Not exactly
Liberals are the blame for some of what's wrong, but not all of it. And they don't "make" everyone hate America. But Howard Zinn and the millions of people who buy his schtick without question play a role, maybe a huge role.
Everybody wants to join a tribe
- Thread starter CO. Hoosier
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Not exactly
Liberals are the blame for some of what's wrong, but not all of it. And they don't "make" everyone hate America. But Howard Zinn and the millions of people who buy his schtick without question play a role, maybe a huge role.
That's probably true.
I won't deny profiling happens.
But consider this. The description of the people who have been stealing packages from front porches in my neighborhood are that they are black. One nearby armed robbery was done by "dark skinned" young males. You are a cop assigned to patrol this area. Knowing the crime history, what and who would attract your attention?
I can't speak for Goat, but believe me, I don't confuse "Christian" and "conservative". I don't believe "conservatives" act even remotely "Christian". I do believe "conservatives" have adopted the label of being "Christian" as an excuse for everything they do and wall to hide behind when attacked.
You can't do that to me!!! I'm a Christian.
You can't talk like that to me!!! You must hate Christians!!!
You can't look at me like that!!! You're oppressing Christians!!!
I don't need proof for what I said!!! I love Jesus!!!
People want to be winners.
The ISIS recruiting message directed at the Western world exploits these two human motivations. It is very effective. Westerners, including young Americans are joining ISIS or becoming domestic ISIS sympathizers in unprecedented numbers.
There are a number of reasons for this. Most of those stem from the individual backgrounds and considerations. But there is one commonality that I think plays a role, and for some people a very important role. The USA brand is diminished. It is being intentionally diminished. Maybe it is irretrievably diminished. The recent celebration of 50 years after Selma gives us a stark evidence of this.
Compare this:
With this:
Tribes have symbols, banners, and physical means for identification. These symbols include everything from a Hoosiers jersey, to the Crips and Bloods gang colors. These symbols are proudly displayed by members of the tribe. There are no USA tribe symbols in the 2015 photo. There are many in the 1965 photo. What has changed?
I think the Howard Zinn-inspired "blame America first" message is having an effect. For many of us, the effect is easily overcome with knowledge and beliefs in who we are. For some others, the effect is profound. In some quarters, we have prohibited the display of the Stars and Stripes believing it to be "exclusionary" or "controversial". That notion is absolutely nuts. We are destroying our national unity in favor of smaller and isolated tribes centered around such things as race, political beliefs, religion and even the environment. The tribes are not in a shooting war, but we certainly are in a verbal pushing and shoving match. Many of us snap at the other tribes at the slightest provocation. In some cases we will use a demonstrable untruth or false flag to coalesce into gangs or tribes.
Enter the ISIS tribe. ISIS has a fertile field in which to plant its seeds.
I sometimes wonder who does more to create this tribe mentality. Guys like Howard Zinn or the likes of Rush and Beck. I was talking to a fairly smart guy the other day, a retired CFO for a large company, who believes with conviction that Barak Obama "will one day be proven to be a sleeper agent for Al Qaeda".
How can an intelligent person think that? The only answer I can come up with is that America does offer a fertile field in which to plant seeds. But who is doing the planting and who makes up the fertile field?
I think your post is evidence of my point
We are more divided. Part of the reason for the division is the diversity, divisiveness, and separations we impose on ourselves. There are a number of reasons for this. But I think people like Rush and Beck are the result, not the cause. Zinn is different. His views diminish the brand millions of us grew up under and his views have infected many different cultural identifiers.
Howard Zinn forced people to think critically about some things that we used to take for granted. I wouldn't call it a schtick. And even if that type of "schtick" leads to a tarnished American brand, that's probably a good thing. We can't make our country better if we don't face up to its faults.
It sounds like you'd rather have a populace of robots, chanting "USA! USA!" while ignoring how they are getting shafted by the system*.
*Purposefully hyperbolic.
Got it
Feeling guilty is an indulgence. Correcting faults is necessary. Not knowing the difference and why one is bad and one isn't is a shame. We are being consumed with shame. Believing claims about microagression and accepting white privilege as an excuse for what ails us is the former, not the latter.
Feeling guilty is an indulgence. Correcting faults is necessary. Not knowing the difference and why one is bad and one isn't is a shame. We are being consumed with shame. Believing claims about microagression and accepting white privilege as an excuse for what ails us is the former, not the latter.
No, you don't.
I see now your problem. You think critical and deconstructive history is about feeling shame. I suppose you probably have a similar opinion of any academic study that's rooted in feminist and postmodern thought, yes?
But that's not the case. If it makes you feel shame or guilt, that's on you. The purpose of such analysis isn't to cause those feelings, but to force people to look at the world differently, and to see if we can discover things - both good and bad - that we might have missed before because of our framing biases.
That's not to say that there are no people who would want to cause shame or guilt. They are out there, for sure. But for the most part, those feelings are a reaction to such research, not the goal of it.
Nope
I don't think what you said I think. I do think what you said I don't think. In any event, I don't value past negative history or behaviors the way you do.
I don't think what you said I think. I do think what you said I don't think. In any event, I don't value past negative history or behaviors the way you do.
MIchelle Obama proves the point much better than I can say it.
Here is an excerpt from her art museum dedication speech last week:
“You see, there are so many kids in this country who look at places like museums and concert halls and other cultural centers and they think to themselves, well, that’s not a place for me, for someone who looks like me, for someone who comes from my neighborhood. In fact, I guarantee you that right now, there are kids living less than a mile from here who would never in a million years dream that they would be welcome in this museum.
“And growing up on the South Side of Chicago, I was one of those kids myself. So I know that feeling of not belonging in a place like this. And today, as first lady I know how that feeling limits the horizons of far too many of our young people."
This question is answered with this passage from her speech. Kids, and thus adults, believe this because that is what they are TAUGHT! I heartily agree that teaching with emphasis on our historical racism and similar faults indeed "forces people to look at the world differently". That is not a good thing. It causes people to continue battles that should remain in our past. Teaching kids that years ago colored people couldn't use the same bathroom as whites, or drink from the same water fountain, but we have gotten past that and the future is bright, is much different from teaching that racism still oppresses you and you must continue the struggle.
During the Baltimore riots, I heard a young black man being interviewed. He was articulate, well dressed, and did not have any gang-banger indicators. When asked why he was demonstrating, his answer was to fight being oppressed. I think he was taught that he was oppressed. That is a problem. It all starts with education. Education based upon a Howard Zinn-inspired message won't get the job done. We can have all the anti-discrimination laws we want, and we can do all the black community outreach we can, but all of that is useless so long as kids keep learning that they are oppressed. The laws and outreach will always be futile.
Better would to teach kids about Jackie Robinson. He endured much so those that followed him wouldn't have to. The purveyors of the class and racial divide won't teach that message. Instead they teach kids that the Jackie Robinson story will never end.
I don't believe in rose colored glasses. The more critical we are of ourselves and our country the better we learn. It is when we fail to learn from our mistakes that we repeat them.
Isn't Michelle Obama saying the "exclusion" is in the minds of kids like herself at one point in her life rather than the urban institutions themselves?
That is the way I took it,
But I think she was also lecturing her audience that they should strive to change those attitudes in kids. But, so long as the kids are taught about oppression and the awful history of slavery is still with them, and some people see that message as a way to accumulate power and influence, all the minority outreach from the white museum folks will be futile.
I think that is hogwash
Being constantly critical of ourselves and our country serves only to deprive millions people of hope and inspiration. All we are teaching is how to be hopeless victims.
That isn't to say that we shouldn't correct specific faults. But zeroing in on specifics is one thing. Fostering the general notion that African Americans are victims and there is "still a lot of work to do" is another.
The proof is in the pudding. We now know that statistically speaking, first and second generation black African and Haitian immigrants generally do better economically and socially than do African Americans. Part of the difference is that the immigrants haven't had hope and inspiration stripped away through our educational system.
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