I fear that Cignetti…

[sparkeyreturns]

If we're counting on Fisher (at Middle Linebacker) to slow down a Big Ten running game we're in deep trouble...

If we can't find someone better at that position the Big Ten teams will average 250+ on the ground against us...

He makes a lot of tackles..., 7+ yards down the field... We need someone who can diagnose the play and stop the run at the line of scrimmage, not 3/4's of the way to a 1st down.

Agree. Maybe Fisher is amazing yet I don't see it at all.

 

[Hoosier Clarion]

He had to do something to reset the overall TEAM mindset/approach so in that sense bringing in the JMU guys seems to be a good move...

My only concern is that he may actually believe JMU was capable of playing a Big Ten schedule and still having a winning record last Fall... If he's deluded himself into believing that then we might be in for a long season... Confidence is a good thing to have... Hubris..., not so much...

Right now I believe our greatest weakness is at Linebacker, specifically MLB... If Cignetti truly believes he can win while playing his All Sunbelt guy from JMU at that position as the starter I fear he's in for a rude welcome to Big Ten Football...

I'm extremely disappointed that we haven't brought in at least one more LB from the Portal to go along with the guy from UMass...

Perhaps we still have a shot at Nigel Glover -

Ohio State linebacker enters transfer portal

.

www.on3.com

There might be a slim chance we could grow our own from one or two of these guys:

Reece Bellin - Football - Indiana University Athletics

Reece Bellin (27) DB - 2023 (Freshman Season) Did not see any game action and redshirted his initial collegiate season ... joined the program as a walk...

iuhoosiers.com

Anthony Chung - Football - Indiana University Athletics

Anthony Chung (31) DB - 2023 (Freshman Season) Did not see any game action and redshirted his initial collegiate season ... joined the program as a wal...

iuhoosiers.com

Clay Conner - Football - Indiana University Athletics

Clay Conner (36) DB - 2023 (Freshman Season) Did not see any game action and redshirted his initial collegiate season ... joined the program as a walk-...

iuhoosiers.com

Roman Purcell - Football - Indiana University Athletics

Roman Purcell (19) QB - 2023 (Sophomore Season) Did not see any game action.

iuhoosiers.com

That would probably require them to put on 12 to 23 pounds of muscle in 3 and a half months while also learning the position during the summer (actually probably even more as a decent sized Big Ten level Inside Linebacker usually runs at about 230+ pounds of "good weight" just to survive the battering they sustain over a full Big Ten season) which might be a really Big ask but from what I'm seeing we're extremely thin at that Inside Linebacker position and could use all the help we can get...

If we're counting on Fisher (at Middle Linebacker) to slow down a Big Ten running game we're in deep trouble...

If we can't find someone better at that position the Big Ten teams will average 250+ on the ground against us...

He makes a lot of tackles..., 7+ yards down the field... We need someone who can diagnose the play and stop the run at the line of scrimmage, not 3/4's of the way to a 1st down.

I saw your same observations but imagine acceptable results at LB(MLB)will correlate with bolstering the DL and as the LB's competition settles. I'll wager a Mrs. Grant's son there'll be a couple fisticuffs development during those competitions. In my eye that happens organically and is not all bad. Fierce Competition = IUFB Advancing!

 

[Mark Milton]

If we're counting on Fisher (at Middle Linebacker) to slow down a Big Ten running game we're in deep trouble...

If we can't find someone better at that position the Big Ten teams will average 250+ on the ground against us...

He makes a lot of tackles..., 7+ yards down the field... We need someone who can diagnose the play and stop the run at the line of scrimmage, not 3/4's of the way to a 1st down.

What game(s) are you specifically referring to? Didn't see that at all in the spring game.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Of all the JMU guys that transferred in that you saw play in the spring game, which of those players was worse than a returning player? I didn't see one. I suppose you could argue that Sarratt might be worse than Williams or McCulley, but Sarratt is legit.

Missing out this spring were the two OL (Stephens and Kidwell), the DT (Carpenter) and the linebacker (Walker) was dinged up, who is supposed to be outstanding.

Just going by position group makes things even clearer:

QB: Rourke/Jackson of 2024 is far better than 2023 Sorsby/Jackson;
RB: Black (JMU); Ellison (portal); Lawton (JMU) are better than last year's crew of Lucas, et al;
WR: Sarratt (JMU), Price, McCulley, Cooper, EJ WIliams, Cooper, Cross and Ke'Shawn Williams are light years above last year's group.
OL: Carter/Stephens (JMU)/Katic/Kidwell (JMU)/Wedig might be better than last year's group or it might be a draw, but I will take Stephens, Kidwell, Wedig over Benson all day
DL: Kamara (JMU); West; Carpenter (JMU); Burris, Carr, Tucker will be better than last year's group as a whole with Carter/Blidi/Cox and Lucas gone. Cox and Lucas were not good at all. Kamara might end up being a better pass rusher than Carter and Carpenter/Burris will be far more active in this system. And CJ west is the real deal when you watch him play against really good teams;
LB: We lose Casey, and that's a problem, but Fisher appears to be a quicker version than Casey and active. Not sure he is quick to diagnose as casey tho. Walker is great. He is legit and is an upgrade. Again, two JMU guys who are clearly better than what was on the roster.
CB: Pond is a legit player (another JMU guy). Losing Minor hurts, but Jamier Johnson looked good in spring game. Not sure what to make of Sharpe. I think we have a pretty good shot at being a lot better at the corner position
S: Losing Moore hurts. I think the guys we have that were in for spring looked decent enough, but Moore was damn good.

Point being is that the JMU guys that came in were all upgrades--not even sure it was close. Sad to say, but Allen's staff did not ultimately recruit well enough overall and certainly not consistent enough over the years. Pretty sure the current staff would likely echo that sentiment.

Plus all those JMU guys know the expectations and system. They work too. I think it’s a good thing getting so many guys that know all the things Cigg wants.

 

[76-1]

What game(s) are you specifically referring to? Didn't see that at all in the spring game.

Go watch him against the decent teams they played last Fall.

Same with the rest of them against decent talent... Bringing in a bunch of guys who went one game over .500 against the only decent teams they played can't be considered any kind of a major upgrade in talent. (As I've posted before, JMU only played against 5 decent teams last Fall and they lost to two of them - AF & App. St..., both of whom would have struggled to finish in the upper third of the Big Ten)...

All that said they did win against the teams they should have consistently so that's a foundation to build on but believing they'll be a bunch of world beaters able to match up against top level Big Ten talent is unlikely at best...

Now I like Cignetti and I think he's generally on the right track but I think he's being either disingenuous or foolish if he believes his JMU guys are going to take the Big Ten by storm...

 

[IndyResident16]

Go watch him against the decent teams they played last Fall.

Same with the rest of them against decent talent... Bringing in a bunch of guys who went one game over .500 against the only decent teams they played can't be considered any kind of a major upgrade in talent. (As I've posted before, JMU only played against 5 decent teams last Fall and they lost to two of them - AF & App. St..., both of whom would have struggled to finish in the upper third of the Big Ten)...

All that said they did win against the teams they should have consistently so that's a foundation to build on but believing they'll be a bunch of world beaters able to match up against top level Big Ten talent is unlikely at best...

Now I like Cignetti and I think he's generally on the right track but I think he's being either disingenuous or foolish if he believes his JMU guys are going to take the Big Ten by storm...

The AF game was during a bowl without Cig and other opt outs. Don't put much stock into that.

Put it this way, JMU finished 44th in Sagarin. Only B10 teams to finish higher were Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Maryland, and Wisconsin. They were basically better than every B10 team minus Wisconsin who finished one spot higher. Now I have no clue how that would translate playing out a 9 game conference schedule, but JMU was as good as anybody in the West in a one off game. I'll take his 23 and 24 year old all-conference players any day of the week especially if they're coached by him.

 

[DANC]

Of all the JMU guys that transferred in that you saw play in the spring game, which of those players was worse than a returning player? I didn't see one. I suppose you could argue that Sarratt might be worse than Williams or McCulley, but Sarratt is legit.

Missing out this spring were the two OL (Stephens and Kidwell), the DT (Carpenter) and the linebacker (Walker) was dinged up, who is supposed to be outstanding.

Just going by position group makes things even clearer:

QB: Rourke/Jackson of 2024 is far better than 2023 Sorsby/Jackson;
RB: Black (JMU); Ellison (portal); Lawton (JMU) are better than last year's crew of Lucas, et al;
WR: Sarratt (JMU), Price, McCulley, Cooper, EJ WIliams, Cooper, Cross and Ke'Shawn Williams are light years above last year's group.
OL: Carter/Stephens (JMU)/Katic/Kidwell (JMU)/Wedig might be better than last year's group or it might be a draw, but I will take Stephens, Kidwell, Wedig over Benson all day
DL: Kamara (JMU); West; Carpenter (JMU); Burris, Carr, Tucker will be better than last year's group as a whole with Carter/Blidi/Cox and Lucas gone. Cox and Lucas were not good at all. Kamara might end up being a better pass rusher than Carter and Carpenter/Burris will be far more active in this system. And CJ west is the real deal when you watch him play against really good teams;
LB: We lose Casey, and that's a problem, but Fisher appears to be a quicker version than Casey and active. Not sure he is quick to diagnose as casey tho. Walker is great. He is legit and is an upgrade. Again, two JMU guys who are clearly better than what was on the roster.
CB: Pond is a legit player (another JMU guy). Losing Minor hurts, but Jamier Johnson looked good in spring game. Not sure what to make of Sharpe. I think we have a pretty good shot at being a lot better at the corner position
S: Losing Moore hurts. I think the guys we have that were in for spring looked decent enough, but Moore was damn good.

Point being is that the JMU guys that came in were all upgrades--not even sure it was close. Sad to say, but Allen's staff did not ultimately recruit well enough overall and certainly not consistent enough over the years. Pretty sure the current staff would likely echo that sentiment.

Ironic, since Allen's later classes were considered pretty good, weren't they?

I'm anxious to see our LBs. I agree with 76-1 that Fisher didn't look all that great in the bowl game, but maybe there were other factors.

Our DBs last year were awful, partly due to a weak pass rush. I certainly don't think we'll be any worse there

 

[DANC]

If we're counting on Fisher (at Middle Linebacker) to slow down a Big Ten running game we're in deep trouble...

If we can't find someone better at that position the Big Ten teams will average 250+ on the ground against us...

He makes a lot of tackles..., 7+ yards down the field... We need someone who can diagnose the play and stop the run at the line of scrimmage, not 3/4's of the way to a 1st down.

Hopefully he'll have a better DL in front of him. Cig is high on him, so it will be interesting.

Time for some of Allen's LB recruits to up their game.

 

[76-1]

The AF game was during a bowl without Cig and other opt outs. Don't put much stock into that.

Put it this way, JMU finished 44th in Sagarin. Only B10 teams to finish higher were Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Maryland, and Wisconsin. They were basically better than every B10 team minus Wisconsin who finished one spot higher. Now I have no clue how that would translate playing out a 9 game conference schedule, but JMU was as good as anybody in the West in a one off game. I'll take his 23 and 24 year old all-conference players any day of the week especially if they're coached by him.

Hope you're right and I'm wrong... Just don't see it...

 

[red hornet]

CJ West, Carpenter automatically makes Aiden Fisher et al more effective LBs, being able to scrap the action at the LOS.

 

[IU_Hickory]

Go watch him against the decent teams they played last Fall.

Same with the rest of them against decent talent... Bringing in a bunch of guys who went one game over .500 against the only decent teams they played can't be considered any kind of a major upgrade in talent. (As I've posted before, JMU only played against 5 decent teams last Fall and they lost to two of them - AF & App. St..., both of whom would have struggled to finish in the upper third of the Big Ten)...

All that said they did win against the teams they should have consistently so that's a foundation to build on but believing they'll be a bunch of world beaters able to match up against top level Big Ten talent is unlikely at best...

Now I like Cignetti and I think he's generally on the right track but I think he's being either disingenuous or foolish if he believes his JMU guys are going to take the Big Ten by storm...

If you take the best from 2 different mediocre rosters (IU and JMU) then at the very least you have better depth even if it's not better top end talent.

Better depth generally equals better competition and pushing each other to improve. I think most would agree we also have better coaching.

With so many changes, it will be hard to guess where this team will place in the big ten this fall but I'm guessing we have a chance to get to a bowl game.

 

[sparkeyreturns]

Hope you're right and I'm wrong... Just don't see it...

Dude I watched highlights of the Virginia game and outside of a blocked punt I saw the same thing as in the bowl game and the spring game. Im just not getting it. Sadly they had a senior linebacker that looked like a stud so they did have linebacker play, just not from this dude.

 

[76-1]

Dude I watched highlights of the Virginia game and outside of a blocked punt I saw the same thing as in the bowl game and the spring game. Im just not getting it. Sadly they had a senior linebacker that looked like a stud so they did have linebacker play, just not from this dude.

And Virginia wasn't actually very good last Fall (3-9)...

 

[sparkeyreturns]

And Virginia wasn't actually very good last Fall (3-9)...

Agreed. They were trash.

 

[DANC]

Agreed. They were trash.

You're harshing my buzz, man....

 

[OpenWheels]

You're harshing my buzz, man....

That's the old bong water. Gotta change it.

I learned that at IU, btw.
.

 

[IUgradman]

I am optimistic about CCC. Not since Hoeppner has IU hired a proven head coach, albeit at the lower level.

 

[DANC]

That's the old bong water. Gotta change it.

I learned that at IU, btw.
.

Guy on my floor actually drank bong water on a dare.

Ick.

 

[Mark Milton]

Guy on my floor actually drank bong water on a dare.

Ick.

There's a lot of screwed up stuff. In 5th grade, there was a kid in my class-- we will call him Frank. Frank had pretty fine metal scooby doo lunch box and a very large regular thermos that he would bring to school. I had a sweet Seattle Seahawks lunch box and my buddy who lived across the street had a killer Six Million dollar man lunch box. Anyway, in Frank's thermos every day was a steaming 10oz of hot dog water. Frank loved to drink warm hot dog water, so his mom boiled hot dogs every day and saved the water and put it into his thermos. I'm wondering if Frank is your guy @DANC?

 

[DANC]

There's a lot of screwed up stuff. In 5th grade, there was a kid in my class-- we will call him Frank. Frank had pretty fine metal scooby doo lunch box and a very large regular thermos that he would bring to school. I had a sweet Seattle Seahawks lunch box and my buddy who lived across the street had a killer Six Million dollar man lunch box. Anyway, in Frank's thermos every day was a steaming 10oz of hot dog water. Frank loved to drink warm hot dog water, so his mom boiled hot dogs every day and saved the water and put it into his thermos. I'm wondering if Frank is your guy @DANC?

Maybe. This guy was in Teter in 78-79 where I was an RA.

He's a doctor now......

 

[4IUSox2]

What about the MLB from Arkansas, Kaiden Turner, who had some starts late in the ‘22 season as a true frosh? Is he still around? Can’t say I recall him last season.

 

[red hornet]

Yes, he's a R-Soph. LB.

 

[76-1]

I'm actually really quite surprised that LB would be a weakness. Our new DC was an excellent LB up at BsU and I was hoping that would translate to some great LB play here...

Oh well..., we still have summer workouts and Fall Camp to find a MLB who can diagnose the play and fill the hole Before the RB gets 7 yards down the field..

 

[OpenWheels]

I think it was Kaiden in the spring game I thought at least laid a decent thump when he did get in on a play. I thought from that he was heavier than Aiden, buts he's lighter according to the roster.
I think now that we've added some, and dline, we won't be too bad. Coaches believe in Aiden, and we have a little depth. We've just had a couple more recent real good mlb. They can't all be the same level.
I'm no longer worried. That's coach's job.

 

[sparkeyreturns]

You're harshing my buzz, man....

lol, yeah I am coming off negative. I am still thrilled with this staff.

 

[sparkeyreturns]

What about the MLB from Arkansas, Kaiden Turner, who had some starts late in the ‘22 season as a true frosh? Is he still around? Can’t say I recall him last season.

I think he is backup. I actually thought he looked decent in the spring game. I was high on him out of highschool as he reminded me a lot of Mcfadden.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

I think he is backup. I actually thought he looked decent in the spring game. I was high on him out of highschool as he reminded me a lot of Mcfadden.

I think all our LBs looked small....the QB dwarfed them....but I agree that KT looked pretty active........