a flight home he was scheduled to attend due to disciplinary reasons.​

​

An official also told CBS News the alleged defector managed to join the border tour after somehow managing to return through airport security.​

​

A witness told the broadcaster that the man in question ran away from the tour laughing as he did so.​

North Korea detains US soldier who crossed border into country unauthorised

The United Nations Command said Kim Jong-un's tyrannical North Korean regime has detained a United States soldier, named as Travis King, who holds the rank of private second class in the US Army, for crossing the Military Demarcation Line from South Korea without permission

www.mirror.co.uk

Wow, I can't believe anyone thinks North Korea is better than Leavenworth, or even better than a firing squad. Otto Warmbier should be a good motivation for anyone to stay out of there. Heck, I'd have to flip a coin in choosing between Mordor and North Korea (I'm not sure they aren't the same place).

 

[Noodle]

This article explains it a bit (though it's not clear if he missed the flight "due to disciplinary reasons" or he was being flown home "due to disciplinary reasons" - seems likely that it was the latter):

Further reports now claim the crossing was deliberate.​

​

An official operating on the condition of anonymity told the Washington Post that "This was a deliberate decision on the part of the service member to cross."​

​

The soldier is claimed to have missed a flight home he was scheduled to attend due to disciplinary reasons.​

​

An official also told CBS News the alleged defector managed to join the border tour after somehow managing to return through airport security.​

​

A witness told the broadcaster that the man in question ran away from the tour laughing as he did so.​

North Korea detains US soldier who crossed border into country unauthorised

The United Nations Command said Kim Jong-un's tyrannical North Korean regime has detained a United States soldier, named as Travis King, who holds the rank of private second class in the US Army, for crossing the Military Demarcation Line from South Korea without permission

www.mirror.co.uk

From the much better written Washington Post article:

The U.S. service member “willfully and without authorization crossed the Military Demarcation Line into the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea,” Army Col. Isaac Taylor, a spokesperson for U.S. forces in South Korea, said in a statement.​

​

"We believe he is currently in [North Korean] custody and are working with our KPA counterparts to resolve this incident,” Taylor said, referring to the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea and its armed forces.​

The American, whom officials did not identify by name, was visiting the Joint Security Area that separates North and South Korea while on an “orientation tour,” Taylor said.​

​

The soldier had been punished for misconduct while serving in South Korea and was being sent home to the United States, according to a U.S. official. But he did not get on his scheduled flight after U.S. military personnel took him to the airport, the official said, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the matter’s sensitivity.​

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/18/north-korea-us-national-dmz/

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Well, they do have real capabilities. It would not end well for them, but they could kill tens of thousands (if not hundred of thousands) of South Koreas if they chose to do so.

Yep, Seoul is within range of a whole lot of artillery. That doesn't even include the nukes we know can reach at least Japan, if not America. If they want to go out in a giant blaze of infamy, they sure can.

 

[outside shooter]

I have toured the DMZ. You get to walk into those "negotiation rooms" that are built right on the border and you can step over the line a few feet into North Korea for a photo op. There is a South Korean guard stationed on his side of the line to deal with you, if you were to choose to run for the north exit. You can see the North Korean guards patrolling in the distance. In that area it is a pretty open courtyard so it would be hard to easily get across without lots of people in both countries aware of it, immediately. Of course much of the DMZ is a heavily wooded area that, if you avoid 50s era land mines and the many surveillance cameras, you could probably make your way across, with some planning and guts.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

How does one just walk across the DMZ? I can't fathom any reason someone would do that. I've heard the guides on those tours point out the line and urge people to stay back. Heck, I'd worry about them taking potshots anyway, it's been known to happen. They said they don't believe it to be a defection, and I can't imagine why anyone would defect to North Korea. But what else could it be.

North Korea is an interesting test case, to me, for a lot of our thinking/policy/philosophy on international action. I know of no one in the West who supports them, unlike the former Soviet Union, or even Russia today.

What more would a government have to do to its people to give us good reason to go to war with them to eliminate the regime and free their people, if that is one reason for military action? Is that something that could even work in today's world? How heavily armed does the nation have to be to deter us from acting? When a nation becomes such a pariah, is it better or worse to isolate them economically from the industrialized world? What responsibility do NKorea's neighbors have to deal with all this?

 

[Marvin the Martian]

North Korea is an interesting test case, to me, for a lot of our thinking/policy/philosophy on international action. I know of no one in the West who supports them, unlike the former Soviet Union, or even Russia today.

What more would a government have to do to its people to give us good reason to go to war with them to eliminate the regime and free their people, if that is one reason for military action? Is that something that could even work in today's world? How heavily armed does the nation have to be to deter us from acting? When a nation becomes such a pariah, is it better or worse to isolate them economically from the industrialized world? What responsibility do NKorea's neighbors have to deal with all this?

Once they got the bomb, any military action went out the window. No one is going to take that risk. The advantage to acting crazy I guess. We might assume a sane leader wouldn't push the button. Even Hitler didn't release the vast chemical weapons he had available (except in the camps of course).

In the Korean War books I have read, Kim felt like an equal to Stalin and Mao. Of course, he wasn't close. So while I believe that China should be involved in pushing North Korea toward sanity, and they should, I don't think it would have much impact. Their leadership has been taught that he's the most important man in the world.

Someone this morning on tv was discussing how North Koreans are taught to hate the US in school, blaming us for starting the Korean War. I don't know how long it would take North Korea to become "normal" even if the regime fell today.

Even without the bomb, I don't know I'd risk the idea of war. Seoul is very vulnerable. Not as vulnerable as some reports have reported in the past, but losing tens of thousands is possible (assuming no nukes). That is just too much for the west to risk and certainly South Korea would never go for it.

Sadly, it appears economic sanctions are worthless. Those are porous at best as we know Russia is buying artillery shells from the North.

 

[Stuffshot]

How does one just walk across the DMZ? I can't fathom any reason someone would do that. I've heard the guides on those tours point out the line and urge people to stay back. Heck, I'd worry about them taking potshots anyway, it's been known to happen. They said they don't believe it to be a defection, and I can't imagine why anyone would defect to North Korea. But what else could it be.

Maybe Rudy Giuliani or Sydney Powell told him it was OK.

 

[Noodle]

Once they got the bomb, any military action went out the window. No one is going to take that risk. The advantage to acting crazy I guess. We might assume a sane leader wouldn't push the button. Even Hitler didn't release the vast chemical weapons he had available (except in the camps of course).

In the Korean War books I have read, Kim felt like an equal to Stalin and Mao. Of course, he wasn't close. So while I believe that China should be involved in pushing North Korea toward sanity, and they should, I don't think it would have much impact. Their leadership has been taught that he's the most important man in the world.

Someone this morning on tv was discussing how North Koreans are taught to hate the US in school, blaming us for starting the Korean War. I don't know how long it would take North Korea to become "normal" even if the regime fell today.

Even without the bomb, I don't know I'd risk the idea of war. Seoul is very vulnerable. Not as vulnerable as some reports have reported in the past, but losing tens of thousands is possible (assuming no nukes). That is just too much for the west to risk and certainly South Korea would never go for it.

Sadly, it appears economic sanctions are worthless. Those are porous at best as we know Russia is buying artillery shells from the North.

Was a military action without significant provocation by NK even a real possibility before they had nuclear weapons? Is there any precedent for unilateral military action against a country based solely (or primarily) on that country mistreating or killing its own citizens? (I cannot think of any, but may be overlooking something.) I just don't see the US or any other country taking real military action against NK in order to overturn the regime and free the North Korean people. The cost of South Korean lives (and likely those in other countries) is simply too great.

In the end, I continue to believe that China is the only real hope for a regime change in North Korea. But, that hope is rather small given that China seems to have little to gain from it and, as you said, China may not be able to do much.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Was a military action without significant provocation by NK even a real possibility before they had nuclear weapons? Is there any precedent for unilateral military action against a country based solely (or primarily) on that country mistreating or killing its own citizens? (I cannot think of any, but may be overlooking something.) I just don't see the US or any other country taking real military action against NK in order to overturn the regime and free the North Korean people. The cost of South Korean lives (and likely those in other countries) is simply too great.

In the end, I continue to believe that China is the only real hope for a regime change in North Korea. But, that hope is rather small given that China seems to have little to gain from it and, as you said, China may not be able to do much.

I cannot think of a time anyone has intervened to save a people. I think the world should have for Rwanda. Sadly the world let Rwanda and Cambodia happen, so I don't think there is any precedent for it. The US shouldn't shoulder the responsibility, and the UN hasn't the courage to do anything. Plus, it isn't like there is an actual UN army.

 

[larsIU]

Sadly the world let Rwanda and Cambodia happen

The British and the French should have been primary. their involvements sliced up those countries with little regard for ethnic or tribal divisions.

 

[Noodle]

I cannot think of a time anyone has intervened to save a people. I think the world should have for Rwanda. Sadly the world let Rwanda and Cambodia happen, so I don't think there is any precedent for it. The US shouldn't shoulder the responsibility, and the UN hasn't the courage to do anything. Plus, it isn't like there is an actual UN army.

You are 100% correct regarding Rwanda.

 

[BadWakeboarder]

Wow, I can't believe anyone thinks North Korea is better than Leavenworth, or even better than a firing squad. Otto Warmbier should be a good motivation for anyone to stay out of there. Heck, I'd have to flip a coin in choosing between Mordor and North Korea (I'm not sure they aren't the same place).

You give all soldiers too much credit. They are a cross-section of our society - and that means many are knuckle-dragging stupid.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

How does one just walk across the DMZ? I can't fathom any reason someone would do that. I've heard the guides on those tours point out the line and urge people to stay back. Heck, I'd worry about them taking potshots anyway, it's been known to happen. They said they don't believe it to be a defection, and I can't imagine why anyone would defect to North Korea. But what else could it be.

Should we even try to assist? Decisions have consequences. I wouldn't be in a hurry.

 

[T.M.P.]

How does one just walk across the DMZ? I can't fathom any reason someone would do that. I've heard the guides on those tours point out the line and urge people to stay back. Heck, I'd worry about them taking potshots anyway, it's been known to happen. They said they don't believe it to be a defection, and I can't imagine why anyone would defect to North Korea. But what else could it be.

Boromir was wrong. Frodo and Sam did in fact walk into Mordor ... before Frodo utterly failed in his assigned quest and gave in to the power.

Samwise was the true hero of the story.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

I cannot think of a time anyone has intervened to save a people. I think the world should have for Rwanda. Sadly the world let Rwanda and Cambodia happen, so I don't think there is any precedent for it. The US shouldn't shoulder the responsibility, and the UN hasn't the courage to do anything. Plus, it isn't like there is an actual UN army.

Does Bosnia qualify? Somalia?

NATO intervention in Bosnia and Herzegovina - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Boromir was wrong. Frodo and Sam did in fact walk into Mordor ... before Frodo utterly failed in his assigned quest and gave in to the power.

Samwise was the true hero of the story.

With an assist from Smeagol

 

[T.M.P.]

With an assist from Smeagol

True, but he had selfish intent ...

A spoiler fog? Everyone who is going to read it, has. Multiple times ...

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

True, but he had selfish intent ...

A spoiler fog? Everyone who is going to read it, has. Multiple times ...

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Boromir was wrong. Frodo and Sam did in fact walk into Mordor ... before Frodo utterly failed in his assigned quest and gave in to the power.

Samwise was the true hero of the story.

The Lannisters beheaded him for being wrong about that.