...after 3 days of Spring practice. This is messed up.
Georgia State Head Coach abandons team...
- Thread starter Rags to Roses
- Start date
Spring practice has already started?
Any players we want? lol
Any players we want? lol
I can never argue to the portal when stuff like this happens.
If there are limits to the portal in the future, I’d love to see them applied to coaches too. Won’t happen of course but just saying.
If there are limits to the portal in the future, I’d love to see them applied to coaches too. Won’t happen of course but just saying.
the issue with that is how do you set a date when you can't steal another team's coach?
Say Feb 10th is the last day that coaches can leave a school. What happens when another school comes and takes a coach or multiple coaches on that day....is that school then out of luck because they can't take someone else's coach?
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Yea, agree, no way to stop coaches.
You can't stop them but that is where buyouts come in. If I were an AD I would increase buyout for the Spring practice period to avoid this situation.
At GA State?
Where do you draw the line on asking for a buyout? This ain't in Athens . . . or even Starkville.
you only make it ridiculous at certain critical periods like during Spring Season. Call it a dishonor penalty. If anyone won't agree to such a targeted penalty payment (for a departure timing that should never happen) then you don't want to hire them.
Yeah but GA State?
I mean what if the difference in salaries is gargantuan? Shawn Elliot has toiled in the trenches for a long time. He's paid his dues. Maybe this is his one chance to get out.
How you'd ever get this by antitrust lawyers is beyond me.
I don’t know anything about this situation, but it completely sucks. Sucks for his players. Sucks for his assistants. Sucks for his administration. Sucks for the fans. This is a man of zero integrity.
Zero integrity? I dunno. Perhaps he is just a man with a family to support and he is doing his best to latch-on to a good opportunity and a brighter future.
like you, I don't know anything about the situation, but I can see what may be his viewpoint.
like you, I don't know anything about the situation, but I can see what may be his viewpoint.
If he couldn’t support his family, he had no damn business being a coach to begin with. A helluva lot of people (besides his family) were depending on him. He basically just told them all to “F off - I’m getting my bag.”
There’s never been a single coach in the history of humanity that didn’t expect to make sacrifices for the betterment of the team. That’s what they all expect and preach. This dude is fake and I hope he fails spectacularly.
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Stop beating around the bush and tell us how you really feel. I guess he can scratch you off his Christmas card list? 
Yep. I probably won’t send him one this year either. 😂Stop beating around the bush and tell us how you really feel. I guess he can scratch you off his Christmas card list?
Wrong coach. That was Trent Miles.
You won’t be able to stop players at some point either.
Welcome to Portal World!
Nobody stays long!
Nobody eats their vegetables!
Nobody cleans their room!
Err’body gets exactly what they think they want!
Sign up now for your next trip!
Be careful on the way back out! There IS a line.
Nobody stays long!
Nobody eats their vegetables!
Nobody cleans their room!
Err’body gets exactly what they think they want!
Sign up now for your next trip!
Be careful on the way back out! There IS a line.
If penalty not workable can always institute a garden leave requirement in contracts that requires them to sit sit out for 60-90 days (while still getting their salary during that period) after giving notice. Could put language in that leave is waivable ant choice of either party at the end of season so it doesn’t stop them from moving to a new school coaching opportunity
No way you could get all the program's together to do that.
Elliott went from South Carolina's OL coach to HC at GA State. Prior to that he was at Appalachian State.
Elliott's move to South Carolina is wholly because of the difference in P4 football and nonP4 football. A step back to get to move. He made $811k as HC at GA State and will make $750 at South Carolina. It ain't about the money. It's about the opportunity.
No way you could get all the program's together to do that.
Maybe, maybe not. It is a standard in the segment of the economy I work in so it could happen.
Maybe, maybe not. It is a standard in the segment of the economy I work in so it could happen.
Which industry is that? I did some employment law work, with nondisclosures and run-of-mill restrictive covenants. But I know no industry other than sports where buyouts are standard practice. Sure, I'm retired but it hasn't been that long.
Where's @MyTeamIsOnTheFloor?
It's probably more of a power structure thing.
Like, I can't see anything patently illegal in contracting with an executive that says "if we fire you without cause before the term is up, we owe you X% of the remainder of the contract. If you quit the position without cause before the term is up, you owe us X% of the remainder of the contract."
Where I'm saying it's a power structure thing, I mean because of the investments schools are making in these coaches and because the coach in college football is a HUGE part of the program identity, recruiting, & success, it makes sense to protect your investment from the school's perspective, as well as to protect yourself from the coach's perspective before you uproot your family to move across the country.
Maybe the Georgia State guy had a buddy on staff that is likely to get the job since time is short...
Mostly kidding, but
Some Vanderbilt fans in 2010 accused Bobby Johnson of waiting until mid July when he announced his retirement, so that his long time top assistant and friend Robbie Caldwell would get the head gig and the rest of the staff also could stay. He said he was burned out and I think he wasn't lying, but the timing was unusual. The school had little choice but name Caldwell and continue.
Mostly kidding, but
Some Vanderbilt fans in 2010 accused Bobby Johnson of waiting until mid July when he announced his retirement, so that his long time top assistant and friend Robbie Caldwell would get the head gig and the rest of the staff also could stay. He said he was burned out and I think he wasn't lying, but the timing was unusual. The school had little choice but name Caldwell and continue.
Understood. I practiced for 40 years and never ran into it. I had a technology law practice, so I think I'd have run into it once in a while.
That said, MTIOTF had an employment law practice with a big firm, so if anybody's seen this it's him.
If I remember correctly, Cigs buyout for leaving is much lower than IU's buyout for booting him.
Is that a common practice to get a contract signed by a guy you really want?
It’s common that the coach leave buyout is less than a termination buyout if that’s what you are asking. Like Deboar buyout was 12 million by Alabama. If he was fired it looks like 26 mill. Cigs is 8 mill and 20 mill.
I think most of the contract is in the coach's favor. Every school thinks they got their guy and throw whatever it takes to get them...at least those playing to win
I work in investment management where most every professional - at a bulge bracket bank, hedge fund, etc - has an employment contract that requires a garden leave. We get paid our base salary if we leave but cannot start working for a new employer until the garden leave period is complete. They are effectively non-compete clauses.
The law and the results are inconsistent.
One rule is that courts enforcing “non-compete” agreements won’t enforce “unreasonable” geographic or durational terms, or pure penalties, even in states where they are otherwise enforceable. The general idea is to prevent “unfair” competition, not to restrict regular business competition. So if I hire you and train you and expose you to my client base, it’s fair to prevent you from competing against me for a reasonable time when we break up.
That does not directly translate to coach buy-outs, but they are generally enforceable, if they are not ruled to be a penalty under whatever state law is being applied. Ask Gerry DiNardo. In April 1999, the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld a lower court decision to enforce the buy out in his contract with Vanderbilt, and DiNardo had to pay.
Again, though, it is sort of a fairness balance more than just a rigid application of contract law.
Case by case. Not all circumstances are equal. It is an area where good lawyers with experience In understanding the potential damages can help either side. Costs of making replacement hires vary, and would have impact. Damage to future results would be speculative. The trade of “we pay you if we fire you” for “you pay us if you quit” has legal import and value.
The schools typically pay off the deals and consider it the cost of doing business, but not always.
One rule is that courts enforcing “non-compete” agreements won’t enforce “unreasonable” geographic or durational terms, or pure penalties, even in states where they are otherwise enforceable. The general idea is to prevent “unfair” competition, not to restrict regular business competition. So if I hire you and train you and expose you to my client base, it’s fair to prevent you from competing against me for a reasonable time when we break up.
That does not directly translate to coach buy-outs, but they are generally enforceable, if they are not ruled to be a penalty under whatever state law is being applied. Ask Gerry DiNardo. In April 1999, the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld a lower court decision to enforce the buy out in his contract with Vanderbilt, and DiNardo had to pay.
Again, though, it is sort of a fairness balance more than just a rigid application of contract law.
Case by case. Not all circumstances are equal. It is an area where good lawyers with experience In understanding the potential damages can help either side. Costs of making replacement hires vary, and would have impact. Damage to future results would be speculative. The trade of “we pay you if we fire you” for “you pay us if you quit” has legal import and value.
The schools typically pay off the deals and consider it the cost of doing business, but not always.
Non-compete clauses I get. Your "garden leave" is in essence how we treated severance agreements.
But then when I practiced, employers had the upper hand.
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Integrity, is that still a thing?
It doesn't seem there is much integrity anymore. I was called by an Indiana HS to take their job one week before the season started telling me money was no object. I told them next season I would talk to them if the job was still available. I stayed at Wayne for two more years.
There are some things money can't buy, but they are
far are few between.
